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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: A request for help...

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  • Nick Lawrance
    From Graham and I need some real and tangible experiences of something bigger than me in order to prevent a lapse into the kind of doubts and feelings of
    Message 1 of 26 , May 22 4:26 PM
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      From Graham

      and I need some real and tangible experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a lapse into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored' by God that have so troubled me in the past.
      ...............
      If you want some real and tangible experiences I would suggest that you obtain the Gospel of Thomas and then do what it instructs you to do; i.e attempt to interpret/put into practice what it teaches in the 114 sayings. In fact you won't have to go through all 114, hopefully you should have experiences much sooner than that but you have to into each saying deep and I mean deep.
       
      Nick 
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 9:58 PM
      Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: A request for help...

      Hello grahambraithwaite

      On 05/22/05, you wrote:

      > Dear Gaye,
      >
      > Many thanks for getting in touch with me, and for the kind words of
      > support in your message. It's good to know that there are people out
      > there who are prepared to sympathize with someone like myself who
      > has had a bad time of it with mainstream religion, and I'm grateful
      > that you took the time to show that.
      >
      > One of the biggest problems that I'm having is that I feel very,
      > very isolated and simply don't know what to do next. I've no idea
      > exactly how I should pray anymore, and I need some real and tangible
      > experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a
      > lapse into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored'
      > by God that have so troubled me in the past.
      >
      > Im being helped very much by the book that I mentioned in my
      > previous despatch, and keep nipping back into it at various times
      > during the day to get another quick 'fix' of encouragement and
      > faith. I shoukld imagine that I'll have it finished by the end of
      > this week, but I'll be cross-reference quotes and pieces of info
      > from it for quite some time yet I think, so it's going to be with me
      > for quite a while.
      >
      > I'll close here before I detain you any longer, but thank you again
      > for getting in touch, and I look forward to hearing from you again.
      > By the way, I'm in Yeadon near Leeds. Whereabouts in England are
      > you?
      >
      > best regards,
      > Graham

      Go to the Website of this group, there is a list of recommended
      readings.  Reading the original scriptures in THE GNOSTIC BIBLE or
      THE NAJ HAMADI LIBRARY is a good exercise. 

      Regards
      --
      Mike Leavitt  ac998@...



    • gaye verrall
      Dear Graham, Thanks for responding to me so kindly. I am in London and have been for 20 years now. I too have read this book you are reading and really lapped
      Message 2 of 26 , May 23 5:37 AM
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        Dear Graham,
        Thanks for responding to me so kindly. I am in London and have been for 20 years now.
        I too have read this book you are reading and really lapped it up. It put me in touch with a
        lot of ideas and like yourself I made notes and did a bit of research.
        It really did feed me for weeks. A great find.
        Currently I am really seeking to get deeper inside and find out who or what I/we really are
        all about. I keep asking Who is this?...Who is suffering? Who is seeeing? etc etc
        What I found is that there is no answer, just a silence that has an encouraging depth to it.
        The joy is, an intuitive sense of a Self perceived to be the Self in every living thing.
        I find the past dissolving, doubt and anxiety declining....and it requires no real effort.
        Maybe, Graham, you might find something of help to you in such questioning.
        If not, I hope that I have not gone on too much.
        I wish you well.
        Take care,
        Gaye.

        Mike Leavitt <ac998@...> wrote:
        Hello grahambraithwaite

        On 05/22/05, you wrote:

