Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Errors in 18 Steps

Expand Messages
  • himalayancassi
    I have read the 18 Steps with great pleasure. It s an excellent web site. But there is something that concerned me throughout. I found it is discouraging to
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 9, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      I have read the "18 Steps" with great pleasure. It's an excellent
      web site. But there is something that concerned me throughout. I
      found it is discouraging to read that there are so many errors in
      the original book; perhaps there are a lot more. Not to mention it
      is insulting to the original authors for telling the whole world
      what horrible work they've done.
    • Hal Jordon
      I agree that while the language itself is a great achievement and very well thought out, the basic manual has some failings. I would like to create a better
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 9, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        I agree that while the language itself is a great
        achievement and very well thought out, the basic manual has
        some failings. I would like to create a better manual if
        possible and have started to work on that. I would like
        also to (re)-create the audio file for samples of the
        language. I would need some help with that as I am not 100%
        sure of my own pronunciation.

        There is a multimedia program for learning Esperanto the
        would be a very useful tool to get training material out
        for Glosa. It is called Kurso de esperanto. and I think you
        can get the framework of it and change it to Glosa.


        The only problem I have and it is minor, if the way the
        numbers below 100 are called without the ten or deka. I
        mean 37 is tri seti and not trideka seti. For consistency
        I think it should be the latter.


        Thanks,


        Tom



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search
        that gives answers, not web links.
        http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC
      • twoorangecats
        ... If errors are found are they revised in the books/web site? Who is/are responsible for doing them?
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 14, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "himalayancassi"
          <maryannehanna@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have read the "18 Steps" with great pleasure. It's an excellent
          > web site. But there is something that concerned me throughout. I
          > found it is discouraging to read that there are so many errors in
          > the original book; perhaps there are a lot more. Not to mention it
          > is insulting to the original authors for telling the whole world
          > what horrible work they've done.
          >

          If errors are found are they revised in the books/web site? Who
          is/are responsible for doing them?
        • Doro Winkelhofer
          Ave Tom, why is tri seti (37) a problem for you. It derives from the logic of the language which I like very much - although I just began to learn. Your idea
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 14, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Ave Tom,

            why is tri seti (37) a problem for you. It derives from the logic of the language which I like very much - although I just began to learn.

            Your idea to create a new manual like the one which is available for Esperanto is a brilliant idea.

            I think the 18 steps is a nice way to learn the language, but even as a beginner I noticed some minor errors in the first steps. I don't think that is blasphemous to name this errors. Everyone who is interested in Glosa should have an interest to make the teaching material better. And 18steps is much better than everything available on the web to learn such big IAL like Interlingua and Occidental.

            Plu saluta
            Doro

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • andoromeda83
            Ave plu ami de Glosa, on the web edition of the book most errors are corrected. I don t its blashphemous to point out that 18 steps have small errors. It is
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 15, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Ave plu ami de Glosa,

              on the web edition of the book most errors are corrected. I don't its
              blashphemous to point out that "18 steps" have small errors. It is the
              interest of all learners. The "18 steps" website for example is much
              better for learning than all sites known to me for learning such "big"
              IAL like Interlingua and Interlingue.

              I like Tom's idea to create some new multimedia edition for learning
              Glosa like the one for Esperanto. That would really a great thing for
              the promotion of Glosa.

              Plu saluta
              Doro

              --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "twoorangecats" <maryannehanna@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "himalayancassi"
              > <maryannehanna@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I have read the "18 Steps" with great pleasure. It's an excellent
              > > web site. But there is something that concerned me throughout. I
              > > found it is discouraging to read that there are so many errors in
              > > the original book; perhaps there are a lot more. Not to mention it
              > > is insulting to the original authors for telling the whole world
              > > what horrible work they've done.
              > >
              >
              > If errors are found are they revised in the books/web site? Who
              > is/are responsible for doing them?
              >
            • Hal Jordon
              I would like the book to be more readily available. It is a good book, which I like very much. Any learning material would be very good to see. I would like to
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 16, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I would like the book to be more readily available. It is a
                good book, which I like very much. Any learning material
                would be very good to see. I would like to see more
                interest and activity than has been evident lately. I know
                my ability in Glosa is very limited but I do very much want
                to get the language out there.

                I have edited some files to make Glosa vocabulary available
                on a Palm program called Supermemo. It helps with
                memorization.

                The lack of the deka or ten is inconsistent with the rest
                of the numbers and with most other languages. Do you say
                two two or twenty two? I deal with numbers a great deal and
                it helps with clarity, I think, at least.

                Saluta,
                Tom



                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.
                http://new.toolbar.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/index.php
              • himalayanpussycat
                Who is in charge of Glosa? Is it the Glosa Education Organization? Is it nobody? Then, it will be the law of the jungle; whoever is the mightiest (loudest)
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 19, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Who is in charge of Glosa? Is it the Glosa Education Organization?
                  Is it nobody? Then, it will be the law of the jungle; whoever is the
                  mightiest (loudest) would rule. Shouldn't there be a committee set
                  up to look after the language?
                • sydpidd@aol.com
                  it is not really clear who is in charge of glosa as many of its founders are no longer with us, others have other problems etc. I don t know if this would
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 20, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    it is not really clear who is in charge of glosa as many of its founders are
                    no longer with us, others have other problems etc.

