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Hello Again....

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  • mercyboxfan
    I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know, once gnosis has been uncovered
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 19, 2004
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      I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
      disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know, once
      gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
      again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
      being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
      the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption and
      bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only place
      to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
      Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.

      Anne Marie
    • annie
      hi Annie Marie truly, I believe they are only available within one s self, just as the Truth is--and God. the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 19, 2004
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        hi Annie Marie
         
        truly, I believe they are only available within one's self, just as the Truth is--and God.
         
        the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being something done in a tangible manner (i.e. in physical actions) are just a shadow representation of the true transformation which takes place within.
         
        agape & unity
        annie
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:17 PM
        Subject: [Gnosticism2] Hello Again....



        I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
        disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know, once
        gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
        again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
        being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
        the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption and
        bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only place
        to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
        Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.

        Anne Marie







      • pmcvflag
        Hmm, well, of course not all Gnostics of old practiced all these rites. Since this was essentially a Valentinian outline you offered (one that does still
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 20, 2004
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          Hmm, well, of course not all Gnostics of old practiced all these
          rites. Since this was essentially a Valentinian outline you offered
          (one that does still essentially exist within the Catholic Church)
          then besides the fact that you already mention the church I would
          have to say that the groups that are most closely related to this
          outline.... such as the Ecclesia Gnostica, could be your best bet.

          PMCV

          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "mercyboxfan" <mercyboxfan@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
          > disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know,
          once
          > gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
          > again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
          > being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
          > the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption
          and
          > bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only
          place
          > to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
          > Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.
          >
          > Anne Marie
        • pmcvflag
          Hey Annie Well, in one way I agree with you. However, I am not so sure I would say ritual only as if the very word somehow implies the worthless nature of
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 20, 2004
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            Hey Annie

            Well, in one way I agree with you. However, I am not so sure I would
            say "ritual only" as if the very word somehow implies the worthless
            nature of ritual practice. I mean. we should not forget that
            Gnosticism is an initiatory system, which means that ritual was
            given a heavy meaning in traditional Gnostic outlines. I mean, a
            shadow is determined by the nature of the material image creating it
            as well as the light standing behind it.

            PMCV

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "annie" <annielu38@z...> wrote:
            > hi Annie Marie
            >
            > truly, I believe they are only available within one's self, just
            as the Truth is--and God.
            >
            > the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being something done in
            a tangible manner (i.e. in physical actions) are just a shadow
            representation of the true transformation which takes place within.
            >
            > agape & unity
            > annie
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: mercyboxfan
            > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:17 PM
            > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Hello Again....
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
            > disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know,
            once
            > gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
            > again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With
            orthodoxy
            > being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake
            of
            > the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption
            and
            > bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only
            place
            > to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
            > Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.
            >
            > Anne Marie
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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          • nakedalchemy@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:55:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes: Hey Annie Well, in one way I agree with you. However, I am
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 21, 2004
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              In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:55:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
              Hey Annie

              Well, in one way I agree with you. However, I am not so sure I would
              say "ritual only" as if the very word somehow implies the worthless
              nature of ritual practice. I mean. we should not forget that
              Gnosticism is an initiatory system, which means that ritual was
              given a heavy meaning in traditional Gnostic outlines. I mean, a
              shadow is determined by the nature of the material image creating it
              as well as the light standing behind it.

              PMCV

              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "annie" <annielu38@z...> wrote:
              > hi Annie Marie
              >
              > truly, I believe they are only available within one's self, just
              as the Truth is--and God.
              >
              > the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being something done in
              a tangible manner (i.e. in physical actions) are just a shadow
              representation of the true transformation which takes place within.
              >
              > agape & unity
              > annie
              Hello All,
               
              there is something to be said for ritual, from the mundane to the ceremonial and sacremental...yes, it is pomp, yes it is much a prop, but something delightful does occur within ritual if one is really attuned to the proceedings.
              I, don't boohoo it so much as forgo the props for there are many another way to enact upon e.g. meditation, etc.
              Even the sense of communing with others, with deity, with nature can be achieved through ritual...I think it is often a way to find fellowship, yes, but also a way to "energize" one's self.
              Ritual supposedly puts you into focus...to mirror your beliefs....
               
