Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

13859Re: Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven

Expand Messages
  • kurt31416
    Apr 15, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      There's more evidence for a historical Jesus than for Socrates. Other than kings that wrote it on walls, it's all hearsay. We have actual physical scraps of things said by Jesus within about 100 years of his death. We have nothing Socrates said within about 1000 years of his death.

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Des. I'm not sure if you're actually interested in a historical Jesus or whether you're just tracing the character in stories. It seems that much of mainstream Christian scholarship spends a lot of time and energy on a historical Jesus when historicity of Jesus is not a certainty, especially as portrayed in various gospels. There are no reliable controls outside gospel accounts to corroborate his existence, even though everyone has a right to belief or faith in such a person, if that is their interest.
      >
      > The ancient Gnostics seemed more concerned in Jesus as part of their theology, and finding esoteric meaning within the mythology, rather than as a character in a solely historical account.
      >
      > Cari
      >
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "kurt31416" <kurt31416@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Des Adams" <sirdesmond1@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > From Des, I’ve read the Gnostic Bible and have been meditating and reading postings on Gnosticism for a few months now. What I am inquiring about and may be someone out there knows. Was Jesus and Paul
      > >
      > > Jesus and Paul were mortal enemies. Paul slaughtered most of the followers of Jesus according to Acts and the letters of Paul. It's as likely as not that Paul was involved in killing Jesus too.
      > >
      > > > the apostle of the north Israel group of the Essences or were they of another group,
      > >
      > > Virtually nothing is known of the Essenes. The Christians and Jews never mention them in their writings. They had nothing to do with Qumran or the Dead Sea Scrolls. They pin it on the Essenes, since it's inconvenient for Christians and Jews. Turns out, for instance, the Dead Sea Scrolls are as close or closer to the Samaritan version of the Torah than the Masoretic the Jews use.
      > >
      > > > which went back to the Buddha to which Paul Christianised “The Way” which is in the book of Acts?
      > >
      > > Jesus and apparently Paul were totally oblivious to the Buddha. Not a single solitary parallel. Lots to the Greeks including the Cynics, but not Buddha.
      > >
      > > >
      > > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > > From: brownbagprd@
      > > > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 5:16 PM
      > > > Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I am quite sure this Gnostic doesn't know what an "Ennead" is.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Neal
      > > >
      > > > Gnostic and other Judeo-Christian materials/ subjects at
      > > > http://iontruth.blogspot.com/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Chester <chesterelders28@>
      > > > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 6:46 pm
      > > > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Orthodoxy assumes the great gnostic texts were written during the halcyon years of the church. According to the official line, they were composed as a direct challenge to the authority of the nascent Christian faith. We know, now that orthodoxy is an anachronism; at most, there was only a proto-orthodoxy in the early to middle second century. Elaine Pagels has persuasively argued that orthodoxy was primarily a political attempt at control over the various recalcitrant churches. So; the question arises: Why do we search the gnostic scriptures, now? At most, they have an historical and antiquarian value. Why do we presume, though that these ancient writings conceal hidden wisdom? I dearsay that few, if any new-age gnostics know of, or care about the Enneads by Plotinus. Yet, straightforward philosophical works contain more truth than obtuse speculations embellished with religious trappings.
      > > >
      > > > Of course; The Hypostasis of the archons contains legitimate attempts at understanding intractable questions, perhaps even the most intractable question, of all: What is our role in the cosmos? I don't object to appreciating what, say the Gospel of Judas alleges about the nature of God. What I do object to is mining the gnostic texts for passwords to heaven. The cosmologies and cosmogonies of the gnostics are long exploded. I'm incredulous at those who actually believe they can descern the geography of heaven from 2000 years old writings; and yet, would scoff at anyone who claims Jesus is the son of God by appealing to Holy Scripture.
      > > >
      > > > What I'm inveighing against is the shallow supposition that history colluded with Christian orthodoxy to conceal truth which can now be had by tabloid-crazed new-age zealots. I put them on the same intellectual level as those sad street people who wear tinfoil hats to protect themselves from alien rays. Of course, if burning incense and chanting passages from a Mandean text gives you the illusion of being closer to the divine, then have at it. After all, that is your constitutional right. But, if you want to be a serious student of gnosticism, then reconcile yourself to this truth: God is not to be found in some yellowing palimpsest. The divine can only be gleaned in our efforts to discern the law behind the law.
      > > >
      > > > Chester
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2809 - Release Date: 04/14/10 06:22:00
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Show all 15 messages in this topic