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word order

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  • lenadi_moucina
    I had some contact with hindi some time ago and am thinking of how glosa could use hindi word order -verb final, also some slight contact with welsh verb
    Message 1 of 3 , Jul 2, 2007
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      "I had some contact with hindi some time ago and am thinking of how
      glosa could use hindi word order -verb final, also some slight contact
      with welsh verb first"

      I think that it could be easy to make Glosa a few independant of the
      word order. It need only two particules :
      - one to mark the object of a verb
      - one to mark the present mode of a verb.

      Try "i" for the object mark and "to" [:-)] for the mark of the present
      mode.
      You can now write this Glosa clause "an frakti u botilia" by different
      ways.
      (an) (TO frakti) ("I" u botilia)
      (TO frakti) (an) (I u botilia)
      (an)(I botilia) (TO frakti)
      {note that AN is the subject, if it is a reflexive pronoun you have to
      write "I an" : [(botilia) (to frakti) (I AN)] }
      (I u botilia) (TO frakti) (an)
      And so on :
      (I u botilia) (PA frakti) (an)
      (I u botilia) (FU frakti) (an)
      (I u botilia) (NU FU frakti) (an)
      (I u botilia) (NU DU PA frakti) (an)
      (I u botilia) (DU TO frakti) (an)

      I think it may not allways necessary to mark the object when the order
      SVO is the respected rule. The language IDO use a seeming system for
      the "accusative", special end of word or particule before give the
      same logical meaning.

      Saluta
      Daniel
    • Eike Preuss
      Hi all, I still don t like the idea of a flexible word order, it s one of the things that I really don t like in Esperanto. Since this was already discussed on
      Message 2 of 3 , Jul 2, 2007
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        Hi all,
        I still don't like the idea of a flexible word order, it's one of the
        things that I really don't like in Esperanto.
        Since this was already discussed on this list, I'll refer to my two
        cents given in
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/glosalist/message/691
        and
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/glosalist/message/813

        In these posts I explain why I would like both for glosa:
        a) a (present mode / neutral) verb marker, because it makes the
        sentence structure more obvious
        b) a clearer and even stricter defined word order, where I don't
        really care whether it is SVO, VSO, SOV or whatever of the 6
        combinations, as long as it will be only one of them

        :))

        Eike

        On Jul 2, 2007, at 11:12 AM, lenadi_moucina wrote:

        > "I had some contact with hindi some time ago and am thinking of how
        > glosa could use hindi word order -verb final, also some slight contact
        > with welsh verb first"
        >
        > I think that it could be easy to make Glosa a few independant of the
        > word order. It need only two particules :
        > - one to mark the object of a verb
        > - one to mark the present mode of a verb.
        >
        > Try "i" for the object mark and "to" [:-)] for the mark of the present
        > mode.
        > You can now write this Glosa clause "an frakti u botilia" by different
        > ways.
        > (an) (TO frakti) ("I" u botilia)
        > (TO frakti) (an) (I u botilia)
        > (an)(I botilia) (TO frakti)
        > {note that AN is the subject, if it is a reflexive pronoun you have to
        > write "I an" : [(botilia) (to frakti) (I AN)] }
        > (I u botilia) (TO frakti) (an)
        > And so on :
        > (I u botilia) (PA frakti) (an)
        > (I u botilia) (FU frakti) (an)
        > (I u botilia) (NU FU frakti) (an)
        > (I u botilia) (NU DU PA frakti) (an)
        > (I u botilia) (DU TO frakti) (an)
        >
        > I think it may not allways necessary to mark the object when the order
        > SVO is the respected rule. The language IDO use a seeming system for
        > the "accusative", special end of word or particule before give the
        > same logical meaning.
        >
        > Saluta
        > Daniel
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Jay Sistar
        Present tence verb markers are not a bad thing to include because they add clarity to what you re saying. However, flexable word order is not a very good idea.
        Message 3 of 3 , Jul 2, 2007
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          Present tence verb markers are not a bad thing to include because they add clarity to what you're saying. However, flexable word order is not a very good idea. People learning the language from other word order languages would likely adopt their own personal word order, which would be difficult for people comming from other word ordered languages. The accual order chosen doesn't matter, but the fact that it is chosen, and therefore univerally the same word order is used is very important for quick clarity of communication.

          Artifical langauges are much easier to understand -because- of their constraints that they have placed upon their language. Lifting constraits is not always a good idea.

          Esperanto accaully focused on the wrong constraint for best clarity: Noun declination makes the language have to change spelling of a word giving rise to the concept of a "root" word and a "declined" word.

          Glosa does not make this destinction, but it does so simply at the cost of having to use word order to find whether the noun is the subject object or indirect object of the sentence. Glosa's markers also obey these rules. That is why Glosa is an easier language to pick up than Esperanto.

          -Jay


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Eike Preuss <mail@...>
          To: glosalist@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, July 2, 2007 9:03:55 AM
          Subject: Re: [glosalist] word order

          Hi all,
          I still don't like the idea of a flexible word order, it's one of the
          things that I really don't like in Esperanto.
          Since this was already discussed on this list, I'll refer to my two
          cents given in
          http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ glosalist/ message/691
          and
          http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ glosalist/ message/813

          In these posts I explain why I would like both for glosa:
          a) a (present mode / neutral) verb marker, because it makes the
          sentence structure more obvious
          b) a clearer and even stricter defined word order, where I don't
          really care whether it is SVO, VSO, SOV or whatever of the 6
          combinations, as long as it will be only one of them

          :))

          Eike

          On Jul 2, 2007, at 11:12 AM, lenadi_moucina wrote:

          > "I had some contact with hindi some time ago and am thinking of how
          > glosa could use hindi word order -verb final, also some slight contact
          > with welsh verb first"
          >
          > I think that it could be easy to make Glosa a few independant of the
          > word order. It need only two particules :
          > - one to mark the object of a verb
          > - one to mark the present mode of a verb.
          >
          > Try "i" for the object mark and "to" [:-)] for the mark of the present
          > mode.
          > You can now write this Glosa clause "an frakti u botilia" by different
          > ways.
          > (an) (TO frakti) ("I" u botilia)
          > (TO frakti) (an) (I u botilia)
          > (an)(I botilia) (TO frakti)
          > {note that AN is the subject, if it is a reflexive pronoun you have to
          > write "I an" : [(botilia) (to frakti) (I AN)] }
          > (I u botilia) (TO frakti) (an)
          > And so on :
          > (I u botilia) (PA frakti) (an)
          > (I u botilia) (FU frakti) (an)
          > (I u botilia) (NU FU frakti) (an)
          > (I u botilia) (NU DU PA frakti) (an)
          > (I u botilia) (DU TO frakti) (an)
          >
          > I think it may not allways necessary to mark the object when the order
          > SVO is the respected rule. The language IDO use a seeming system for
          > the "accusative" , special end of word or particule before give the
          > same logical meaning.
          >
          > Saluta
          > Daniel
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >




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