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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostics and Templars

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  • nakedalchemy@aol.com
    There are many vagueries and mysteries associated with the Knight s Templar, this we know, while it may be prudent to say it is mostly conjecture and
    Message 1 of 71 , Feb 1, 2005
      There are many vagueries and mysteries associated with the Knight's Templar, this we know, while it may be prudent to say it is mostly conjecture and myth-making..yet, with what is available there is a possible connection...they felt they were the conduit between God and man..it seems some of their systems followed many philosophic tracts, and the basic being Plotinus
      Also ,from this Article © John Barnwell Author of "The Arcana of the Grail Angel:
      The Spiritual Science of the Holy Blood and of the Holy Grail" found online
      is this paragrah...

      When you follow the teachings of the Templars, there at the heart of it is a kind of reverence for something of a feminine nature. This femininity was known as the Divine Sophia, the Heavenly Wisdom. Manas is the fifth principle, the spiritual self of man [Spirit-Self, or Higher Self], that must be developed, for which a 'temple' must be built. And just as the pentagon at the entrance to Solomon's Temple characterizes the five-fold human being, this female principle similarly typifies the wisdom of the Middle Ages. This wisdom is exactly what Dante sought to personify in his Beatrice. Only from this viewpoint can Dante's Divine Comedy be understood. Hence you find Dante, too, using the same symbols as those which find expression in the Templars, the Christian knights, the Knights of the Grail, and so on. Everything which is hidden [concerning the future evolution of mankind] was indeed long since prepared for by the great initiates, who foretell future events, in the same way as the 'Apocalypse', so that souls will be prepared for these events.

      Specific references to Gnosticism are hard to come by, except that, like I previously stated, on their Crusades and their protecting those on pilgrimages, they were bound to pick up on some of the Gnostic notions...indeed, their forced denial of the Cross of Christ, that is the Crucifixion was done in order to disband them, to take away their large power, by the Church that so needed them in time of conflict..
      In a message dated 1/31/2005 10:10:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
      Hey Mychael, I actually had completely misunderstood. When you
      mentioned the truths in a fiction I thought you meant allegorical
      truths of some nature. I thought it could be fun and interesting to
      explore what those ideas that you saw within the book might have in
      connection with Gnosticism.

      I see what you mean now, other than the allegory of the divine
      feminine you seem to be talking about sort of historical semi-
      conections. Well, that is of course interesting as well.

      I am with you in drawing a destinction between the original
      Rosicrucians as invented by J. V. Andrea and C. Besold vs the modern
      groups. And, of course no one would deny that this original group is
      influenced by hermeticism (as are the modern groups)... which is in
      turn very closely related to Gnosticism.

      I am a bit more skeptical when it comes to the Templars though. I
      can't even go so far as to say there is even any good conjecture
      that I have seen connecting them to any Gnostic system at all.
      However, you may have some ideas to share on that. I mean, sometimes
      I may say "there is no good evidence for _____", but I may still
      think a theory is well thought and very possible. In the case of the
      Templar/Gnosticism connection, what I tend to see is in fact more
      about a pretty explicit opposition in systems.

      While the Cathars are not technically Gnostic, they are one of the
      groups we list as "on topic" here. One fact that may be of interest
      in dealing with the Templars then is that Barnard created much of
      their rule and helped them institute the order.... and he was also a
      violent anti-Cathar proslytizer.

      We maybe should also mention in this conversation the fact that one
      of the movements that is also similar to Gnosticism found it's
      primary early solidification here in the same area.... Kabbalah.

      AND, there were Platonic Academies here as well. Maybe not
      coincidence that various esoteric movements came into existance in
      this time, they do tend to follow the Academies.