        > Dear Gaye,
        >
        > Many thanks for getting in touch with me, and for the kind words of
        > support in your message. It's good to know that there are people out
        > there who are prepared to sympathize with someone like myself who
        > has had a bad time of it with mainstream religion, and I'm grateful
        > that you took the time to show that.
        >
        > One of the biggest problems that I'm having is that I feel very,
        > very isolated and simply don't know what to do next. I've no idea
        > exactly how I should pray anymore, and I need some real and tangible
        > experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a
        > lapse into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored'
        > by God that have so troubled me in the past.
        >
        > Im being helped very much by the book that I mentioned in my
        > previous despatch, and keep nipping back into it at various times
        > during the day to get another quick 'fix' of encouragement and
        > faith. I shoukld imagine that I'll have it finished by the end of
        > this week, but I'll be cross-reference quotes and pieces of info
        > from it for quite some time yet I think, so it's going to be with me
        > for quite a while.
        >
        > I'll close here before I detain you any longer, but thank you again
        > for getting in touch, and I look forward to hearing from you again.
        > By the way, I'm in Yeadon near Leeds. Whereabouts in England are
        > you?
        >
        > best regards,
        > Graham

        Go to the Website of this group, there is a list of recommended
        readings.  Reading the original scriptures in THE GNOSTIC BIBLE or
        THE NAJ HAMADI LIBRARY is a good exercise. 

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt  ac998@...




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      • pmcvflag
        Hey Graham and Gaye, welcome to the group. This book as well as the other one by these authors, The Jesus Mysteries, has been a topic here before but it had
        Message 3 of 26 , May 23 10:05 PM
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          Hey Graham and Gaye, welcome to the group.

          This book as well as the other one by these authors, The Jesus
          Mysteries, has been a topic here before but it had kind of disappeared
          for a bit. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the states the
          books were pretty popular. We heard quite a few people who expressed
          the same sentiment as you, Graham, in having found these books in a
          time when they were falling away from evangelical movements that they
          felt had literally harmed them in some way.

          Graham, you stated....

          >>>"One of the biggest problems that I'm having is that I feel very,
          very isolated and simply don't know what to do next. I've no idea
          exactly how I should pray anymore, and I need some real and tangible
          experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a lapse
          into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored' by God
          that have so troubled me in the past."<<<

          You may be interested to know that a feeling of isolation is almost a
          sort of hallmark of Gnosticism. In fact, some scholors used to even
          include this as part of the very definition of the word "Gnosticism",
          though this has fallen out of favor with more recent critical
          understanding of the historical movements. All the same, one of the
          books in the Nag Hammadi library is even called "Allogenes", which
          means the "Stranger" or "Alien". Gnostics consider the spirit to be
          something kind of alien and isolated in the world, and the function
          of "Gnosis" is to get past that flaw of existance.

          >>"Im being helped very much by the book that I mentioned in my
          previous despatch, and keep nipping back into it at various times
          during the day to get another quick 'fix' of encouragement and faith.
          I shoukld imagine that I'll have it finished by the end of this week,
          but I'll be cross-reference quotes and pieces of info from it for
          quite some time yet I think, so it's going to be with me for quite a
          while."<<<

          Feel free to bring up your impressions of the book here in the group
          for discussion. I think you will find that the topics the book offer
          will be revisited here in any event. One thing you may be surprised to
          learn as time goes on is just how different your understanding of
          Gnosticism may become from what your first impressions may be based on
          this book. This change may include your notions of faith, and prayer.
          The Gnostic view of spirituality sometimes may seem so different from
          what modern Christians are used to that they find it hard to
          understand. This is because there are base assumptions within modern
          Christianity that are so intrinsic that even people who have left the
          church find it hard to view the same passages in the different light
          that earlier Christians sometimes saw them in. The function of faith
          as salvation is one of those differences, the destinction between the
          Demiurge and the infinite "Source" is another, and there are many more.

          Having said that, I would like to welcome all our new members, and to
          give this one piece of advice as we talk about the subject of
          Gnosticism... try not to see it from the context of modern
          Christianity. Be aware that even though many terms that exist in
          modern Christianity also exist in Gnosticism (e.g. Logos, "God", and
          Father) they may have very different meanings for these traditional
          Gnostic groups.

