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13042Re: Mysticism a Regressional Experience?

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  • Verna Leigh Johnson
    Apr 5, 2007
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      I am in complete aggreance with you. This feeling of alieness,
      aloneness and isolation has always existed with me as well (and to
      most all gnostics, ancient and modern). My OBEs and NDEs (altho they
      are not from an accident or anything - they are from a seizure
      disorder I inherited) gave me the knowledge not only that this
      reality was not the only one, and the experieneces (except one)
      filled me with me with undescribable joy and peace, which as you
      said, tends to fade in the return to the mundane world.
      And you are spot on about society, and its control games, which is
      used to keep us as consumeristic slaves, and far eaiser to control.
      For that is why. is for control and dominance.
      The gnostics of old were fighting the same political as well as
      spiritual battles we face today, but as you also mentioned in a post,
      that literacy is more prevalent today, and thus it is getting harder
      and harder for the orthodox religions and society in general to keep
      controlling people with their brainwashing.
      But according to the gnostic ideas, Adam was trapped in the Garden of
      Eden, it was an illusion, (much as this reality is the entrapment for
      our minds), at least acording to the Apoch. of John. The archons
      created this Garden, and it can be seen as an allagory of the
      illusion of the mundane world as well. The snake freed us, if you
      remember, and the 'banishment' from the garden was nothing compared
      to the sin of the demiurge when the epinoia was trapped in
      corruptable matter to begin with. I would rather compare myself to
      wanting to rejoin the pleroma, rather than a return to the Garden.
      But we were put here for a reason, and not to be in some state of
      estatic bliss (altho that sure can be fun). In some Catharian texts
      (which wehter or not they were gnostic is a source of dissention, but
      to me they are as gnostic as manicheean texts or the Nag Hammadi)
      there is the idea that our 'souls' are those of fallen angels, who
      chose this existance. To aquire gnosis is to free yourself from the
      gilgumic (to use a kabbalistic term) cycle, and to rejoin the Great
      Unmanifest, but you can only do this thru gnosis. You came here to
      learn, to love, and to live. To just wait around for your death
      would not be the path to gnosis, and mirrors the attitude of the
      orthodox-'lets all just survive, and we can go to heaven.' This is a
      flawed view of your own existance. YOu were here for a reason, until
      you can figure out why, do the best you can, use your time here to
      help this screwed up society, it needs your imput. As I have in my
      email signature, and a quote from the aforementioned Dick
      Richardson, "Enjoy your journey thru time, ab eterno ad hoc, for
      eternity awaits"...
      Brightest blessings to you!
      whirled and inner peas

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Wycihowski"
      <tjwycihowski@...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, verna ward <imdarkchylde@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Blessings, Thomas!
      > > Wanted to respond off group, we will get a perverbial finger
      > shook at us, I have run into this on G2 before; it was made very
      > clear to me that they want to discuss gnoticism strictly in the
      > academic and historical sense, not in the reality of an experience
      > gnosis. They aren't bad, they just miss the point. Its their
      > group. If I may suggest another group I am on that discusses the
      > mystical experience of gnosis is
      > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Real-Gnosis/ . The owner(?) of
      > the group is Dick Richardson, a personal friend of mine and mystic,
      > altho he doesn't care for the 'religion' of gnosticism. He runs
      > Psychognosis network, and there is much to be learned from him, if
      > you are seeking info about the experience of gnosis.
      > > Now, that said, I agree with you, that our Root, (Dick calls it
      > the Ground of Being, I call it the ONE, or the Great Unmanifest),
      > what few experience, but it does rejuvinate the spirit. I had two
      > seperate and distinctly different experiences as OBEs that I am
      > discovering the truth.
      > > Could you describe your experinces? What preceeded, what it
      > like (as much as you can use our crude language to describe such a
      > wonderfully subtle experiences)? If you are interested, I can
      > describe mine as well.
      > > Walk in Light and Love!!
      > > whirled and inner peas
      > > Leigh (DarkChylde)
      > >
      > >
      > > Gnothi Seauton
      > Well, first of all the most prominent nature of it was having
      > returned "Home". I often have felt like an exile, and desired
      > to return to my "home". It's like wandering through a world of
      > a lot like Adam must have felt when he was banished from the Garden
      > of Eden, or Garden of Delight.
      > There was a sense that I had recovered a missing fragment of my
      > self, a self often that is in a divorce from the world I live in. I
      > suppose the best way toi describe it would be my Unconditioned
      > Society is always trying to manipulate our thoughts and our
      > via social pressure, expectations, the media, e.t.c . This creates
      > form of spiritual colonization that is just a devestating as the
      > colonization that occured when Native Americans were robbed of
      > land and their ways by the colonists, or what occured in Africa.
      > So this colonization is so insidious that eventually it corrupts
      > the original purity of the mind of their person, setting up various
      > illusions and deceptions that cause the person to be confused about
      > Who and What they are.
      > So there was that sense that I was Home and at the same time a
      > sense of inner joy that for a time, the journey was over for me. I
      > suppose it might have bene like if Adam had been able to sneak past
      > the guardian Cherub back into the Garden, if only for a minute.
      > The worst part was the sense of exile. In many ways, I have often
      > desired to die or at least have a NDE, so I can be enraptured in
      > sea of bliss and unity that lies beyond the leadened skies.
