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11295Re: Ghosts

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  • Gerry
    Aug 2, 2005
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > [...]
      > The seperation from the spirit, the hylic notion of the world from
      > only a subjective and perceptual basis, is something that is the
      > core idea that Gnosticism is meant to fight against. Waking up from
      > the mere subjectivity into a larger objective perspective is a
      > constant theme. Yes, it is true that there is also the admonition
      > to look inward, but that look inside is meant to be a search for
      > the connection to something beyond the self.

      You used two words there that I meant to include in my last post, but
      from a different slant. Thanks for reminding me!

      I was perplexed from the beginning when Felix brought up his musings
      about Protestantism. As I tried to point out with the film example,
      both Catholicism and Protestantism are still pistic religions, so,
      regardless of the differences we note between them, what kind of
      pertinent "connection" are we drawing with regards to Gnosticism?
      Even allowing for the trends that Bloom observes in Southern
      religious movements, we are still talking about beliefs that involve
      faith and a personal god, so I still don't see how it was relevant to
      this group's interests. In addition, concerning the issue of
      Docetism, I mentioned how certain self-proclaimed Gnostics embrace
      this viewpoint while still treating such a savior as an
      anthropomorphized, limited, personal god. Again (to be more blunt
      this time, in hopes of avoiding anyone thinking that I've implied
      something other than what I intended!), I should simply say, "WTF."
      At such a group's very best, it's probably just another case of
      Gnosis Envy. I think you had the same individuals in mind when you
      reiterated the point with your reference to Marcionites.

      Going back to Bloom's book, I was struck by the comments of one
      critic in particular. I believe he was a cleric, and he noted that
      his biggest concern was that the "objective" God (envisioned by the
      Church) was being ignored among the highly "subjective" movements
      associated with the phenomenon that Bloom was describing. As he
      critiqued the inevitable drawback of such personalized religion
      (paraphrasing), "We are all Popes . . . but only unto ourselves." I
      thought the imagery there was quite appropriate: a great deal of
      people authoritatively pontificating and proselytizing, but with no
      one having any true believers of their message save themselves.

      Well, whether talking about Catholics, or Protestants, or some kind
      of newfangled Protestants, or even some sort of wannabe pneumatics
      who have hijacked the Gnostic myths and perverted them to suit their
      own fundamentalist faith, I think I would have difficulty with anyone
      who questioned whether I saw a "connection" between those groups and
      Gnosticism. It would be as if I had been asked, "Do you prefer an
      objective or subjective Demiurge? . . . How about a literalist or
      solipsist approach to the Divine"

      Geez, if those were my only choices, I suppose I would have to pass

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