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11128Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

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  • Nick Lawrance
    Jun 9, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      From Gich
      No Nick I was asking for definitions of the terms YOU introduced. I have defined all the terms I have ever used and I wanted you to do the same. Without clear definitions it's not possible to have a meaningful discussion about anything.
      ..........................................
      I am sorry you think that I have been attacking you but I get the feeling that you are just playing games with me. You say you want definitions when you know and I know that you understand exactly what Thomas means at least on the surface level as you have already indicated in your understanding of Gnosticism. If you were a complete beginner I could understand but your not. I am sorry but I just can not buy the idea that you don't understand the terms that I am talking about.
       
      Nick
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      No Nick I was asking for definitions of the terms YOU introduced. I have defined all the terms I have ever used and I wanted you to do the same. Without clear definitions it's not possible to have a meaningful discussion about anything.
      Gich
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:34 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Gich
       
      You suggested discussing whether salvation is by 'Grace' or through one's 'efforts' and you later brought the Gospel of Thomas into the discussion and now say we cannot discuss it?!? This reminds me of Wittgenstein's famous observation: 'a nothing would do as well as a something about which nothing can be said'!

       

      ...........................................

      The way you replied to me you were not asking for a discusion, you were asking for 'answers' and I seriously do not believe you can not understand the surface meaning of the sayings; if you can't understand the surface meanings whats the point in going into the deeper meaning?

       

      Nick

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:33 AM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hey Nick!

      You offered this as a discussion topic. The conversation so far has gone as follows:

      Nick: I think an interesting idea would be is salvation by 'Grace' or through one's 'efforts.'

      Gich: I'd like you to define what you mean by "grace".

      Nick: Using the Gospel of Thomas sayings: Grace =  (62) Jesus said: I speak my mysteries to those [who are worthy of my] mysteries. Effort = (58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the person who has labored and found life."

      Gich: What does this mean? speak my mysteries? those who are worthy? ... blessed? found life?

      Nick: I am sure you obviously grasp the surface meanings but he whole purpose of Thomas in my opinion is that you investigate the deeper meaning of these sayings for yourself, there meant to be puzzled over not handed to one on a plate.

      Gich - this post: You suggested discussing whether salvation is by 'Grace' or through one's 'efforts' and you later brought the Gospel of Thomas into the discussion and now say we cannot discuss it?!? This reminds me of Wittgenstein's famous observation: 'a nothing would do as well as a something about which nothing can be said'!

      Gich

       

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 4:26 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hey Nick!

      >>> I speak my mysteries to those [who are worthy of my] mysteries <<<

      What does this mean? speak my mysteries? those who are worthy?

      >>> Blessed is the person who has labored and found life <<<

      What does this mean? blessed? found life?

      Gich

      .......................................................

       

      I am sure you obviously grasp the surface meanings but he whole purpose of Thomas in my opinion is that you investigate the deeper meaning of these sayings for yourself, there meant to be puzzled over not handed to one on a plate.

       

      Nick

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 8:40 AM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hey Nick!

      >>> I speak my mysteries to those [who are worthy of my] mysteries <<<

      What does this mean? speak my mysteries? those who are worthy?

      >>> Blessed is the person who has labored and found life <<<

      What does this mean? blessed? found life?

      Gich

       

       

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:49 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      From Gich

       

      >>Hey Nick! I'd like you to define what you mean by "grace".

      ................................................................................................

      Using the Gospel of Thomas sayings:

       

      Grace =  (62) Jesus said: I speak my mysteries to those [who are worthy of my] mysteries.

       

      >> Given that salvation goes to the "spiritual" it seems to me that nothing can be more spiritual than babies and so they, certainly, would be saved. Hence salvation cannot be through one's 'efforts.'

       

      Now that's where the debate comes in for:

      Effort = (58) Jesus said, "Blessed is the person who has labored and found life."

       

      Nick

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 7:49 AM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hey Nick!

      >>>I think an interesting idea would be is salvation by 'Grace' or through one's 'efforts.'<<<

      I'd like you to define what you mean by "grace".

      Given that salvation goes to the "spiritual" it seems to me that nothing can be more spiritual than babies and so they, certainly, would be saved. Hence salvation cannot be through one's 'efforts.'

      Gich

       

      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:05 PM
      Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hello, all.

      Just thought I'd pop in with a request for discussion topics of
      interest to YOU, in case anyone would like a Weekly Study Session #2
      starting tomorrow, Friday.

      Feel free to post suggestions here or email the moderators.

      Thank you.


      Cari

      .....................................
       
      I think an interesting idea would be is salvation by 'Grace' or through one's 'efforts.'
       
      Nick
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 3:43 PM
      Subject: [Gnosticism2] Topics

      Hello, all.

      Just thought I'd pop in with a request for discussion topics of
      interest to YOU, in case anyone would like a Weekly Study Session #2
      starting tomorrow, Friday.

      Feel free to post suggestions here or email the moderators.

      Thank you.


      Cari



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