              mychael
            • pmcvflag
              Mychael Good points. In fact, I would even take the notion a bit further when we are talking about Gnostic usage of this methodology. The Gnostic ritual system
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 21, 2004
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                Mychael

                Good points. In fact, I would even take the notion a bit further
                when we are talking about Gnostic usage of this methodology. The
                Gnostic ritual system is so closely tied to it's ritual function,
                that I don't think we can remove any of the aspects from this ritual
                function.

                Perhaps an intersting subject would be just what that function could
                be. Here is my observation; Gnostic ritual is filled with meaning.
                Ritual in and of itself is a mnemonic for the points being dealt
                with in the ritual. That is to say, dealing with the mythology on a
                basis that hits you physically, intellectually, and spiritually...
                all at the same time.... serves to drive the point home. Gnostic
                ritual was also shocking in it's original context, which served to
                focus the attention.

                If the two work together they do more than than even "energize". The
                point of the ritual is to break assumption and hopefully provide
                direct experience of the message so that understanding
                is "initiated". Ritual was meant as an actual method of passing on
                understanding ("Gnosis").

                PMCV

                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, nakedalchemy@a... wrote:
                >
                > In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:55:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
                > no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                >
                > Hey Annie
                >
                > Well, in one way I agree with you. However, I am not so sure I
                would
                > say "ritual only" as if the very word somehow implies the
                worthless
                > nature of ritual practice. I mean. we should not forget that
                > Gnosticism is an initiatory system, which means that ritual was
                > given a heavy meaning in traditional Gnostic outlines. I mean, a
                > shadow is determined by the nature of the material image creating
                it
                > as well as the light standing behind it.
                >
                > PMCV
                >
                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "annie" <annielu38@z...>
                wrote:
                > > hi Annie Marie
                > >
                > > truly, I believe they are only available within one's self,
                just
                > as the Truth is--and God.
                > >
                > > the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being something done
                in
                > a tangible manner (i.e. in physical actions) are just a shadow
                > representation of the true transformation which takes place
                within.
                > >
                > > agape & unity
                > > annie
                >
                >
                >
                > Hello All,
                >
                > there is something to be said for ritual, from the mundane to the
                ceremonial
                > and sacremental...yes, it is pomp, yes it is much a prop, but
                something
                > delightful does occur within ritual if one is really attuned to
                the proceedings.
                > I, don't boohoo it so much as forgo the props for there are many
                another way
                > to enact upon e.g. meditation, etc.
                > Even the sense of communing with others, with deity, with nature
                can be
                > achieved through ritual...I think it is often a way to find
                fellowship, yes, but
                > also a way to "energize" one's self.
                > Ritual supposedly puts you into focus...to mirror your beliefs....
                >
                > mychael
              • nakedalchemy@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/21/2004 11:56:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes: Mychael Good points. In fact, I would even take the notion a
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 22, 2004
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                  In a message dated 12/21/2004 11:56:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
                  Mychael

                  Good points. In fact, I would even take the notion a bit further
                  when we are talking about Gnostic usage of this methodology. The
                  Gnostic ritual system is so closely tied to it's  ritual function,
                  that I don't think we can remove any of the aspects from this ritual
                  function.

                  Perhaps an intersting subject would be just what that function could
                  be. Here is my observation; Gnostic ritual is filled with meaning.
                  Ritual in and of itself is a mnemonic for the points being dealt
                  with in the ritual. That is to say, dealing with the mythology on a
                  basis that hits you physically, intellectually, and spiritually...
                  all at the same time.... serves to drive the point home. Gnostic
                  ritual was also shocking in it's original context, which served to
                  focus the attention.

