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12811Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Mani & The Manicheans this Sunday on Coffee, Cigs & Gnosis!!!

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  • Miguel Conner
    Oct 28, 2006
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      Hi,

      Actually, mixing the interview I just noticed that BeDuhn does mention that Mani died in prison before any torture.  I got ahead of myself while doing side-research.

      And you're right-- we couldn't go too in depth in 45 minutes.  How Gnostic or Gnostic-at-all really wasn't touched upon.  I've still got a lot to cover on the show before I get into the deeper layers of Gnosticism or what is Gnosticism proper.   I know that Karen King will more than likely appear in the Spring, after she has recovered from surgery, so I'll tackle the issue then.

      As far as any 'extermination', BeDuhn simply referred to it as 'The Catholic Church using the power of the State to compete with Manichaeism'.  Many ways one can read that but I think it points to the obvious.

      Miguel


      pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      Hey Miguel

      >>>Really? I would say that 70% of the promo was taken directly
      from the interview. He did say that new evidence in Egypt is
      changing many scholar's views on Manichaeism.

      Hope you catch it. BeDuhn was a great interviewee. <<<

      I hope to catch it as well. It should be very interesting.

      As for the new evidence, I am guessing you mean the Kellis (aka
      Ismant el-Kharab) finds?

      Anyway, I wonder if perhaps Dr BeDuhn softened his explinations for
      the sake of accessibility. I understand there is a limit to what one
      can talk about in the short span of a radio show. Or heck, maybe he
      has changed his mind about some things. I will be curious to find
      out. Let me try to explain further what I meant when I stated that
      it seemed to me that much of the intro you presented didn't seem to
      reflect what he teaches in his class. Perhaps this could spark some
      conversation that would convince others to listen to the program as
      well, and read the book.

      >>>--The extraordinary life of the Prophet Mani, including his
      passion and execution because of an orthodox priesthood (does the
      story ever change?)<<<

      In his class Dr BeDuhn raised serious questions about the actuality
      of the execution account, favoring instead the account that has him
      passing away in prison.

      >>>--Dispelling the fable that Manicheans (like all other Gnostics)
      were world-haters by glancing at their sublime scriptures and
      wisdom.<<<

      I once considered Manichaeans to be a form of "Gnosticism" . It is Dr
      BeDuhn that convinced me otherwise. Actually, I was resistant to the
      recategorization, but I found Dr BeDuhn's arguments compelling.. .
      and in fact more recent scholars like Dr King seem to have similar
      views on the matter. I does point out some of the problems with the
      categorization in a vague way in the Manichaean Body, but in his
      class he was much more explicit.

      Well, those are just a couple of specific points. Of course, one
      does expect a greater level of caution to be presented in a
      university history class (and his class on Manichaeism was a higher
      level course) than in casual conversation, so I inderstand that part
      of what I may be pointing out could relate to that caution and a
      matter of technicalities that may seem less important in the
      interview setting. Questions like whether it is accurate to state
      that the Catholics "extermintated" the Manichaeans when they
      actually continued in the east for some time may essentially be a
      non-issue when the basic effect still stands.

      You all know by now that I am anal about such things *lol*.

      PMCV




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