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12768Re: Gnostic Baptism

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  • lady_caritas
    Sep 9, 2006
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
      > I'm glad to hear that Layton didn't include TT *lol*. BTW, I just
      > thought I would also add an interesting note for the group (maybe
      > will come up in the Essene conversation as well) that in addition
      > the sects you mention are attacked the treatment of John the
      > is not very sympathetic either.

      Heh. Neither is the treatment of his mother, Elizabeth. The author
      writes, "John was begotten by means of a womb worn with age."


      > Less obvious, but possibly still significant....
      > "It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified -
      > visible by the visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some
      > things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there
      > is fire in chrism."
      > (side note.... considering the subject matter and the mention of
      > of the rituals mentioned in other valentinian texts, along with
      > scribal errors elsewhere in Philip, one could reasonably wonder if
      > the second use of the word "water" in this passage may not have
      > originally been "baptism")

      That's possible. Sure. Yet,... talking about "things hidden
      through those visible" preceding "water in water" compels me to draw
      an immediate association of hidden water through visible water. I
      don't know if that is any less meaningful than spelling it out.

      Since "chrism" is mentioned, it even might be expected to think of
      the water in terms of baptism. Chrism and water are mentioned as
      *both* being necessary for baptism elsewhere in GPh:

      "We are reborn by the holy spirit. And we are born by the anointed
      (Christ) through two things. We are anointed by the spirit. When we
      were born we were joined. No one can see himself in the water or in
      a mirror without light. Nor, again, can you see by the light without
      water or a mirror. For this reason it is necessary to baptize with
      two things – light and water. And light mean chrism."

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