5880Re: Thomasine Metaphor
- May 16, 2002Ah, Will, I am in total agreement with you (Message #5877) until we
get to your explanations of quotes from the article on "error."
In answer to your question, "Are we looking at the same thing?"
(#5878), I would venture to posit that we possibly are, but that we
are interpreting it differently.
So, Will, you have confused me. Don't worry. I confuse easily.
LOL If you view thinking of oneself in terms of time as "error," and
if after a shift in the sense of one's self, you obviously remain a
human physically, do you still wear a watch? How does a human ever
completely escape our space/time continuum? "Time" may very well be
an illusion, but even in your description of this process, you can't
escape describing it in terms of "before" and "after." You see, even
using a term like "eternal" indicates infinite "duration"
(or "continuance in time").
You say, "What is then known is not the kingdom, but the end of the
temporal sense of self, the Error. That is all that is known; the
rest is the unknown." So, Willy, if you have experienced the end of
the temporal sense of yourself, where on earth _are_ you?
Okay, okay, I'm toying with you. But I do have a point, . . . I
I describe the old sense of self as certainly having temporal aspects
and because of that only viewing the world in physical and possibly
psychological terms. A "god" or even a definition of "spirituality"
would in essence still be a psychological extension of the self
because the shift in sense of self with a truly pneumatic
understanding has not occurred. You describe this shift in
understanding when you say, "A metaphorical system may be seen as
pointing to such a transition, but that fact can only be known after
the transition has come into being. That same metaphorical system can
also be interpreted in a before-transition way. The difference
between the before and after understanding gleaned from the system is
incommensurable. This is key to my scheme of things; the before view
and the after view of the same metaphorical system are separated by a
necessary transition in the one who holds the view, and since those
views are incommensurable one with the other, the transition
represents a discontinuity in one's sense of self."
So, you accept the term "spiritual" only in reference to the
transitional stage. "Ascribing the before to the world of matter and
the after to the other world, the spiritual" is not your
Let's attempt to examine why.
Perhaps your definition of "spiritual" differs from mine. You said
that you could "see how the sensation of the transition could be seen
as `being at one with.'" Yes, the mystical experience might be
interpreted as such. However, we can conjecture that if we are
_truly_ one with the Prime Source we might cease to "be." And, well,
that hasn't happened yet, has it? LOL We either come back to the
old self and repeatedly try to recreate the "at-one" sensation or we
move through the transition, taking our new understanding to a new
sense of self.
Now at this point, you, Willy, seem to be in "unknown" territory, but
you sense a "fullness" and repose you did not experience in the old
self. I describe this as the spiritual realm. And, I don't view God
as an anthropomorphic, psychological projection, but rather, as I
have described before, I experience an Ineffable Infinite through my
new sense of self. At the same time, I am still human. So, I cannot
completely know the Infinite in my present finite state. There is
movement and repose as I gain acquaintance of this divinity,
" But the kingdom is inside of you. And it is outside of you."
(GTh, #3) Why? Can there be an objective Truth that exists "before"
as well as "after" my shift of awareness? Are we awakening from our
sleep to a kingdom that was already there? I would
speculate,. . .yes, .. simply because I am not the only one who has
experienced this, after the shift in sense of self. This "presence"
I interpret as the divine, a sort of pneumatic glue that connects the
divine sparks in us all. And, this is not the same as devising some
Object as a projection upon returning to a temporal sense of self.
So, we come back to earth and relate in a practical way with
the "fullness" of our new sails that keep us afloat as we journey
through the temporal waters.
Don't know if I've made any sense here. It's late. LOL
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