                    I don't know if this would help - here is a proposition :-
                    the pronunciation of g is supposed to be phonetic but one or two puzzling
                    exceptions have crept in from english. the problem has been solved for us by the
                    international phonetics association/alphabet.
                    I propose that all the letters in g are poronounced as in ipa - "x" now
                    becomes like the german/scots etc "ch", q becomes a variety of "k" and we
                    specifically write the following "w" sound as "u" - "qu" will sound reasonably like
                    the english version.

                    so that is a proposition made by syd pidd, obviously he will vote for it, it
                    has a vote of +1
                    any more votes for or against?

                    sid








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • nick_hempshall
                    Yes. I agree with Doro. The system is entirely consistent in Glosa 7 is seti 15 is mo-pen 40 is tet-ze 92 is nona-bi 132 is mo-tri-bi 480
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 21, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes. I agree with Doro. The system is entirely consistent in Glosa

                      7 is seti

                      15 is mo-pen

                      40 is tet-ze

                      92 is nona-bi

                      132 is mo-tri-bi

                      480 is tet-ok-ze


                      Nick
                    • Eike Preuss
                      ... Well, it might be consistent in Glosa, but it diverges from all natural languages I know (which are not many, but anyway). That s not an argument, though.
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 22, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On Jun 22, 2007, at 2:22 AM, nick_hempshall wrote:

                        >
                        > Yes. I agree with Doro. The system is entirely consistent in Glosa
                        >
                        > 7 is seti
                        >
                        > 15 is mo-pen
                        >
                        > 40 is tet-ze
                        > [...]

                        Well, it might be consistent in Glosa, but it diverges from all
                        natural languages I know (which are not many, but anyway).

                        That's not an argument, though. The question is, why could it make
                        sense to say 'two hundred and twenty-five' instead of 'two two five'?

                        If you say 'two two five' you have to hear ALL of the numbers before
                        you know something about the MAGNITUDE of the number, i.e. whether it
                        is something in the thousands, hundreds, etc. If you deal with
                        numbers a lot, e.g. if you are a mathematician (like I am :) ), or
                        even if you are just interested in buying something, or if you speak
                        about the dept of a country in the news, the magnitude is the most
                        important thing - it simply makes a lot of a difference.
                        'two two five': the moment I miss one of the words, I get a
                        completely wrong impression about the magnitude of the number and
                        have no hint that this has happened.
                        'two hundred and twenty-five': as long as I understand the 'hundred',
                        I get the right magnitude. If I miss the 'hundred', I hear 'two and
                        twenty-five' and might recognize that I missed something.

                        To say 'two hundred and twenty-five' is simply MUCH LESS ERROR-PRONE,
                        than saying 'two two five'.
                        In common speech I still can and will shorten things anyway when I
                        think that the magnitude should be clear from the context.

                        I find this a serious drawback in the way numbers are handled in Glosa.

                        Saluta, Eike
                      • sydpidd@aol.com
                        dead simple! doro nick sid ....... leave system as is +3 votes or whatever sid [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 22, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          dead simple!
                          doro nick sid ....... leave system as is +3 votes or whatever

                          sid






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • himalayanpussycat
                          OK, I m slow but I think I m beginning to get the idea. I believe the founders of the language did not wish to clearly define all the details. They wanted YOU
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 25, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            OK, I'm slow but I think I'm beginning to get the idea. I believe
                            the founders of the language did not wish to clearly define all the
                            details. They wanted YOU as users of the language to decide. They
                            published many different variations (formats) of the language so
                            that you (users) will choose the ones you like and use them, and
                            ignore the ones you don't like and let them fall into disuse. THAT
                            will decide the course of the language, not some authority who signs
                            the final decision. (That seems to be the way things are going
                            whether the founders actually intended or not.)

                            This is a great idea. But, I have a little concern with this
                            "democratic" approach. The Glosa community is quite small. And I get
                            the sense that the most are anglophone. That means as the time goes
                            by Glosa will be more and more English like, quashing wishes of the
                            minorities (it is pro English biased to begin with). It would
                            eventually become an English Auxiliary Language instead of
                            International Auxiliary Language.

                            I may occasionally be putting my two bits out there as a minority,
                            which some of you may not like. I apologize, if so. As it is now, it
                            seems to me the person who has the greatest power is the person who
                            maintains the website(s). (I have seen some "errors" in the
                            website ;-)
                          • Marcel Springer
                            ... Hi himalayancassi, thank you for visiting glosa.org, for reading 18 Steps, for your comments and for joining us. Welcome! What you see is a compromise: On
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 26, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              himalayancassi grafo 2007-06-09, (sorry, two weeks ago):
                              > I have read the "18 Steps" with great pleasure. It's an excellent
                              > web site. But there is something that concerned me throughout. I
                              > found it is discouraging to read that there are so many errors in
                              > the original book; perhaps there are a lot more.

