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RE: Nocturnal Omission

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  • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
    too funny, Gerry... just keep switching euphemisms and it gets even funnier. my wife prefers inserting morning wood. in the verse that is. Crispin Sainte
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 6, 2005
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      too funny, Gerry...  just keep switching euphemisms and it gets even funnier.  my wife prefers inserting "morning wood."  in the verse that is. 

      Crispin Sainte III                           

       

      Or, as the compilers of the SV would have us believe . . .

      Joseph got up and did what the messenger of the Lord told him: he took < Mary as > his wife. He did not have sex with her until she had given birth to a son. Joseph named him Jesus.

      Actually, since “eginósken” is the verb in the original (= to know; to be familiar with), it seems to me that the KJV (as well as the Interlinear) is the more accurate translation of those versions presented. We can speak of “knowing” someone or some thing, and we can speak of knowing someone “in the biblical sense,” but the verb itself was just as ambiguous back then as now, and the very same can be said for numerous other terms, the word for “intercourse” being another good example.

      If the SV editors feel a need to spell out “sex” for that particular passage, it seems as if the story would be all the more compelling if yet another change was made, although this rather obvious understanding seems to have been willfully omitted by the SV panel of authorities. Since “diegertheis” is what introduces these two verses (= to arouse; to excite; to stimulate), there is clearly another adjustment that needs to be made in order to render the whole passage better understood by today’s reader:

      And Joseph was awakened from his sleep with a hard-on, . . . .

      For me, the miraculous nature of the story is made all the more awesome when understood in the context that Joseph was operating under the influence of an erection . . . and he still resisted copulating with God’s concubine until after such time as Their son was born.

      ’Twas but another Christmas miracle!

      Gerry

    • eyeambetty
      Cheers! Gerry! Sterling,linguistic observations. well, it s all Greek to me... ... particular passage in the original Greek sources I had on hand: The
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 9, 2005
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        Cheers! Gerry!
        Sterling,linguistic observations. well, it's all Greek to me...


        In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:

        > Okay, that reference made me curious, so I looked up that
        particular passage in the original Greek sources I had on hand: The
        Interlinear Bible (Hendrickson) and the Novum Testamentum Graece et
        Latine (Nestle-Aland). The former includes the phrase referring
        to "the firstborn" (which is lacking in the latter), so I've utilized
        the extended version for my example below (visible in Symbol font, if
        you have it):
        >
        > KATA MAQQAION (1, 24-25)
        >
        >
        > diegerJeiV de 'o Iwshj apo tou 'upnou
        > epoihsen 'wV prosetaxen autw 'o aggeloV Kuriou,
        > kai parelabe thn gunaika autou,
        > kai ouk eginwsken authn 'ewV 'ou eteke ton 'uion
        > authV ton prwtotokon.
        > kai ekalese to onoma autou Ihsoun.
        >
        > And Joseph, being aroused from sleep,
        > did as the angel of the Lord commanded him,
        > and took his wife,
        > and did not know her until she bore her son,
        > her firstborn.
        > And he called his name Jesus.
        > Or, as the compilers of the SV would have us believe . . .
        > Joseph got up and did what the messenger of the Lord told him:
        he took < Mary as > his wife. He did not have sex with her until she
        had given birth to a son. Joseph named him Jesus.
        >
        > Actually, since "eginósken" is the verb in the original (= to
        know;
        to be familiar with), it seems to me that the KJV (as well as the
        Interlinear) is the more accurate translation of those versions
        presented. We can speak of "knowing" someone or some thing, and we
        can speak of knowing someone "in the biblical sense," but the verb
        itself was just as ambiguous back then as now, and the very same can
        be said for numerous other terms, the word for "intercourse" being
        another good example.
        >
        > If the SV editors feel a need to spell out "sex" for that
        particular passage, it seems as if the story would be all the more
        compelling if yet another change was made, although this rather
        obvious understanding seems to have been willfully omitted by the SV
        panel of authorities. Since "diegertheis" is what introduces these
        two verses (= to arouse; to excite; to stimulate), there is clearly
        another adjustment that needs to be made in order to render the whole
        passage better understood by today's reader:
        >
        > And Joseph was awakened from his sleep with a hard-on, . . . .
        >
        > For me, the miraculous nature of the story is made all the more
        awesome when understood in the context that Joseph was operating
        under the influence of an erection . . . and he still resisted
        copulating with God's concubine until after such time as Their son
        was born.
        >
        > 'Twas but another Christmas miracle!


        Oh, it's the story of Jesus!
        ya know, the author of "The Gospel of Philip" said " Truth did not
        come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world
        will not receive truth in any other way."
        this is an image i won't soon forget!!!
        very cheeky...

        betty
      • Gerry
        ... Glad to hear that that went over well at your house, Crispin. ;-) As for the serious side of that backhanded book review, I m finding it hard . . . um . .
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 9, 2005
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Tsharpmin7@a... wrote:
          >
          > too funny, Gerry... just keep switching euphemisms and it gets
          > even funnier. my wife prefers inserting "morning wood." in the
          > verse that is.
          >
          > Crispin Sainte III





          Glad to hear that that went over well at your house, Crispin. ;-)

          As for the serious side of that backhanded book review, I'm finding
          it hard . . . um . . . difficult to believe that I even own such a
          book. Truth is, I probably picked up _The Complete Gospels_ soon
          after the paperback version came out and ended up lending it to a
          friend soon afterwards. At the time, she was wondering if I had a
          copy of the Gospel of Thomas that she could borrow, and since I had
          that particular tractate in numerous books, as well as access to it
          through the Internet (she's still in the dark ages in that respect),
          I pulled that volume off the shelf and figured I wouldn't miss it
          much. Evidently, I didn't miss it at all; when she returned it a
          couple months ago, I had already completely forgotten that I had even
          purchased it those many years ago.

          As I finally had a chance to start looking through the introduction
          explaining the editorial and translating process, I could barely
          believe it. I was actually so embarrassed that THIS was the exemplar
          I had chosen to lend her (whether of the GTh or of ANY gospel), I
          felt like I had done her more of a disservice than a favor. She said
          later that any perceived injustice had been more than atoned for by
          the laugh she got when I faxed her my critique of the book, along
          with your carefully crafted comments above. :-)

          Gerry
        • Gerry
          ... Oh my, I hope my twisted humor hasn t tainted EVERYone s take on the nativity, but if the image helps to remind anyone else of that passage from the Gospel
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 9, 2005
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            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "eyeambetty" <eyeambetty@y...>
            wrote:
            >
            > [...]
            >
            > Oh, it's the story of Jesus!
            > ya know, the author of "The Gospel of Philip" said " Truth did not
            > come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The
            > world will not receive truth in any other way."
            > this is an image i won't soon forget!!!
            > very cheeky...
            >
            > betty




            Oh my, I hope my twisted humor hasn't tainted EVERYone's take on the
            nativity, but if the image helps to remind anyone else of that
            passage from the Gospel of Philip, then so much the better.

            Honestly, Betty, I don't think that that concept of "types and
            images" can be reiterated enough around here. :-)

            Gerry
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