      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, nakedalchemy@a... wrote:

      > In a message dated 1/30/2005 11:13:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
      > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
      > Interesting point, Mychael, concerning the differentiation
      > truth and falsehood in fiction. Of course, to some extent it is 
      > preaching to the preachers here, and I know that George  is also
      > who is very aware of the principle you are talking about.
      > However,  I am wondering if you could point out for the sake of
      > conversation exactly  where you feel the truth is (specifically
      > concerning Gnosticism) in these  particular works of entertaining
      > fiction. Many people do wonder about the  Da Vinci Codes, and the
      > Holy Blood Holy Grail, and how they are related to  Gnostic
      > so perhaps it is a good subject to talk about  here.
      > BTW, welcome to the group, C.A.S., I would also like to deal with 
      > the point you bring up from the historical perspective. In this
      > what Dan Brown talks about in the Da Vinci codes is really not
      > related to historical Gnosticism. Some of the things he says about
      > the  Nag Hammadi texts and what they contain are actually
      > untrue. He  is wrong that Gnostics believed that Jesus and Mary
      > children, they  didn't. There is also nothing in the Nag Hammadi
      > about Jesus being  married, or even anything about sexual rituals
      > like the ones he  outlines.
      > PMCV
      > I have read the Da Vinci Code and also saw a documentary of
      Cracking the Da 
      > Vinci Code, neither persuaded me of much to do with Gnosticism
      except that Da 
      > Vinci pretty much despised the Christian attitude, his works were
      done as a 
      > livelihood and he did poke some blasphemies into the his paintings
      > being  readily seen...The only real connection is that Da Vinci
      himself may have
      > been  influenced by some Gnostic thought.
      > The only profound thing the book did for me, was enlighten the
      world about 
      > the Divine Feminine aspect of God.
      > I read Holy Blood, Holy Grail a long time ago when it came out,
      and  although
      > fascinating, there was little evidence to back up much of their
      claims.  I
      > was very much into Grail lore at the time and the title intrigued
      me, the 
      > connections between the church locations in or around the Pyrenees
      seemed to  have
      > some insight...Otherwise, they pulled rabbits out of the hat with
      > sources. But, also what both books did do is to get people
      thinking in 
      > alternatives, and this is a good thing, not to settle for what's
      in the  feedbag
      > I suppose the biggest clue is of the Knights Templars, but it is
      > conjecture if they followed a secret Gnostic plan of their own,
      surely their 
      > elitism might fall into that category somewhere, but, then their
      allowing many 
      > into their fold over time would discount that...if anything their
      similarity to 
      > the story of the Three Musketeers is much more close in my mind,
      and they were
      >  part of the Crusades. So, who knows, many of the Crusaders
      latched onto
      > things  both materialistically and intellectually as the overtook
      > cultures.
      > While I would consider elements of both books to have truths,
      overall one  is
      > a work of fiction, and the other strictly conjecture.
      > If either got some people to explore and investigate and research 
      > more...this is a start, but as one does research more, one finds
      many dead  ends, and
      > people just love to read into things, and I am of the guilty
      there,  too. To me,
      > the invisible and perhaps nonexistent Rosicrucianism(not counting 
      > more closely akin to the Gnostic as well as The Hermeticists, and
      I am  to
      > understand The Priory of Scion is a complete fabrication
      perpetrated by a few  who
      > made its history up, just as Rosicrucianism, or else the
      possibility exists 
      > that they were a "true to the letter" secret society.
      > But, imagination sparks many things, without it humanity would be
      still in 
      > the dark ages, and as fanciful as much of it is, one need only
      look at science 
      > fiction and what it predicted and is now come to be made fact.
      > However, I am one of those who believes that adage that truth is
      > stranger than fiction.

      > mychael

    • nakedalchemy@aol.com
      In a message dated 2/9/2005 1:10:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes: Speaking of forgetting things.... what I hate the most is when
      Message 71 of 71 , Feb 9, 2005
        In a message dated 2/9/2005 1:10:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
        Speaking of forgetting things.... what I hate the most is when I am
        at the store, or somewhere, and I forget where I live and......
        wait..... Do I know you, Gary?

        i have driven by my house, when i had one, a few times...
        what is worse when you feel in an alternative universe and everything looks only vaguely familiar..this happens to me alot...almost like an out of body experience only you are wide awake.
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