          PMCV
        • gaye verrall
          Hi, Thanks for the welcome to the group and for all the work you put in to helping to cultivate understanding of the faith. Much appreciated. Best wishes,
          Message 4 of 26 , May 24 2:05 AM
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            Hi,
            Thanks for the welcome to the group and for all the work you put in to
            helping to cultivate understanding of the faith.
            Much appreciated.
            Best wishes,
            Gaye.

            pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            Hey Graham and Gaye, welcome to the group.

            This book as well as the other one by these authors, The Jesus
            Mysteries, has been a topic here before but it had kind of disappeared
            for a bit. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the states the
            books were pretty popular. We heard quite a few people who expressed
            the same sentiment as you, Graham, in having found these books in a
            time when they were falling away from evangelical movements that they
            felt had literally harmed them in some way.

            Graham, you stated....

            >>>"One of the biggest problems that I'm having is that I feel very,
            very isolated and simply don't know what to do next. I've no idea
            exactly how I should pray anymore, and I need some real and tangible
            experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a lapse
            into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored' by God
            that have so troubled me in the past."<<<

            You may be interested to know that a feeling of isolation is almost a
            sort of hallmark of Gnosticism. In fact, some scholors used to even
            include this as part of the very definition of the word "Gnosticism",
            though this has fallen out of favor with more recent critical
            understanding of the historical movements. All the same, one of the
            books in the Nag Hammadi library is even called "Allogenes", which
            means the "Stranger" or "Alien". Gnostics consider the spirit to be
            something kind of alien and isolated in the world, and the function
            of "Gnosis" is to get past that flaw of existance.

            >>"Im being helped very much by the book that I mentioned in my
            previous despatch, and keep nipping back into it at various times
            during the day to get another quick 'fix' of encouragement and faith.
            I shoukld imagine that I'll have it finished by the end of this week,
            but I'll be cross-reference quotes and pieces of info from it for
            quite some time yet I think, so it's going to be with me for quite a
            while."<<<

            Feel free to bring up your impressions of the book here in the group
            for discussion. I think you will find that the topics the book offer
            will be revisited here in any event. One thing you may be surprised to
            learn as time goes on is just how different your understanding of
            Gnosticism may become from what your first impressions may be based on
            this book. This change may include your notions of faith, and prayer.
            The Gnostic view of spirituality sometimes may seem so different from
            what modern Christians are used to that they find it hard to
            understand. This is because there are base assumptions within modern
            Christianity that are so intrinsic that even people who have left the
            church find it hard to view the same passages in the different light
            that earlier Christians sometimes saw them in. The function of faith
            as salvation is one of those differences, the destinction between the
            Demiurge and the infinite "Source" is another, and there are many more.

            Having said that, I would like to welcome all our new members, and to
            give this one piece of advice as we talk about the subject of
            Gnosticism... try not to see it from the context of modern
            Christianity. Be aware that even though many terms that exist in
            modern Christianity also exist in Gnosticism (e.g. Logos, "God", and
            Father) they may have very different meanings for these traditional
            Gnostic groups.

            PMCV



            Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

          • David Wilson
            Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for open discussion? or is anyone
            Message 5 of 26 , May 24 5:31 AM
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              Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for open discussion? or is anyone up for that?

              The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those which have direct relations with Gnosticism.

              sinicerely,

              David


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            • Graham Braithwaite
              Dear PMCV, Like Gaye I want to say thank you for welcoming us to the group. I ve been inundated with replies from lots of very helpful and well meaning people,
              Message 6 of 26 , May 24 8:28 AM
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                Dear PMCV,
                 
                Like Gaye I want to say thank you for welcoming us to the group. I've been inundated with replies from lots of very helpful and well meaning people, and I hope you'll all appreciate the fact tht my replies may be quite short due to the number of 'thank you notes' that I feel I msut write.
                 