                  If the two work together they do more than than even "energize". The
                  point of the ritual is to break assumption and hopefully provide
                  direct experience of the message so that understanding
                  is "initiated". Ritual was meant as an actual method of passing on
                  understanding ("Gnosis").

                  PMCV
                   PMVC
                   
                  I agree, well said.
                   
                  mychael
                • hermetic_star
                  I must agree here. The sacrements seal what is already within you. The water babtism and the chrism still survive within the orthodoxy, but the redemption and
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 16, 2005
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                    I must agree here. The sacrements seal what is already within you. The
                    water babtism and the chrism still survive within the orthodoxy, but
                    the redemption and bridal chamber have been lost to us. It's debated
                    that parts of the BC have survived into the LDS church, but I have
                    info that makes me think otherwise. Maybe we should chat on this
                    subject in the near future. ;)

                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "annie" <annielu38@z...> wrote:
                    > hi Annie Marie
                    >
                    > truly, I believe they are only available within one's self, just as
                    the Truth is--and God.
                    >
                    > the outer sacraments are ritual only, and being something done in a
                    tangible manner (i.e. in physical actions) are just a shadow
                    representation of the true transformation which takes place within.
                    >
                    > agape & unity
                    > annie
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: mercyboxfan
                    > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 9:17 PM
                    > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Hello Again....
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
                    > disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know, once


                    > gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
                    > again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
                    > being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
                    > the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption and
                    > bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only place
                    > to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
                    > Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.
                    >
                    > Anne Marie
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > Children International
                    > Give a Child the gift of Hope this Holiday
                    season
                    >
                    > · Click Here to meet a Boy
                    > And Change His Life
                    >
                    > · Click Here to meet a Girl
                    > And Give Her Hope are
                    >
                    > Learn More
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/
                    >
                    > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    > gnosticism2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                    Service.
                  • hermetic_star
                    There is also another church in Palo Alto that claims to have the BC (or a BC?)... I believe they are called Ecclasia Gnostica Mysterium or something
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 16, 2005
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                      There is also another church in Palo Alto that claims to have the BC
                      (or 'a' BC?)... I believe they are called 'Ecclasia Gnostica
                      Mysterium' or something close...

                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hmm, well, of course not all Gnostics of old practiced all these
                      > rites. Since this was essentially a Valentinian outline you offered
                      > (one that does still essentially exist within the Catholic Church)
                      > then besides the fact that you already mention the church I would
                      > have to say that the groups that are most closely related to this
                      > outline.... such as the Ecclesia Gnostica, could be your best bet.
                      >
                      > PMCV
                      >
                      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "mercyboxfan" <mercyboxfan@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
                      > > disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know,
                      > once
                      > > gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
                      > > again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
                      > > being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
                      > > the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption
                      > and
                      > > bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only
                      > place
                      > > to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
                      > > Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.
                      > >
                      > > Anne Marie
                    • hermetic_star
                      Whoops, forgot about the Eucharist. I believe the orthodox eucharist is similar enough to the Gnostic version to be workable. What determines its effectiveness
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 16, 2005
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                        Whoops, forgot about the Eucharist. I believe the orthodox eucharist
                        is similar enough to the Gnostic version to be workable. What
                        determines its effectiveness is the awareness of the true meanings of
                        the symbols involved. Anyway, I want to wish you luck on your quest to
                        find and recieve these.

                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "mercyboxfan" <mercyboxfan@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > I used to follow the original group a while ago...became very
                        > disillusioned with some of the people and left...as we all know, once
                        > gnosis has been uncovered it doesnt leave us...so I am saying hi
                        > again. My reason for posting is a question to pose. With orthodoxy
                        > being what it is where does a modern "gnostic" find and partake of
                        > the five mysteries? Meaning baptism,chrism,eucharist,redemption and
                        > bridal chamber. It seems the orthodox church would be the only place
                        > to find these, but I was wondering if you guys of another way?
                        > Thanks for your help and nice to be talking with you again.
                        >
                        > Anne Marie
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