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Re: God: what's in a name?

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  • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
    hi PMCV... let s just put this whole thing to bed. in fact, my wife insists on it and i like to let her think she s the boss. she thinks we re both
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 11, 2005
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      hi PMCV... let's just put this whole thing to bed.  in fact, my wife insists on
      it and i like to let her think she's the boss.  she thinks we're both ridiculous
      because neither one of understands the other's point of view, and i'm
      convinced she's right:  you misunderstand me and i misunderstand you.
      just one of things.
       
      your friend,
       
      Crispin Sainte III
       
      PS  Hello, PMCV, I'm Crispin's wife and I AM the boss. You guys are
      pitiful. These exchanges would be hysterical if it wasn't for the shamefully
      obvious fact that you're both too damn self-preoccupied to listen to each
      other. I feel like I understand you both. Perfectly well. Why you guys don't
      get it is a mystery to me, and I'm especially frustrated with Crispin
      because I know he can do much, much better.
       
      So, BOYS, the thing you're groping with in the darkness is an elephant.
      It's not a tree trunk, not a fan, not a snake. It's an elephant!!!
       
      Katherine Favier Sainte
       
       
    • pmcvflag
      Crispin, you state.... ... wife insists onit and i like to let her think she s the boss. she thinks we re both ridiculous because neither one of understands
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 11, 2005
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        Crispin, you state....

        >>>"hi PMCV... let's just put this whole thing to bed. in fact, my
        wife insists onit and i like to let her think she's the boss. she
        thinks we're both ridiculous because neither one of understands the
        other's point of view, and i'm convinced she's right: you
        misunderstand me and i misunderstand you. just one of things."<<<

        Hmmm, perhaps, but I am less convinced. Let me explain after the
        following.....

        >>>"PS Hello, PMCV, I'm Crispin's wife and I AM the boss. You guys
        are pitiful. These exchanges would be hysterical if it wasn't for
        the shamefully obvious fact that you're both too damn self-
        preoccupied to listen to each other. I feel like I understand you
        both. Perfectly well. Why you guys don't get it is a mystery to me,
        and I'm especially frustrated with Crispin because I know he can do
        much, much better."<<<

        It is not shameful to misunderstand each other. On the contrary, we
        all start without understanding... it is the essence of "Gnosis" to
        overcome this state. Perhaps, Ms Katherine, you do understand us
        both. Perhaps Mr Crispin and I do misunderstand each other. But Mr
        Crispin is hopefully not here to understand MY point of view, he is
        hopefully here to better understand Gnosticism. It is a rewarding
        venture to hash out misunderstandings, but I am not so sure that
        there really is so much a misunderstanding.

        To put that another way, let me point out that it is not
        preocupation with myself that may be in the way, but preoccupation
        with the subject matter to which this group is dedicated. It is,
        after all, my job here as a mod. Beyond that, there simply is
        nothing to "get". It is not ME that Mr Crispin (or you in this case)
        need to understand, it is the subject of Philosophy to which we are
        dedicated to gaining better understanding of in this group.
        Likewise, I don't need to understand Mr Crispin.... only to know
        that he is sincere in wanting to understand the subject in and of
        itself (whether or not he empathises with or hates Gnosticism is no
        concern of mine. He could be here as an evangelist trying to
        understand what he is against for all I care.... as long as he
        truely wants to understand it).

        My understanding is that Cripin is self admitedly new to the
        subject. Is it much of a leap that perhaps he has some
        preconceptions of the subject that may be inaccurate? Or that
        perhaps the ideas look initially differently to him than they really
        are meant?

        >>>"So, BOYS, the thing you're groping with in the darkness is an
        elephant. It's not a tree trunk, not a fan, not a snake. It's an
        elephant!!!"<<<

        With all due respect, Ms Katherine, this is not an elephant, it is
        an historical belief system... one that I know pretty well, and from
        many angles (including, but not limited to, some small level of
        academic training in the subject). I don't mean that to sound puffed
        up, but neither would I be honest if I pretended that I have not
        dedicated some time to the subject at hand. I am not asking Crispin
        to agree with the beliefs of Gnosticism, only to understand them
        without assuming much right in the beginning.

        There is no disagreement here, nor anything to "put to bed". Either
        Crispin is sincere in his desire to understand historical Gnosticism
        in it's own context (in which case he is in the right place), or he
        is looking for something else (which is a different story).

        I only wish to provide an accurate picture of what Gnostic beliefs
        looked like..... anyone who is looking for anything other than this
        may have misunderstood what this group is about.

        But one can't understand this historical system if they are making
        judgement calls before they get the facts.

        My suggesting then, would be... instead of putting this to bed, as
        it were, to step back for a moment and remove preconceptions. Then,
        try to understand even if it is not what you personally believe or
        ever wish to believe. Just try to understand it for what it is.

        PMCV
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