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7482Re: Investigation: The Alpha and the Omege = (Adam and Eve)

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  • Steve Wenninger
    Apr 6, 2003
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
      wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Terje Bergersen" <terje@b...>
      > wrote:
      > >
      >
      > > I am in the process of finishing my reading of Yuri
      Stoganov "The
      > Other
      > > God" - which is a very thorough historical survey of religious
      > dualism
      > > from late antiquity until the end of the Cathar movement.
      >
      >
      > Terje, what an interesting exposé. Thank you.
      >
      > I have a friend who recommended this very book, _The Other God_.
      He
      > said it was quite scholarly, detailed, and heavily annotated,
      > charting the flow of religious dualism you mention.
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Among both Manichaeans, Cathars and even some Gnostic groups -
      You
      > will
      > > find _two origins_ teachings which are essentially dualist
      > > in nature - among these are the discussion of the fallen angels
      and
      > their
      > > offspring. Remember the Nephilim debates?
      > > Anyways, a significant feature among the Languedocian Cathars is
      so-
      > called
      > > _traducianism_ which is a counterweight to other Cathar groups
      > speculation
      > > about Metempsychosis; traducianism essentially features the
      > position of a
      > > _substantial_ origin for mankind from one or two ancestors; the
      two
      > > ancestors variant of this posits that the souls of mankind
      > originate from
      > > _one substance_ and _one subject_ or personality which got
      > imprisoned in
      > > the material body by the demiurge in order for his control over
      the
      > being
      > > in question, and also for the "multiplication" of such glory the
      > demiurge
      > > believes to generate from such control, by the introduction of
      > > reproduction ...
      >
      > [...]
      >
      > > Traducianism posits that there
      > > are no individual souls as such, each "individual" is nothing
      but an
      > > unredeemed and exiled "particle" or "fragment" of the original
      > Great soul
      > > - and presents a doctrine of how the division came about, the
      > evolution of
      > > this division as well as predicting a reassembling, or
      > reintegration of
      > > the small parts into the Great Soul. This Great Soul is
      invariably
      > refered
      > > to as Adam Kadmon, Adam+Eve the Androgyne etc.
      >
      >
      >
      > Your discussion of traducianism reminds me of what a different
      take
      > the Cathars would have had in the myth variation of a demiurgic
      > element imprisoning an original soul substance, compared to
      > traducianism (followed by Tertullian, Luther, and I believe the
      > Eastern church), for example (as interpreted by Tertullian), where
      > the soul as well as the body come directly from the human parents
      > (soul substance transmitted through corporeal semen). In the
      latter
      > case, even though "God" originally breathed the breath of life
      into
      > Adam, the propagation of a "sinful" nature due to transmission of
      a
      > nonmaterial nature (soul) by secondary means, material hosts (the
      > parents and all their genes, etc.), would tend to support their
      view
      > of man's basically tainted, depraved nature even better than
      > creationism in which every soul is immediately created out of
      nothing
      > by "God." Please correct me if my understanding is not accurate
      here.
      >
      > The Cathar reassembling of divided or exiled "particles" into an
      > original "Great Soul" seems to resemble a bit more of a gnostic
      theme
      > of reintegration into an original androgyny or unity.
      >
      >
      > Cari

      This also is reminiscent of the myth of Adam Kadmon in the
      Lurianic Kabbalah. However, in the system of Isaac Luria, the reason
      for the shattering of the primal unity was that the "vessel" could
      not contain the Light that was poured into it by God. -Steve
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