                Thank you also for taking the time to write such a long e-mail with so many interesting points. I was very interested in what you had to say about my feeling of isolation, and I hope I didn't give the impression that I had become something of a 'reluctant hermit' who misses the bright lights and the nights out and generall just wants to be where the sin is! The truth is that this feeling of being somehow 'different' from others has been with me for as long as I can remember - right back even into my childhood - so although I'm well used to ploughing a lone spiritual furrow, it gives me great encouragement that there are others like me who have experienced the same kind of things.
                 
                As I mentioned earlier, I have many people to write to, so I hope you'll understand if I foreshorten this reply at this point, but thank you very much again for taking the time out to reply, and I hope to come across you once again in the weeks and months to come.
                 
                best regards.
                Graham    

                 
                On 5/24/05, gaye verrall <gayeverrall@...> wrote:
                Hi,
                Thanks for the welcome to the group and for all the work you put in to
                helping to cultivate understanding of the faith.
                Much appreciated.
                Best wishes,
                Gaye.


                pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                Hey Graham and Gaye, welcome to the group.

                This book as well as the other one by these authors, The Jesus
                Mysteries, has been a topic here before but it had kind of disappeared
                for a bit. I don't know about elsewhere, but here in the states the
                books were pretty popular. We heard quite a few people who expressed
                the same sentiment as you, Graham, in having found these books in a
                time when they were falling away from evangelical movements that they
                felt had literally harmed them in some way.

                Graham, you stated....

                >>>"One of the biggest problems that I'm having is that I feel very,
                very isolated and simply don't know what to do next. I've no idea
                exactly how I should pray anymore, and I need some real and tangible
                experiences of something 'bigger' than me in order to prevent a lapse
                into the kind of doubts and feelings of simply being 'ignored' by God
                that have so troubled me in the past."<<<

                You may be interested to know that a feeling of isolation is almost a
                sort of hallmark of Gnosticism. In fact, some scholors used to even
                include this as part of the very definition of the word "Gnosticism",
                though this has fallen out of favor with more recent critical
                understanding of the historical movements. All the same, one of the
                books in the Nag Hammadi library is even called "Allogenes", which
                means the "Stranger" or "Alien". Gnostics consider the spirit to be
                something kind of alien and isolated in the world, and the function
                of "Gnosis" is to get past that flaw of existance.

                >>"Im being helped very much by the book that I mentioned in my
                previous despatch, and keep nipping back into it at various times
                during the day to get another quick 'fix' of encouragement and faith.
                I shoukld imagine that I'll have it finished by the end of this week,
                but I'll be cross-reference quotes and pieces of info from it for
                quite some time yet I think, so it's going to be with me for quite a
                while."<<<

                Feel free to bring up your impressions of the book here in the group
                for discussion. I think you will find that the topics the book offer
                will be revisited here in any event. One thing you may be surprised to
                learn as time goes on is just how different your understanding of
                Gnosticism may become from what your first impressions may be based on
                this book. This change may include your notions of faith, and prayer.
                The Gnostic view of spirituality sometimes may seem so different from
                what modern Christians are used to that they find it hard to
                understand. This is because there are base assumptions within modern
                Christianity that are so intrinsic that even people who have left the
                church find it hard to view the same passages in the different light
                that earlier Christians sometimes saw them in. The function of faith
                as salvation is one of those differences, the destinction between the
                Demiurge and the infinite "Source" is another, and there are many more.

                Having said that, I would like to welcome all our new members, and to
                give this one piece of advice as we talk about the subject of
                Gnosticism... try not to see it from the context of modern
                Christianity. Be aware that even though many terms that exist in
                modern Christianity also exist in Gnosticism (e.g. Logos, "God", and
                Father) they may have very different meanings for these traditional
                Gnostic groups.

                PMCV



                Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail

                Yahoo! Groups Links


              • lady_caritas
                Greetings, everyone! ... reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for open discussion? or is anyone up for that? David, we haven t been
                Message 7 of 26 , May 24 9:58 AM
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                  Greetings, everyone!


