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12662Re: Fwd: [christiandruids] The People of the Scrolls

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  • imdarkchylde
    Aug 3, 2006
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
      > Darkchylde
      > >>>Hmmm. I give up. Should I ask her?<<<
      > Sure, if you wish. I think, though, that we can point out simple
      > obvious problems with the proposition, such as the fact that the
      > Essenes don't predate the Greek Mysteries.
      > >>>Well, I'm quite sure that is as true today as it was then. But I
      > don't believe Yeshua was a rabbi, personally, although he was
      > refered to as one I don't think he felt as if he was one-at least
      > didn't refer to himself in that manner. If he had been, I doubt if
      > the established religious orders would have considered him as much
      > of a threat.<<<
      > Agreed, the term "rabbi" was simply a common term that need not
      > implied an official office or position in a particular sect.
      > >>>Such trails seem to be blazed frequently in this forum. I am of
      > personal belief that all religions are different paths to the same
      > light (even mine), but some paths do go round and round more than
      > others; however, I understand your need to set yourself apart. I do
      > find it facinating that you are so sure of what the ancients
      > thought. Do you channel, by any chance?<<<
      > Channel? No *lol*... I simply read. Rather anticlimactic, I know.
      > Perhaps I should try to cultivate a greater taste for drama.
      > it is pretty amazing that without even canneling I have been able
      > determine what William Blake felt about the Christian Church, what
      > the anabaptists believed about baptism, Dante's political
      > affiliation, and many other bits of trivia.... including what the
      > Gnostics generally believed about some things.
      > In any event, it is simple deduction on my part that when they
      > about religions they believe to be false (such as those who follow
      > the Demiurge) it implies they believe religions can be false.
      > Perhaps, though, you feel I am far to speculative in making such a
      > leap. If you feel you can make a better case for another view
      > presented in Gnostic texts, then it is what we are here to explore
      > and I encourage you to do so.
      > There is a hint in Apoc of John (for instance) that this
      > author (or redactionist) felt all were eventually saved (which
      > exactly the same as saying all paths lead to the same place, but
      > could be interprated in a similar vein). Even then it states that
      > some are taken by a false messege, a "counterfeit spirit". Most
      > Gnostic texts are pretty clear in their message that not everyone
      > finds Gnosis, and that there are indeed false paths and errors.
      > even go so far as to state that they are part of an exclusive and
      > seperate "race" of beings. I am simply taking them at their word
      > that one and assuming they mean what they said.
      > This is not to argue or imply that you should agree with those
      > Gnostics.
      > PMCV

      Blessings and Shalom!!
      For starters, I am more in Ptolemy's camp about the demiurge, and I
      do not have the hostility towards the worship of him- I feel that
      people have reasons as to why one religion will appeal to them and
      one will not, and mainstream religions that are jugmental and
      intolerant of others are usually filled with suspicious and paranoid
      contol freaks (which is something I know personally far to well).
      And yes, there are many false paths, so to speak- yet we are all in
      different states of development, and I feel that like the prodigial
      son some of us must walk that path before we find that it was the
      wrong one.
      But I also believe as AOJ seemed to show that we must learn what
      not to do before we learn what to do, especially hard-headed types
      like me that tend to not listen. That belief is what I think lead
      to the misinformation on the Barbelonites, who believed that one
      must experience everything before they can move on, so to speak.
      Like getting caught smoking cigarettes and being made to smoke the
      whole pack to cure yourself of it. So perhaps we take a 'false' path
      in this life, but perhaps we will come closer to true gnosis in the
      next one. And I am of the beleif (mind you I don't lean as much
      toward the Sethian form of gnostism-no bristling, I don't think its
      incorrect or whatever, I just believe in the Annointed and his
      Bride) that gnosis brings about the development of the Christ
      consciousness, which gives us a direct path to the entirety. I
      always disliked the idea in mainstream religions that if you didn't
      follow their path you would burn in hell. According to the Cabala-
      and some gnostic texts, too- we are in 'hell' now. So I feel the
      gnostics where not in the state of denial that many other more
      suppressive 'faiths' tend to be mired in. As it says in Gospel of
      Thomas, Yeshua said "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
      finds. When he finds he will become troubled. When he becomes
      troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the all." So
      in order to acheive gnosis we must break free of the comfort zone
      offered by mainstream beliefs, or by having no belief at all. We
      must become discouraged when we discover that our preconceived ideas
      are incomplete and if we can embrace that reality and leave the
      preconceptions behind, the more we learn the real story and truth
      the more amazed we are. If we can reach that point, we can open
      ourselves to gnosis. And no, not everyone is ready for that.
      Comfort zones and denial hold us back in so many ways, and for those
      who are not ready, which is to say that it will come when they are,
      conventional religion at least gives them a framework to start
      with. My parents, who are conservative, right-wing, evangelical,
      mainstream Christains, accuse me frequently of 'warping' scripture
      to fit my beliefs. And yet in reality, they are the ones who do
      what they are so quick to accuse me of. Much like when I accused
      you of being defensive, when it was really myself that was being
      defensive. I 'came around' and saw my error, and given a few
      eternities, they may reach that point as well. So I don't wish to
      impose my beliefs on anyone. To do so would only hurt the intention
      of showing them the light, rather than help them.
      Perhaps you catch my meaning?
      That is what was meant by going round and round, yet I feel we all
      come from the light, are different manifestations of Ain Sof, the
      unmanifest, and that eventually everyhting will dissolve back into
      its root. Even the original constriction, the tzimtzum, if you will,
      was brought about by the entirety and will dissove back into the
      Did I just hear someone snoring?LOL

      Love and peas
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