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Re: Clement of Alexandria + the Secret Gospel of Mark

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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello lady_caritas ... I will let Thomas speak for himself if he wants to, but I will point out his major accomplishment for gnosis, so he won t have too. His
    Message 1 of 61 , Sep 21 7:48 AM
      Hello lady_caritas

      On 09/21/04, you wrote:

      > Mike, thank you. I find this very interesting. I imagine that
      > emphasis of inner knowledge over faith was very helpful.
      > I've always wondered about children who are involved in a modern
      > Gnostic setting as part of their upbringing from a young age. People
      > I run into who have an interest in Gnosticism are adults or young
      > adults, who haven't had exposure to Gnosticism in their youth.
      > Mike, your children (hi, out there, Thomas), of course had this
      > experience. Any semblance of formal teaching or guidance,... or not?
      > Also, do many (or any) people bring children to your church on a
      > regular or even infrequent basis? Any other insights you or Thomas
      > or others might have as to how or whether to approach young children
      > about Gnostic ideas?

      I will let Thomas speak for himself if he wants to, but I will point
      out his major accomplishment for gnosis, so he won't have too. His
      Gnostic Archive became www.gnosis.org.

      We had no catechism classes or formal training, but listening to
      Stephan's homilies week after week had its affect, as did attending
      the mass. My younger son has not been that active, but gnosticism
      does influence his thought, and he does attend church on rare
      occasions. I never wanted to force religion on either of them, so I
      just exposed them to it. My mother was the same with me. I started
      reading on my own.

      Mike Leavitt ac998@...
    • annie
      I tend to see it more as the latter. If you take this as Christ being the Logos, and John the B being the demiurge (or rather their representations), then
      Message 61 of 61 , Sep 24 10:13 AM
        I tend to see it more as the latter.  If you take this as Christ being the Logos, and John the B being the demiurge (or rather their representations), then when the Logos descended, gnosis was then available to each individual, rather than through the prophets which the demiurge sanctioned.  The logos replaced all priests, and the spirit within us replaced the prophets.  We are now qualified to be our own prophet, in other words.  This is just my understanding from a combined variety of sources and insight.
        I also think he's getting onto James more for the reason that James is still searching superficially, instead of inwardly following the lead that Jesus gave.  James wants more explanations, kind of like he's being lazy and instead of thinking his way there, he wants a 'gimme'.
        love from annie
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 10:21 AM
        Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: John the Baptist

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "janahooks" <janahooks@y...>
        > Thanks, Cari.  So does the following passage simply mean that the
        > time for prophecy is over, everything has come to pass?  (I hope
        > that's somewhere close to the meaning since Jesus basically calls
        > James a ninny for not understanding. :)    jana
        > "Then I asked him, "Lord, how shall we be able to prophesy to those
        > who request us to prophesy to them? For there are many who ask us,
        > and look to us to hear an oracle from us."
        > The Lord answered and said, "Do you not know that the head of
        > prophecy was cut off with John?"
        > But I said, "Lord, can it be possible to remove the head of
        > prophecy?"
        > The Lord said to me, "When you come to know what 'head' means, and
        > that prophecy issues from the head, (then) understand the meaning
        > of 'Its head was removed.' At first I spoke to you in parables, and
        > you did not understand; now I speak to you openly, and you (still)
        > not perceive. Yet, it was you who served me as a parable in
        > and as that which is open in the (words) that are open."
        > http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/jam.html

        That sounds good to me, jana.

        Cutting off the head of prophecy is quite an explicit image when
        considering John the Baptist, isn't it?  Now that the Lord is here,
        the prophecy of John's has been fulfilled.  Why would there be a need
        for continued prophecy? 

        Also, consider Logion 46 from _The Gospel of Thomas_:
        Jesus said, "From Adam unto John the Baptist there has been none
        among the offspring of women who has been more exalted than John the
        Baptist, so that such a person's eyes might be broken.  But I have
        said that whomever among you (plur.) becomes a little one will become
        acquainted with the kingdom, and will become more exalted than John."

        I also see John as possibly a representation of an exalted
        prophetic "head" honcho able to directly prophesize that someone
        would be superseding him.  John is a man nonetheless, whose psychic
        limitations ("head" possibly even also representing a psychic
        awareness) are supplanted by the appearance of the Christ.  No need
        to get stuck in neutral, going around in circles, with continued,
        showy psychic prophecies at this point.  All those (little ones)
        acquainted with the kingdom are indeed more exalted than John.
        Perhaps other members have additional ideas.


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