                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Wilson
                  <light_life_love@y...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                  reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                  open discussion? or is anyone up for that?


                  David, we haven't been quite that structured into study sessions, but
                  if enough people are game, we would be happy to accommodate your
                  interest.

                  We generally entertain questions or comments anyone wants to bring to
                  the forum, including specific article or scripture references.



                  > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking
                  about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                  Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                  which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                  >
                  > sinicerely,
                  >
                  > David
                  >


                  Well, we're not talking about a variation of the Christian orthodox
                  Bible here. Actually, "The Gnostic Bible" is just a name given by
                  the authors to a compendium of historical Gnostic literature, in
                  addition to works from related groups.

                  Speaking of Nag Hammadi texts (included in _The Gnostic Bible_), I'd
                  also recommend James M. Robinson's _The Nag Hammadi Library_. _The
                  Gnostic Scriptures_ edited by Bentley Layton also contains a
                  selection of Gnostic scriptures with excellent translations and
                  commentary.

                  For new members, as I mentioned in my last post, don't forget to
                  check out our "links" section for suggested readings. Gnostic texts,
                  online lectures, and suggested readings can also be found online at
                  the Gnosis Archive listed in "links."
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/links


                  Cari
                • josephine0214
                  The links are very helpful. I wrote down some books I d like to check out of the library (eventually may purchase them). Some of my colleagues have mentioned
                  Message 8 of 26 , May 24 1:30 PM
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                    The links are very helpful. I wrote down some books I'd like to check
                    out of the library (eventually may purchase them). Some of my
                    colleagues have mentioned Sylvia Brown's books also, another bunch i
                    need to check out!

                    please clarify this for me-The Gnostic Bible we have termed here, is
                    this the only translation of the original scrolls found near the town
                    of Nag Hammadi, or are there other translations?

                    I think a weekly study session is a great idea and would be
                    interesting;however, I know it would be too difficult for me
                    personally, with crazy schedules with children, sports, etc to
                    actually be able to specifically pinpoint a day and time for that.

                    thanks everyone!
                    peace,
                    -jos



                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                    wrote:
                    > Greetings, everyone!
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Wilson
                    > <light_life_love@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                    > reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                    > open discussion? or is anyone up for that?
                    >
                    >
                    > David, we haven't been quite that structured into study sessions,
                    but
                    > if enough people are game, we would be happy to accommodate your
                    > interest.
                    >
                    > We generally entertain questions or comments anyone wants to bring
                    to
                    > the forum, including specific article or scripture references.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking
                    > about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                    > Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                    > which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                    > >
                    > > sinicerely,
                    > >
                    > > David
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    > Well, we're not talking about a variation of the Christian orthodox
                    > Bible here. Actually, "The Gnostic Bible" is just a name given by
                    > the authors to a compendium of historical Gnostic literature, in
                    > addition to works from related groups.
                    >
                    > Speaking of Nag Hammadi texts (included in _The Gnostic Bible_),
                    I'd
                    > also recommend James M. Robinson's _The Nag Hammadi Library_. _The
                    > Gnostic Scriptures_ edited by Bentley Layton also contains a
                    > selection of Gnostic scriptures with excellent translations and
                    > commentary.
                    >
                    > For new members, as I mentioned in my last post, don't forget to
                    > check out our "links" section for suggested readings. Gnostic
                    texts,
                    > online lectures, and suggested readings can also be found online at
                    > the Gnosis Archive listed in "links."
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/links
                    >
                    >
                    > Cari
                  • cynthia jarrell
                    I m game! lady_caritas wrote:Greetings, everyone! ... reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for open
                    Message 9 of 26 , May 24 2:07 PM
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                      I'm game!

                      lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      Greetings, everyone!


                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Wilson
                      <light_life_love@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                      reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                      open discussion? or is anyone up for that?


