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Manicheanism & Augustine

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  • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
    hi Mike... you wrote: What became Christianity would not have happened without Paul and Augustine, not that James version was Christianity, and probably
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 2 11:31 PM
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      hi Mike...  you wrote:
       
      "What became Christianity would not have happened without Paul and
      Augustine, not that James version was Christianity, and probably
      closer to the original version.  I come close to hating Augustine
      like you hate Paul.  He brought the worst elements of Manacheanism
      into Christianity, but went further with Original Sin.  You want to
      blame someone for the real mess that is Christianity, Augustine makes
      Paul look postitively benign.  Who did Calvin go back to?  Augustine."
       
       
      Mike,
       
      what do you consider "the worst elements of Manacheanism?"
       
      i'd forgotten Augustine was a "reformed" Manichean?? 
       
      your friend,
       
      Crispin Sainte III
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello Tsharpmin7@aol.com ... Basicallly the dark and pessamistic world view, of which original sin was his coup de ta (sp?). Negative ideas aout sex is
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 3 7:52 AM
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        Hello Tsharpmin7@...

        On 03/03/05, you wrote:

        > hi Mike... you wrote:
        >
        > "What became Christianity would not have happened without Paul and
        > Augustine, not that James version was Christianity, and probably
        > closer to the original version. I come close to hating Augustine
        > like you hate Paul. He brought the worst elements of Manacheanism
        > into Christianity, but went further with Original Sin. You want to
        > blame someone for the real mess that is Christianity, Augustine
        > makes Paul look postitively benign. Who did Calvin go back to?
        > Augustine."

        Basicallly the dark and pessamistic world view, of which original sin
        was his coup de ta (sp?). Negative ideas aout sex is another one.
        True, he twisted Manacheanism, it was not so negative as him,
        recognizing there was the good trapped in the world along with the
        bad. This old world comes of full of sin and evil for Augustine, a
        perversion of Manachean precepts.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998@...
      • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
        thanks, Mike... maybe its the times and culture he was exposed to. i know very little about Augustine, but its not all that surprising to me that any man
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 3 10:17 AM
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          thanks, Mike...  maybe its the times and culture he was exposed to.
          i know very little about Augustine, but its not all that surprising to me 
          that any man should be focused in or obsessed with the poverty,
          squalor, disease, corruption, etc., Augustine was probably well
          acquainted with.  besides, he certainly wasn't the first to 
          misunderstand and ultimately distort a philosophy, as you've
          suggested he had.  and i'm lately beginning to wonder if sophistry
          isn't the normal operating procedure of most religious and political
          movements, especially as they devolve to the dogmatic state as
          opposed to the original active/perceptive state.  
           
          i read a recent biography about Francis of Assisi while i was in the
          hospital and was struck by how swiftly many aspects of his life
          became distorted and mythologized; the sophistry manifesting as
          intentional additions and substractions of his life motivated,
          possibly, by "well intentioned" desires to strengthen the faith and
          substantiate points of doctrine/dogma.  and isn't sophistry, after all,
          one of the favorite tools of the propagandist?
           
          your friend,
           
          Crispin Sainte III
           
           
           
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