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6269Re: Gnostic Gospels Chapter 1

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  • morphodyte
    Jul 13, 2002
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      --- In gnosticism2@y..., ernststrohregenmantelrad
      <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Dear Morphodyte. I really commend you on your knowledge on
      the
      > subject. I really apreciate your input.
      >

      Thank you Ernst, I also found a great deal interesting in your
      response.
      ( ...)

      > > the bureaucratic divide of Rome into East and West
      suggests a
      > > decentralization of power in late antiquity to make the vast
      > > Empire more manageable.
      > >
      >
      > On the side note to this the line that separates the East and
      West
      > Empire is STILL there. If you notice the western side is Roman
      > Catholism and the the eastern side is Orthodox. This in turn
      affected
      > the form of writing as well as the West uses the Latin alpahbet
      and
      > the East (with the exception of Rumania and Albenia) uses
      Cyrillic
      > alphabet.

      Yes the ancient hatreds with the Serbs and Croats reflect the
      divide and animus between the Greek and Roma episcopate
      after the decision of Rome to centralize all authority at the
      Vatican. Given the recent wars started in Balkans, it is plain to
      see that the ancient Roman interests STILL play out in our day -

      Ernst is correct in saying that Rome never died -

      and Philip K. Dick also wrote to the same effect in Radio Free
      Albemuth when he also drew the parallel to the US and Soviet
      Union dividing up the world between East and West like Rome
      and Constantinople.

      > Roman Empire included Africa and that line is also visible.
      However,
      > it is not clearly distingishable unless you know something
      about
      > Arabic dialects. Arabic dialects could be divided into East and
      West
      > too and percise there that line falls in somewhere west of
      Eygypt. For
      > the dialects of Maghreb and that of Egypt and vastly different.
      Ok I
      > guess I ventured into off topic here.
      >

      Actually this is interesting and may also be reflected in the types
      of historical development we see in Islamic thought; just to
      speculate, we see the establishment of the Umayyad califat in
      Cordova and the Abbasid Baghdad califat in Babylon, again an
      East-West divide with the dicision falling somewhere along
      Tunis, until the formation of the Fatimid Califat for a period of two
      hundred years, and the foundation of Cairo.

      Similarly, the Califat in the Maghrib fell to the descendants of
      those same Goths, Vandals and Sueves that formerly drove out
      Rome. Like late Rome, the Califat of Cordova collapsed
      because of internal rivalries, fundamentalist religious
      movements ( Almohads and Murabitun) and disunited armies.

      The Fatimid califat, a resurgence of Ptolemaic Egypt, along with
      a variant form of Islam - Fatimid Ismailism and its neoplatonic
      and Alexandrian influences.

      >
      > > These aspects of the Empire functioned so well that when
      the
      > > Vandals sacked Rome, the religious arm of the Imperial
      > > government was able to survive and establish itself by the
      time
      > > of Charlemagne as a power functioning independently of the
      > > Constantinople government and its diaconate.

      And when Constantinople fell to the Turks, the Sultans only had
      to step into a bureaucracy that continued to function and serve
      the new Emperors, the Sultans who managed an empire which
      conformed more of less to old Byzantium.

      > Funny, you brought in goths and vandals. aren't they adhered to
      > Arianism form of Christianity at first? Can we make some
      connection here?
      >

      I have often wondered if the collapse of the West was due to
      some resentment or rebellion among the Visigothic
      commanders of Spain who continued to practice their Arian
      religion and resented the imposition of Trinity by Nicea.

      Also, Priscillianus of Avila was the first bishop of record
      executed for heresy. It is rumored that his remains are those in
      the pilgrimage spot of Santiago Camposella, not St. James.

      > > England. the next blow was the French Revolution and the
      loss
      > > of political power in France.

      (>>>)
      (>>>)
      > Ooooh now you are getting into to the meat of it. I would like to
      > mention them in relation to the Vatican bank scandal (money
      laudrying
      > with Italian and american mafias) and a bogus masonic lodge
      P-2 which
      > have great deal to do with the death of JP I (which became a
      sub-plot
      > for the movie "Godfather III") and shooting of the current Pope.
      >

      Yes, JP-I seems to have been 'put to sleep' by those interested
      in installing someone more attuned to regaining temporal power
      after John XXIII managed to dismantle so much with Vatican 2.