                      David, we haven't been quite that structured into study sessions, but
                      if enough people are game, we would be happy to accommodate your
                      interest. 

                      We generally entertain questions or comments anyone wants to bring to
                      the forum, including specific article or scripture references.



                      > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking
                      about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                      Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                      which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                      >
                      > sinicerely,
                      >
                      > David
                      >


                      Well, we're not talking about a variation of the Christian orthodox
                      Bible here.  Actually, "The Gnostic Bible" is just a name given by
                      the authors to a compendium of historical Gnostic literature, in
                      addition to works from related groups.

                      Speaking of Nag Hammadi texts (included in _The Gnostic Bible_), I'd
                      also recommend James M. Robinson's _The Nag Hammadi Library_.  _The
                      Gnostic Scriptures_ edited by Bentley Layton also contains a
                      selection of Gnostic scriptures with excellent translations and
                      commentary.

                      For new members, as I mentioned in my last post, don't forget to
                      check out our "links" section for suggested readings.  Gnostic texts,
                      online lectures, and suggested readings can also be found online at
                      the Gnosis Archive listed in "links."
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/links


                      Cari



                      __________________________________________________
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                    • lady_caritas
                      ... is ... town ... No, there certainly are other translations, books and online... a few I referenced in my last post. Jos, you might want to plug Nag
                      Message 10 of 26 , May 24 2:48 PM
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                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "josephine0214"
                        <josephine0214@y...> wrote:
                        >
                        > please clarify this for me-The Gnostic Bible we have termed here,
                        is
                        > this the only translation of the original scrolls found near the
                        town
                        > of Nag Hammadi, or are there other translations?


                        No, there certainly are other translations, books and online... a few
                        I referenced in my last post. Jos, you might want to plug "Nag
                        Hammadi Library" in your favorite search engine and come up with
                        other sources. Also, perhaps others might like to post additional
                        translation sources they prefer.



                        > I think a weekly study session is a great idea and would be
                        > interesting;however, I know it would be too difficult for me
                        > personally, with crazy schedules with children, sports, etc to
                        > actually be able to specifically pinpoint a day and time for that.
                        >
                        > thanks everyone!
                        > peace,
                        > -jos


                        David's suggestion was to post a reference for discussion once a
                        week, allowing comments for the remainder of the week, if I
                        understand correctly. That should provide a lot flexibility for
                        comments, even for those with crazy schedules.


                        Cari
                      • josephine0214
                        thank you for the clarification! - and sure, i m game for discussions on literature etc DAvid suggested :) jos ... few
                        Message 11 of 26 , May 24 3:47 PM
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                          thank you for the clarification! - and sure, i'm game for discussions
                          on literature etc DAvid suggested :)
                          jos

                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                          wrote:
                          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "josephine0214"
                          > <josephine0214@y...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > please clarify this for me-The Gnostic Bible we have termed here,
                          > is
                          > > this the only translation of the original scrolls found near the
                          > town
                          > > of Nag Hammadi, or are there other translations?
                          >
                          >
                          > No, there certainly are other translations, books and online... a
                          few
                          > I referenced in my last post. Jos, you might want to plug "Nag
                          > Hammadi Library" in your favorite search engine and come up with
                          > other sources. Also, perhaps others might like to post additional
                          > translation sources they prefer.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > > I think a weekly study session is a great idea and would be
                          > > interesting;however, I know it would be too difficult for me
                          > > personally, with crazy schedules with children, sports, etc to
                          > > actually be able to specifically pinpoint a day and time for that.
                          > >
                          > > thanks everyone!
                          > > peace,
                          > > -jos
                          >
                          >
                          > David's suggestion was to post a reference for discussion once a
                          > week, allowing comments for the remainder of the week, if I
                          > understand correctly. That should provide a lot flexibility for
                          > comments, even for those with crazy schedules.
                          >
                          >
                          > Cari
                        • janahooks
                          Hello, Jenny and Mike. Thanks for posting the article, Jenny. I actually daydream about visiting there. :) Mike, I sure wish you fellas could come to the
                          Message 12 of 26 , May 24 6:58 PM
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                            Hello, Jenny and Mike. Thanks for posting the article, Jenny. I
                            actually daydream about visiting there. :) Mike, I sure wish you
                            fellas could come to the East to enlighten us. (But wait until we see
                            what the demiurge has scheduled for hurricane season--our version
                            of "sweeps".)