      > Inevietabley, one returns to the journey and the ceaseless
      > wandering. What I wants is like what the birds released by Noah
      > wanted, which is a place for me to rest and find peace from my
      > wanderings and to bask in a joy that is often difficult to remember.
      > My greatest fear has been to be totally socialized by this
      > heartless society that looks at people as machines and tools for
      > either their personal enrichment or for their use. In this society,
      > people are things, tools, machines. Once one autamaton teaches the
      > young to think that way, they create another autamaton who in turn
      > will take free human children and make them into consumer goods to
      > sold and bartered for pay.
      > Thank God they haven't mind-raped me to the point that I am just
      > another autamaton, wandering unthinkingly across the landscape. If
      > ever became like that, I hope God would be merciful and kill me.
      > What good is it to be alive, if your just a walking corpse and
      > your soul is dead within you?>
      > > Thomas Wycihowski <tjwycihowski@> wrote:
      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Verna Leigh
      > > <imdarkchylde@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Brightest Blessings, Thomas!
      > > > What a blessed name! You aren't kin to the famous (infamous?)
      > > > brothers that made the Matrix, are you?
      > > > I agree with you on a few of your points. As a beginner
      > > Kabbalist,
      > > > I am still discovering the 'truth' of the Garden of Eden story,
      > but
      > > I
      > > > am a Valentian to the core, so to speak, and that is what still
      > > > resonates within me, like scratching an itch that bugged me for
      > so
      > > > long.
      > > > It is interesting you consider 'agnostic' to be "intuitive
      > > knowledge
      > > > without the framework of conceptual thought." Knowledge is
      > gnosis,
      > > > not a 'collection of data, but 'knowledge' (as used by the
      > > > definition and alike in the Greek and Latin as well) thus a,
      > > meaning
      > > > anti, meaning 'against' would be without knowlegde in its
      > technical
      > > > sense.
      > > > But I understand your meaning, as I have had such 'mystical'
      > > > exeriences (altho I didn't know they were when I had them) in
      > > > form of OBEs, NDEs, and some I don't think have
      > a 'classification',
      > > > (or at least not one that can be pinned down). But having
      > > the
      > > > Ground of Being, the Great Unmainfest, the Father of the
      > Entirety,
      > > > whatever pigeonhole you wish to use, I can tell you there is NO
      > > > THINKING there, only an 'awareness' of self (not ego). I have
      > > > been told this, I KNOW this. You may contact me on my personal
      > > email
      > > > if you wish, as I have found this may not meet the definition
      > > > classification of Gnosticism in the traditional (an to some no
      > > longer
      > > > existant) sense and such discussions may not be encouraged, but
      > > > will still put in my two cents.
      > > > Whirled and inner peas
      > > > DarkChylde
      > > >
      > > > my email is imdarkchylde@
      > > >
      > > > Gnothi Seauton
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Thomas Wycihowski"
      > > > <tjwycihowski@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I'm continually fascinated by the story of the Garden of Eden
      > > and
      > > > > it's various version in Gnostic books.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > My take is that the Garden was a mystical experience that
      > > > > people of different religious experiences experience. In a
      > > by
      > > > a
      > > > > Transpersonal writer Ken Wilber, he more or less dissess Eden
      > as
      > > a
      > > > > pre-egoistic state where the differentiation between the self
      > and
      > > > the
      > > > > outside worn't exist.
      > > > >
      > > > > I disagree with that. In my opinion, the eating of the Tree
      > > > > Knowledge of Good and Evil was a divorcing of the counscious
      > > human
      > > > > being from the mystical sense of oneness that existed before.
      > > This
      > > > > was the "Fall" into matter.
      > > > >
      > > > > Thge author makes regression seem to be inicimal to spiritual
      > > > > progress. I belkeive that is a false dychotomy. My own
      > > perspective
      > > > is
      > > > > that it IS a form of Gnosis, I call Agnosis, or intuitive
      > > knowledge
      > > > > without the framework of conceptual thought.
      > > > >
      > > > > Anyways, a lot of mystical experience seems like to me a
      > > > regression
      > > > > to a earlier stae of perception and cognition.
      > > > >
      > > > > So do you think that some mystical experiences are regressive
      > in
      > > > > nature?
      > > > >
      > > > I have had what I would term "blissful" experiences. But I
      > > the way I get to it might be different then some people.
      > >
      > > While I am a hetrosexual in the general sense of the term, I'm
      > > also an AB (Adult Baby). So basically, my experience of these
      > > blissfull experiences, the closest I could say I got
      to "mystical",
      > > was ina "regressed" frame of mind.
      > > I really beleive the biggest problem people have is they seek to
      > > continually advance. While this is necessary in life (that which
      > does
      > > not grow dies), I also beleive we all must at times return to our
      > > Root for rejuvanation. I find it to be a spiritual experience,
      > myself.
      > >
      > > I am more of a Sethian, in that I beleive the Sethian line is the
      > > inheritors of the Gnosis. Ultimately, these experiences are so
      > > different, that they can't be framed mentally. In the mundane
      > sense,
      > > what can't be named or labelled can't be "known". But then how
      > a
      > > baby "know" his mothers love? How do we "know" someone loves us.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------
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      > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
      > >
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