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13844Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven

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  • Ank Kelly
    Apr 14, 2010
      Agreed with this statement, but then, what does and do we know we are there? (heaven). Would it  - the password - be coming with the morning mail, or have to be earned by the sweat of thy Brow. camels that can pass through needles?

      Mmmm, maybe this is simply a reflex of this 'instant' this and that of this 'civilisation', and under the same heading as instant Karma, although I am sure we have all had this or wished it likewise on someone else. I know I have.

      What was it again in the bible, when Jesus cures a blind man (and maybe , JUST maybe that is an allegory for someone whose eyes were suddenly opened to a truth) and his disciples ask him to the cause of his blindness that he says that this is 'God's work'?

      Indeed, will we ever learn? That we are all One?

      When will we no longer confuse the messengers with the message? imho that is a distraction.

      I agree with Tommy that some of the texts are hard to read, let alone to interpret I have to admit to my embarrassment. I will be the first to admit I am notoriously dense in some ways.

      Totally agreed on Socrates, that would be the way forward, there is definitely a good side to this.

      About Ennead, the Nine, the council of Nine, also Nine deities described in Mayan mythology,

      http://www.calleman.com/content/articles/999_and_the_mayan_calendar.htm

      and nine dimensions

      please don't take my word for it.

      Might it be some universally felt principle, mayhaps in the 'archetypal realm', some marker that we are all at least on the way of becoming one?

      Words are words and can always be twisted, unfortunately.

      for me it goes something like this: I run the materials that I find past an inner 'program' that I developed, where conditions like integrity, no idolatry (people as gods), no expensive workshops, no selling of product, is it consistent (nothing wrong with the tree of knowledge), is it logical (borg/vulcan in any which combo), does it make sense to my humble self in this state of 'progress' will have to be met.

      I liked what I read about gnosticism, because some of it explained the experiences I have had, not all of them, but some. I am guessing there is a universal principle at work here and am curious about that.

      There is but one truth - in the end - and many myriads of ways to get to this truth and many different systems (not confusing the tools with the goal).

      The last words are given over to Jesus/Jeshua/Joshua:
      One example of how words' are interpreted differently here:
      http://www.heartlight.org/wjd/mark/0521-wjd.html#Fulltext

      Who do they say I am?

      hopes this makes any sense.

      Ank

      laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


      --- On Wed, 14/4/10, Tommy <tburns2012@...> wrote:

      From: Tommy <tburns2012@...>
      Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven
      To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, 14 April, 2010, 3:21

       

      i tried to stay with 'chester' [re: below comment] but I think i fell asleep too many times to figure out what he means and where he was going with this mixed up 'copy-paste' comment. i mean, i thought the gnostic books and kabalah were hard to follow for many many years...so maybe i'm missing something here.
      Maybe i just need to get a round tuit. With that i could re-read & decipher anything. I just never seem to be able to get a round tu-it.

      Was it my crossed eyes or is chester trying to say that old books have no purpose other than being nice scenery in ones library or some such nonsense?
      And wasn't there a book already written a while back about the fire department and burning useless books? Fahrenheit something... i think...

      And what about poor Ennead? What if someone had destroyed all the 'useless old books' [my quotes] from before his time? What would he study to become a philosopher?
      Does Chester know that the greatest library of all time was in Egypt & that it was burned down by religious zealots & then the head of the place, a most incredible Lady holding five university degrees {Hypatia}, was drug from her chariot on the way to open the Library {of Alexandria} by those same ignorant people with the matches & they stripped her skin from her body with abalone shells?

      When will we ever learn? {probably never from the looks of it}

      And by the way, i don't consider following my spirit/soul/ curiousity' s needs...to be a constitutional right even if it is. It is MY right to go peacefully and do no harm as I search the globe for kernels of Knowledge... can i get an amen, Sophia? AMEN!
      Perchance Chester should forgo his random, confused tirade for a moment and go read Socrates.
      Now there's a read...of course one must first READ Plato to READ Socrates because Socrates NEVER wrote any thing down. The great ones never do!

      Side bar:
      Here in Mississippi an 'Ennead' is a greeting made by a friend to anyone called Ned..ie: 'Eh-Ned, whar'd you get them hound dogs Uh saw you a hunten with yasterday, eh?'

      --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, brownbagprd@ ... wrote:
      >
      >
      > I am quite sure this Gnostic doesn't know what an "Ennead" is.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Neal
      >
      > Gnostic and other Judeo-Christian materials/ subjects at
      > http://iontruth. blogspot. com/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Chester <chesterelders28@ ...>
      > To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 6:46 pm
      > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Gnosticism Does Not Posess Passwords To Heaven
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Orthodoxy assumes the great gnostic texts were written during the halcyon years of the church. According to the official line, they were composed as a direct challenge to the authority of the nascent Christian faith. We know, now that orthodoxy is an anachronism; at most, there was only a proto-orthodoxy in the early to middle second century. Elaine Pagels has persuasively argued that orthodoxy was primarily a political attempt at control over the various recalcitrant churches. So; the question arises: Why do we search the gnostic scriptures, now? At most, they have an historical and antiquarian value. Why do we presume, though that these ancient writings conceal hidden wisdom? I dearsay that few, if any new-age gnostics know of, or care about the Enneads by Plotinus. Yet, straightforward philosophical works contain more truth than obtuse speculations embellished with religious trappings.
      >
      > Of course; The Hypostasis of the archons contains legitimate attempts at understanding intractable questions, perhaps even the most intractable question, of all: What is our role in the cosmos? I don't object to appreciating what, say the Gospel of Judas alleges about the nature of God. What I do object to is mining the gnostic texts for passwords to heaven. The cosmologies and cosmogonies of the gnostics are long exploded. I'm incredulous at those who actually believe they can descern the geography of heaven from 2000 years old writings; and yet, would scoff at anyone who claims Jesus is the son of God by appealing to Holy Scripture.
      >
      > What I'm inveighing against is the shallow supposition that history colluded with Christian orthodoxy to conceal truth which can now be had by tabloid-crazed new-age zealots. I put them on the same intellectual level as those sad street people who wear tinfoil hats to protect themselves from alien rays. Of course, if burning incense and chanting passages from a Mandean text gives you the illusion of being closer to the divine, then have at it. After all, that is your constitutional right. But, if you want to be a serious student of gnosticism, then reconcile yourself to this truth: God is not to be found in some yellowing palimpsest. The divine can only be gleaned in our efforts to discern the law behind the law.
      >
      > Chester
      >

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