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13037Re: Mysticism a Regressional Experience?

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  • Thomas Wycihowski
    Apr 3, 2007
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
      > Thomas
      > >>>My take is that the Garden was a mystical experience that many
      > people of different religious experiences experience. In a book by a
      > Transpersonal writer Ken Wilber, he more or less dissess Eden as a
      > pre-egoistic state where the differentiation between the self and
      > outside worn't exist.
      > I disagree with that. In my opinion, the eating of the Tree of
      > Knowledge of Good and Evil was a divorcing of the counscious human
      > being from the mystical sense of oneness that existed before. This
      > was the "Fall" into matter.
      > Thge author makes regression seem to be inicimal to spiritual
      > progress. I belkeive that is a false dychotomy. My own perspective
      > that it IS a form of Gnosis, I call Agnosis, or intuitive knowledge
      > without the framework of conceptual thought.<<<
      > I was not sure whether you mean to say you disagree with Ken
      > or to say that you disagree with the Gnostic text... or maybe both.
      > Your view does seem to echo a relatively common percpetion of Eden
      > in Christian and Jewish mystical thought. Perhaps you could take a
      > moment to explain how you feel that relates to Gnostic thought on
      > the subject.

      While I don't disagree with the Gnostic point of view, I think
      that what we need to remember is there is two ways to look at it.
      One would be that it is a good thing. We took a chance and by
      doing so delivered ourselves from a state of tragic ignorance. If we
      had remained in that state of counsciousness, would we really be any
      different then the lower animals on the evolution scale? Probably not.
      On the other hand, it IS an unmitigated tragedy. The suffering
      that has resulted, the horror, the pain, the unending madness of a
      world at war wit itself and the proliferation of more and deadlier
      weapons clearly point out how well our decision was.
      So is it good or bad, what they did? The answer is neither. Maybe
      it was necessary for our further development; maybe not.
      I don't disagree with them IF you mean we were scammed and that
      the "diety" didn't have our personal best interest in mind.
      > >>>So do you think that some mystical experiences are regressive in
      > nature?<<<
      > Personally, I tend to avoid valuating mystical experience in this
      > forum since my job here is to try and be a bit more objective.
      > However, perhaps others here have something to say on the subject.
      > get the impression that more than really talking about the function
      > of mystical experience, you may be talking about how you feel that
      > experience relates to a specific set of symbols... i.e. the Eden
      > story of Genesis. While there is no doubt that the Gnostic
      > understood this story differently, I think it is important that we
      > understand this particular story within the larger context of the
      > Gnostic world view and spiritual view before assuming the function
      > of the story in their usage even relates to what you are talking
      > about. Otherwise it is comparing apples and oranges.
      > PMCV

      I don't totally disagree with you. But I think that the geniuses
      and masters of Gnosticism would tell you themselves the danger of
      fossilizing what they wrote and making it into some kind of stonelike
      doctrine. They themselves were creative in their approach, and drew
      from many sources in their beleifs and spiritual explorations.
      So while I don't beleive we need to throw the baby out with the
      bathwater, I do not think Valantinus or the other Gnostic masters
      would be upset if we, in the 21st century, applied what we learned in
      expanding and developing what we have received from them.
      Gnosisticism is strongest and most resilienty in it's diversity.
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