                            jana


                            My next read
                            > though is the article on Stephan Höeller in the L. A. Weekley.
                            >
                            > Regards
                            > --
                            > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
                          • pmcvflag
                            Hey David Well, we had tried in the past to actually work through individual texts... but it never seems to go anywhere. Part of this is simply because of how
                            Message 13 of 26 , May 24 7:16 PM
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                              Hey David

                              Well, we had tried in the past to actually work through individual
                              texts... but it never seems to go anywhere. Part of this is simply
                              because of how involved the conversations can be. But as Cari points
                              out, we do like to see this kind of conversation happen here.

                              Perhaps then you would consider bringing up the specific points of
                              interest that you would most like to see more detailed conversation
                              about. That goes for all the members here.... the more you bring up
                              the more conversation there will be about it. Whether it is the
                              confusing lingo of Gnosticism, or some philosophical point that
                              seems difficult to grasp, or if there are some specific scriptures
                              that have special meaning to you, your own inputs are where the
                              topics come from so let the rest of us know.

                              PMCV

                              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Wilson
                              <light_life_love@y...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                              reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                              open discussion? or is anyone up for that?
                              >
                              > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking
                              about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                              Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                              which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                              >
                              > sinicerely,
                              >
                              > David
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
                            • Mike Leavitt
                              Hello David ... You must have missed my messages then. One pairs it with the Gnostic Bible as a basic text and the other menitons the Coptic Text/English
                              Message 14 of 26 , May 24 7:40 PM
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                                Hello David

                                On 05/24/05, you wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                                > reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                                > open discussion? or is anyone up for that?
                                >
                                > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking about
                                > Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                                > Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                                > which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                                >
                                > sinicerely,
                                >
                                > David

                                You must have missed my messages then. One pairs it with the Gnostic
                                Bible as a basic text and the other menitons the Coptic Text/English
                                translation edition of the NAJ HAMADI LIBRARY for those who want the
                                original Coptic text. I have read the whole thing (English only),
                                how well I understood it is another question. I'm going to tackle
                                the Gnostic Bible and THE GNOSTIC SCRIPTURES next. My next read
                                though is the article on Stephan Höeller in the L. A. Weekley.

                                Regards
                                --
                                Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                              • Mike Leavitt
                                Hello lady_caritas ... Thank you for the URL, it will save search time for people wanting those links. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
                                Message 15 of 26 , May 24 7:43 PM
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                                  Hello lady_caritas

                                  On 05/24/05, you wrote:
                                  > For new members, as I mentioned in my last post, don't forget to
                                  > check out our "links" section for suggested readings. Gnostic texts,
                                  > online lectures, and suggested readings can also be found online at
                                  > the Gnosis Archive listed in "links."
                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Cari

                                  Thank you for the URL, it will save search time for people wanting
                                  those links.

                                  Regards
                                  --
                                  Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                                • Mike Leavitt
                                  Hello janahooks ... The closest Stephan is getting this year is the National Theosophical Conference in Wheaton, Ill., just out of Chicago. Regards -- Mike
                                  Message 16 of 26 , May 24 8:06 PM
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                                    Hello janahooks

                                    On 05/25/05, you wrote:

                                    > Hello, Jenny and Mike. Thanks for posting the article, Jenny. I
                                    > actually daydream about visiting there. :) Mike, I sure wish you
                                    > fellas could come to the East to enlighten us. (But wait until we
                                    > see what the demiurge has scheduled for hurricane season--our
                                    > version of "sweeps".)
                                    >
                                    > jana

                                    The closest Stephan is getting this year is the National Theosophical
                                    Conference in Wheaton, Ill., just out of Chicago.

