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9495Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnosis: experience or theory?

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  • Gregory D Torres
    May 6, 2004
      I agree with you on your opion on how important
      history is. Those who dont remember the past are
      doomed. After 15 years of research on the nature of
      people. I have found that we all judge every thing and
      everyone. It is the way that one goes about it that
      maters.This will have a negative or poitive influence
      on the responce they will get. BE kind and choose
      carfully the words you use to judge...

      aude sepre

      --- lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "synthesehalevi"
      <synthesehalevi@y...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > BTW, Scott, I realized there are a couple of
      points I did not
      > > (due to your formatting problems)
      > >
      > > you state...
      > >
      > > >>There is no evidence that these are *levels* of
      initiation or
      > > initiations at all. We do not know if they were
      *seuqential* or
      > > *progressive* (stepping stone) or any such thing.
      > > perhaps, but that's about as much as we can say
      with any
      > >
      > > SO, by your reasoning we could equally state that
      Gnostics meant
      > > leave the pneumatic behind and find hylicism.
      Actually, Philip
      > > states quite explicitly that the person reaches
      levels in a
      > > sequential order. Gentile, Jew, then Christian.
      AND, all the
      > > agree that the bridal chamber does not happen
      before baptism.
      > > for me a single scholor that does not agree that
      these are
      > > initiatory levels, or a single source that
      disagrees with the
      > > intances that ARE stated.
      > > PMCV
      > Hi -
      > What about the actual EXPERIENCE of the living
      Gnosis, as opposed
      to scholarly theses about It?
      > From what I have gleaned during the past few days of
      reading the
      recent posts, only Scott Fraser is demonstrating some
      experience of Gnosis. The rest of the contributing
      members seem to be
      quite content in theorizing, academiciszing about it.
      > To me this seems to be the difference between a
      psychic and
      pneumatic (true Gnostic). This is all okay, of course,
      but as the
      wisdom of Dirty Harry testifies: "A man has to know
      his limitations!"
      > Would it not be wise to listen and seek through a
      man who
      demonstrates some actual living experience?
      > Even a dumb mule can carry lots of books!
      > Sincerely,
      > y

      y ~

      I was tempted to delete this post, as I find it
      inflammatory, but I
      decided to respond to make a point. You are a new
      member. You read
      a few posts and disparagingly decide whom to label
      psychic or
      pneumatic. I find that rather sophomoric and not at
      all encouraging
      respectful, constructive dialogue. Oh, surely, there
      have been
      other members who have suggested these labels of other
      group members
      during discussion. They have usually been less
      direct. I still view
      it as heckling and not acceptable in our group.
      Whether or not
      anyone even might be considered hylic, psychic, or
      pneumatic is not a
      reason for insensitive criticism.

      Perhaps I need to yet again reiterate the focus of our
      group. The
      focus of our group is historical, classical
      Gnosticism. This focus
      does not mean that we are only a history club. We
      invite those who
      wish to discuss their personal paths, to discuss
      Gnosis, "their
      actual EXPERIENCE of the living Gnosis." BUT, in our
      group this
      discussion is compared/contrasted to those historical
      Gnostics. We
      discuss within a *context*. Now, y, how can we do
      that if we don't
      try to explore what those Gnostics said, thought,
      experienced? Did
      they become "one with God," but still maintain a faith
      in atonement
      theology? Not to my knowledge. Did they become "one
      with God" and
      believe that "all is one" in a pantheistic or
      solipsistic sense? Not
      to my knowledge. How do I know that? I find out
      information through
      reading original sources in addition to academic
      exegesis provided by
      people who care to take the time to explore these
      ancients. I also
      learn much from discussion with others. And, in the
      end, my own
      experience comes into play when interpreting this

      Members in this group are here for a variety of
      reasons. Some are
      following a path of Gnosis and wish to share with
      others; some are
      just curious and would like to find out more
      information. There are
      many internet lists that define Gnosis very broadly
      and are in
      existence for the sole purpose of discussing inner
      spiritual paths.
      We choose to do so within a specific context, one that
      needs to be
      discussed at times in order to describe and relate to
      it. So, please
      do not be misled into thinking that reading a few
      posts will give you
      insight into the spirit within this group. Not all
      members even care
      to openly discuss their personal paths. That is their
      On the other hand, we are not looking for
      proselytizers or gurus. We
      all learn from each other here.

      And, it is our prerogative to insist that you desist
      from identifying
      group members categorically according to your
      perception of their
      grasp of Gnosis.

      Thank you.


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