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Re: QUESTIONS...

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  • Gerry
    ... Same here, Mike. I wouldn t have any familiarity with the RHPS phenomenon if it hadn t been for my sister and a couple friends who braved the lines. His
    Message 1 of 26 , Nov 21, 2004
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      >
      > My only memeory of the Rocky Horror thing was watching people line
      > up outside this theater that played it for five years straight. I
      > was never into the underground movie thing and never saw it, and
      > never cared to. Oh well, different strokes....
      >
      > Regards
      > --
      > Mike Leavitt



      Same here, Mike. I wouldn't have any familiarity with the RHPS
      phenomenon if it hadn't been for my sister and a couple friends who
      braved the lines. His song DID get a lot of airtime back then
      though, and I listened to a lot of radio at the time.

      It's just a darned shame that something like "Hedwig" wasn't released
      back then instead. For those of us here who weren't schooled in the
      ways of neo-platonism and Gnostic thought at an early age, a film
      like that might have been quite a timesaver.

      Again, the question might center around how much good can come out of
      the popular presentation of such subjects. We can suppose that there
      would be some out there who would discover Plato's _Symposium_ as a
      result of a production like that, so surely that could be a good
      thing——especially if they otherwise found the Classics to be too
      stodgy. At the same time, now that so much of this formerly obscure
      material is readily available on the shelves of Anytown's bookstore,
      it's scary to think how many people might misinterpret the meaning of
      such things as making the inner like the outer, and making male and
      female into a single one, etc. It ain't about gettin' a sex change.

      Gerry
    • lady_caritas
      ... his ... just ... fan ... Well, in any case, this following link might be a bit more informative than the other one: ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001533/ )
      Message 2 of 26 , Nov 22, 2004
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello lady_caritas
        >
        > On 11/22/04, you wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
        wrote:
        > >>
        > >> The meat loaf site locked up my first browser, and just gave me
        his
        > >> picture and large black areas on the other two, so while you were
        > >> right about meathead, I still don't know who meatloaf was. I sent
        > >> the link to work to look at it in IE, and I guess that will make
        > >> the site work so I will then know who he was. He looks like Jeb
        > >> Clampet's son in The Beverly Hillbillies, but....
        > >>
        > >> Regards
        > >> --
        > >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
        > >
        > >
        > > Gosh, sorry about that, Mike. Actually, if you want, you could
        just
        > > plug "Meat Loaf" in a search engine. (That other one was just a
        fan
        > > club.) There are many more sites, and you might find one that will
        > > open properly in your browser.
        > >
        > >
        > > Cari
        >
        > I'm not so anxious to know that I can't wait until tomorro, had I
        > really wanted to know sooner, I could have forwarded it to the wife,
        > she uses foxfire and has IE if it wouldn't work.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998@l...


        Well, in any case, this following link might be a bit more
        informative than the other one:

        ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001533/ )

        *bio*: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001533/bio



        Cari
      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello Gerry ... Gee you re right, let the trans-gender people get hold of it and....:-) Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998@lafn.org
        Message 3 of 26 , Nov 22, 2004
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          Hello Gerry

          On 11/22/04, you wrote:

          >
          >
          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
          >>
          >> My only memeory of the Rocky Horror thing was watching people line
          >> up outside this theater that played it for five years straight. I
          >> was never into the underground movie thing and never saw it, and
          >> never cared to. Oh well, different strokes....
          >>
          >> Regards
          >> --
          >> Mike Leavitt
          >
          >
          >
          > Same here, Mike. I wouldn't have any familiarity with the RHPS
          > phenomenon if it hadn't been for my sister and a couple friends who
          > braved the lines. His song DID get a lot of airtime back then
          > though, and I listened to a lot of radio at the time.
          >
          > It's just a darned shame that something like "Hedwig" wasn't
          > released back then instead. For those of us here who weren't
          > schooled in the ways of neo-platonism and Gnostic thought at an
          > early age, a film like that might have been quite a timesaver.
          >
          > Again, the question might center around how much good can come out
          > of the popular presentation of such subjects. We can suppose that
          > there would be some out there who would discover Plato's _Symposium_
          > as a result of a production like that, so surely that could be a
          > good thing
          >
          > Gerry

          Gee you're right, let the trans-gender people get hold of it
          and....:-)

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998@...
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello lady_caritas ... Yes, very informative. I had heard the name, but that was about it. I m a bit surprised I didn t know who he was, even with my general
          Message 4 of 26 , Nov 22, 2004
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            Hello lady_caritas

            On 11/22/04, you wrote:

            >
            >
            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
            >> Hello lady_caritas
            >>
            >> On 11/22/04, you wrote:
            >>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
            > wrote:
            >> >>
            >> >> The meat loaf site locked up my first browser, and just gave me
            > his
            >> >> picture and large black areas on the other two, so while you
            >> >> were right about meathead, I still don't know who meatloaf was.
            >> >> I sent the link to work to look at it in IE, and I guess that
            >> >> will make the site work so I will then know who he was. He looks
            >> >> like Jeb Clampet's son in The Beverly Hillbillies, but....
            >> >>
            >> >> Regards
            >> >> --
            >> >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> Gosh, sorry about that, Mike. Actually, if you want, you could
            > just
            >>> plug "Meat Loaf" in a search engine. (That other one was just a
            > fan
            >> > club.) There are many more sites, and you might find one that
            >> > will open properly in your browser.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > Cari
            >>
            >> I'm not so anxious to know that I can't wait until tomorro, had I
            >> really wanted to know sooner, I could have forwarded it to the
            >> wife, she uses foxfire and has IE if it wouldn't work.
            >>
            >> Regards
            >> --
            >> Mike Leavitt ac998@l...
            >
            >
            > Well, in any case, this following link might be a bit more
            > informative than the other one:
            >
            > ( http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001533/ )
            >
            > *bio*: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001533/bio

            Yes, very informative. I had heard the name, but that was about it.
            I'm a bit surprised I didn't know who he was, even with my general
            disinterest in what he did.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998@...
          • pmcvflag
            Oh, yes, yes, Gerry, that is exactly what I meant... I mean, the musical style, compared to what we are often used to hearing in Meat Loaf, is so similar. To
            Message 5 of 26 , Nov 22, 2004
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              Oh, yes, yes, Gerry, that is exactly what I meant... I mean, the
              musical style, compared to what we are often used to hearing in Meat
              Loaf, is so similar. To me, Meat Loaf sounds like he belongs in
              musical theatre (though I don't know enough about him to know if he
              was involved with this genre outside of Rocky Horror)

              More to the point, I think the people from our group here will
              pretty quickly pick out the Platonist connections. I keep thinking I
              will take a second look at it myself.

              PMCV


              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
              wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > The meat loaf site locked up my first browser, and just gave me
              his
              > > picture and large black areas on the other two, so while you were
              > > right about meathead, I still don't know who meatloaf was. I
              sent
              > > the link to work to look at it in IE, and I guess that will make
              the
              > > site work so I will then know who he was. He looks like Jeb
              > > Clampet's son in The Beverly Hillbillies, but....
              > >
              > > Regards
              > > --
              > > Mike Leavitt
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Geeez, Mike, you must have been pretty busy since the 70's . . . ,
              > but if "Two Out of Three Ain't Bad" and the _Rocky Horror Picture
              > Show_ don't ring any bells for you, then Cari's link may not help
              you
              > anyway.
              >
              > Going back to the beginning, here's a very brief plot outline for
              the
              > movie I mentioned earlier:
              >
              > "A transexual punk rock girl from East Berlin tours the US with
              her
              > rock band as she tells her life story and follows [i.e. "stalks"]
              the
              > ex-boyfriend/bandmate who stole her songs."
              > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0248845/
              >
              > The "ex-boyfriend" there is a reference to the character of Tommy
              > Gnosis, whom I described previously as stealing and bastardizing
              > Hedwig's music. There is a point in the film where the
              protagonist
              > realizes not only that Tommy has abandoned her in pursuit of his
              own
              > stardom, but that he isn't fully aware of the meaning of the
              lyrics,
              > for example, changing the name of the god "Osiris" to "Cyrus" in
              the
              > song "Origin of Love." This is what I was alluding to with
              regards
              > to popular understanding of "Gnosticism." Tommy managed to make
              his
              > stage name (Gnosis) a pop icon, even though he was still somewhat
              > ignorant of the actual meaning of the lyrics which Hedwig had
              > provided him. As a proponent of the importance of meaning, I
              suppose
              > that part of the film really stuck in my craw.
              >
              > Anyway, it was interesting to see PMCV's mention of Meat Loaf.
              I'm
              > sure he'll clarify if I read him incorrectly, but the reference
              might
              > have come from the fact that this film, like the Rocky Horror
              Picture
              > Show (in which Meat Loaf appeared), was also a campy production.
              He
              > might have also found a similarity in musical styles. In fact,
              Meat
              > Loaf had considered performing a couple songs from the "Hedwig"
              > soundtrack on an album he was working on at the time, but ended up
              > not having enough room, if I recall correctly.
              >
              > For the record, "campy" is not to be taken as a disparaging
              comment
              > above. On the contrary, I think it lends to the endearing humor
              of
              > the film, which also conveys the profound story of an individual's
              > quest for "wholeness." As I said earlier, the movie was both
              funny
              > and moving——or——as PMCV described the music, it was
              > simultaneously "cheesy" and "skilled." Absolutely, and the genius
              > that was responsible for that lay in the talent of John Cameron
              > Mitchell and Stephen Trask, the latter supplying not only the
              musical
              > score for the production, but the vocals for Tommy Gnosis as well.
              >
              > Honestly, even if I hadn't appreciated the movie for its
              > philosophical merit, I'd probably still recommend it to friends
              just
              > for the dialogue and visuals . . . especially in the Gummi-Bärchen
              > scene . . . or perhaps for any of the references to young Hedwig
              > (Hansel) having to play in the oven! ;-)
              >
              > Gerry
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