                                    Regards
                                    --
                                    Mike Leavitt ac998@...
                                  • lady_caritas
                                    ... I d like to make a clarification here. I was *only* referring to the specific book, _The Gnostic Bible_ (Barnstone and Myer), in my comment above. As we
                                    Message 17 of 26 , May 25 6:10 AM
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                                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Well, we're not talking about a variation of the Christian orthodox
                                      > Bible here. Actually, "The Gnostic Bible" is just a name given by
                                      > the authors to a compendium of historical Gnostic literature, in
                                      > addition to works from related groups.



                                      I'd like to make a clarification here. I was *only* referring to the
                                      specific book, _The Gnostic Bible_ (Barnstone and Myer), in my
                                      comment above.

                                      As we have discussed many times in the past, Gnostics certainly used
                                      some of the same scripture, albeit with different interpretation,
                                      that ended up being compiled in an orthodox Bible. Gerry brought up
                                      an excellent discussion recently regarding translations and whether
                                      anyone had found a version of the Bible that had "a more
                                      favorably `Gnostic' bias":
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/message/11006


                                      Cari
                                    • lady_caritas
                                      So, any ideas for topics for our first weekly study session,... anyone? Cari ... points
                                      Message 18 of 26 , May 27 4:59 AM
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                                        So, any ideas for topics for our first weekly study session,...
                                        anyone?

                                        Cari


                                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                                        > Hey David
                                        >
                                        > Well, we had tried in the past to actually work through individual
                                        > texts... but it never seems to go anywhere. Part of this is simply
                                        > because of how involved the conversations can be. But as Cari
                                        points
                                        > out, we do like to see this kind of conversation happen here.
                                        >
                                        > Perhaps then you would consider bringing up the specific points of
                                        > interest that you would most like to see more detailed conversation
                                        > about. That goes for all the members here.... the more you bring up
                                        > the more conversation there will be about it. Whether it is the
                                        > confusing lingo of Gnosticism, or some philosophical point that
                                        > seems difficult to grasp, or if there are some specific scriptures
                                        > that have special meaning to you, your own inputs are where the
                                        > topics come from so let the rest of us know.
                                        >
                                        > PMCV
                                        >
                                        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Wilson
                                        > <light_life_love@y...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Does this group ever have, weekly study sessions. to where a
                                        > reference is read by eveyone and for the rest of the week it up for
                                        > open discussion? or is anyone up for that?
                                        > >
                                        > > The other thing I wanted to meantion, I read everyones talking
                                        > about Gnostic Bibles, I haven't heard any one mention about the Nag
                                        > Hammadi, dead sea scrolls, or any any other arena similiar to those
                                        > which have direct relations with Gnosticism.
                                        > >
                                        > > sinicerely,
                                        > >
                                        > > David
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ---------------------------------
                                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                        > > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!
                                      • lady_caritas
                                        Okay, Gich, thank you. That s a doozie. I ll begin a new thread... BTW, members, this thread will be an addition, not a substitute, to our usual discussions.
                                        Message 19 of 26 , May 27 7:20 AM
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                                          Okay, Gich, thank you. That's a doozie. I'll begin a new thread...

                                          BTW, members, this thread will be an addition, not a substitute, to
                                          our usual discussions. Feel free to bring up questions and comments
                                          in new threads, as you'd like.

                                          Cari



                                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "gich morgan" <gich2@b...> wrote:
                                          > Definitions of "gnosis"
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "lady_caritas" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > To: <gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:59 PM
                                          > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: study sessions
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > So, any ideas for topics for our first weekly study session,...
                                          > > anyone?
                                          > >
                                          > > Cari
                                          > >
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