      > > The Church continues to expand its base in Latin America,
      the
      > > Phillipines and in Africa - Opus Dei waiting in the wings.
      >
      > Yes, indeed but too but mother Theresa, the propagandaist for
      them
      > died. Who would they turn to now?
      > >

      Actually, their current Modus Operandi is to use 'liberation
      theology' and community intervention in the form of health clinics,
      pharmaceuticals and hospitals and schools- for example in
      Guatemala where the Church has managed to play Government
      against the indigenous Maya - offering the Maya safety if they
      practice Catholic religion rather than the ancient Maya.
      (>>>)
      > And one more thing is the use of monetary system which is
      quiet liken
      > to that of Rome.
      >

      The coin of Caesar, I agree very much so.

      > > Right now American republicanism (the USA is not a true
      > > democracy, contrary to popular belief) is threatened by the
      > > increasing powers of the Executive and its support from
      > > Christian extremists - much the same as in late antiquity.
      > >
      > It is disturbing that these people coupled with extreme zionists
      and
      > Islamists (Wahabism-Islamo-fascists) are getting control.
      >

      Fundamentalism is a curious reaction to modernity, let us not
      forget Americans are just as violently fundamentalist over two
      main issues;

      abortion

      teaching evolution in schools.

      These two issues alone have given what would otherwise be
      regarded as backwater hicks a major control of American
      politics.

      recent comments by Southern baptist leadership calling
      Muhammad a demonic pedophile bode ill for the couse of
      American destiny; perhaps we will again see witch burnings if
      these rabid bigots are not reigned in.

      (>>>>)
      > but thanks to the 9-11 Reichtag incidents the rights are slowly
      > striping away for the reason of National Security. So we must
      get
      > these terrorists, right?

      Like the Reichstag, the 9-11 has given the Brown Shirts in
      American politics the rule of the day - anyone suspected of
      'terrorism' can now be hauled off to tribunal without legal counsel
      or due process - the "terrorists" have succeeded in ways most
      Americans do not suspect; they have gotten us to destroy our
      own freedoms. Now police, having been made into heroes by
      sacrificing bodies at the Altar of 1 and 2 World Trade Center act
      with impunity to beat up and harrass not "terrorists" but blacks,
      hispanics, and people middle eastern descent - anyone with a
      brown skin, because the now common perception is that they
      are all heroes.

      Homeland Security - Fatherland the resemblances are all to
      scary.

      >Like in rome we must protect from German
      > barbarians. but you know I think these barberians and roman
      officials
      > knew each other. hhhmmm I wonder bin Ladin and Bush .....
      >

      yes, the Goth armies were in the employ of Rome, they grew the
      wheat for Roman bread on the banks of Guadalquivir, citrus from
      Valencia, wine from Seville, olive oil - hmmm. Now we get
      petroleum oil from the very enemies we would protect our
      empire from.
      (>>>>)
      > Hey, Lincoln didn't care for black slaves. His plan was to send
      them
      > all back to Africa. (Like Liberia which is what that nation was
      > created) And right it was the state rights that was lost in the
      > American Civil War.

      Agreed, the emancipation was aimed only at the dismantling of
      Southern agriculture and economy to favor polictical and
      economic control by the industrialized North - get the black to
      migrate North to work for low wage in the textile factories .

      Too bad the issue that used in the state rights
      > was slavery which had moral consequeces. I think we could
      again insert
      > the state's rights this time by bringing up the medical marijana.
      >

      The predecessor in the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs" - say
      goodbye to amendments 4, 5, 9, to protect us from the demon
      weed and wage undeclared war on villagers in Mexico and the
      Andes. The war on Drugs sets a bad precedent for the War on
      Terror since they are both unspecified and undefined enemies;
      no clear objectives or outcomes and terrorism like drug is a
      matter of definition, someday refusing to say Pledge Allegiance
      could get suspect of terrorist sympathy and jail - we live in
      Orwellian times.

      Terrorist, like Christian in the Colusseum - anyone suspected
      can be fed to Lions, or in this case, the Police. Quickly our
      country has forgotten the lessons of McCarthy era where anyone
      could be suspect of Communism - and like a witch, only took the
      suspicion to be accused and convicted.

      The value of Gnosticism in our times cannot be understated
      because it is of course a message of Freedom, not dogma or
      doctrine nor Law nor State. The times we live in are an echo of
      our ancestors, the Rome that never died.

      Morph
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