                              Hi himalayancassi, thank you for visiting glosa.org, for reading 18
                              Steps, for your comments and for joining us. Welcome!


                              What you see is a compromise:

                              On the one hand, "18 Steps" is a work by two authors/artists.
                              Every artwork must be protected from later changes by others. I
                              respect Ron Clark, Wendy Ashby and their work a lot.

                              On the other hand, this document is the main source for learning the
                              language. So the learner must get hints, where the original material
                              may be discussed.

                              This is done by means of italic annotations in brackets, leaving the
                              original text untouched.


                              > Not to mention it is insulting to the original authors for telling
                              > the whole world what horrible work they've done.

                              Every annotation is objective and informative, none insulting, I
                              hope. If I (or Nick, or others here) would have had the intention to
                              insult somebody, we could have done it without so much effort.

                              The Glosa books may be "horrible", but the language Glosa is
                              excellent. That is better than the other way round.

                              Saluta - Marcel
                            • Marcel Springer
                              ... The authors discussed a lot with the users via their newspaper Plu Glosa Nota . So during development of the language, some new ideas came in. Probably
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 26, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                himalayanpussycat grafo 2007-06-25:
                                > I believe the founders of the language did not wish to clearly
                                > define all the details. They wanted YOU as users of the language
                                > to decide. They published many different variations (formats) of
                                > the language so that you (users) will choose the ones you like and
                                > use them, and ignore the ones you don't like and let them fall into
                                > disuse.

                                The authors discussed a lot with the users via their newspaper "Plu
                                Glosa Nota". So during development of the language, some new ideas
                                came in. Probably this lead to some contradictions in the material.

                                But I do not understand what you mean with "different variations"?
                                The language is ready!

                                Please try to use the language and write some texts. When you come
                                into problems, read the GEO-books, ask here the glosalist-pe or ask
                                Wendy Ashby. Normally it can be decided, what is good Glosa and what
                                is wrong.


                                > ... And I get the sense that the most are anglophone. That means as
                                > the time goes by Glosa will be more and more English like, quashing
                                > wishes of the minorities ... I may occasionally be putting my two
                                > bits out there as a minority, which some of you may not like. I
                                > apologize, if so.

                                A big part of the internet is English, and that is where we are, like
                                it or not. I am a German. Now I am a bit out of practice with
                                English, so my English level went down. Nevertheless I have the
                                feeling, that I am welcome here. And you are welcome, too, no matter,
                                where you are from. By the way, where are you from?


                                > As it is now, it seems to me the person who has the greatest power
                                > is the person who maintains the website(s). (I have seen some
                                > "errors" in the website ;-)

                                Power is not the goal of glosa.org. Sad, when somebody gets this
                                impression. It is just a free information service about one of the
                                most interesting IALs. I try to keep Wendy Ashby informed about what
                                is going on there and I want to consider her wishes.

                                Please tell me errors. I will try to fix them, but please be
                                patient.

                                Everybody can set up his own Glosa website. I am collecting the
                                addresses in the link section of glosa.org. The last entry of
                                2007-05-28 is the site of Aender (glosalist-pe "vekigulacerbon")
                                with his translations of beautiful poems.

                                Saluta - Marcel
                              • himalayanpussycat
                                Thank you very much for your response to my messages. I am grateful, even honored. You are obviously expert and you have great insight into the language. I did
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 29, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Thank you very much for your response to my messages. I am grateful,
                                  even honored. You are obviously expert and you have great insight
                                  into the language. I did not mean to offend you; if you did, I am
                                  sorry; that's was not my intent.

                                  I am of origin of (ashamed to say) a colored race (not Himalayan),
                                  who are often publicized as evil. I have had a lot of bad
                                  experiences; still occasionally do. Forgive me that's all I would
                                  like to say about me at this time.

                                  They say that the best grammar is no grammar. If you follow this
                                  principle you can never have errors. If there are errors it's the
                                  person's perspective; inconsistent or not. I am not saying that's
                                  what Glosa is. I believe that the simplicity is one of the, if not
                                  the, goal of Glosa; and I think you have done an excellent job.

                                  PS: I'm sorry but I still feel that you might want to collect all
                                  the negative comments and put them in an appendix, unless you want
                                  to turn away newcomers.
                                • sydpidd@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 30/06/2007 05:48:21 GMT Standard Time, maryannehanna@hotmail.com writes: I am of origin of (ashamed to say) a colored race (not Himalayan),
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jun 30, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    In a message dated 30/06/2007 05:48:21 GMT Standard Time,
                                    maryannehanna@... writes:

                                    I am of origin of (ashamed to say) a colored race (not Himalayan),
                                    what is there to be ashamed of? i am english and white - it was white people
                                    that made their fortunes turning black/coloured people into slaves - who
                                    should be more ashamed of their evil

                                    let us forget it .......
                                    what is there to be proud of? we are trying to make it easier/possible for
                                    people of all colours/races/ to talk to each other to promote peace - an
                                    example is my being able to write to marcel in glosa. 50 years ago, his nation
                                    perhaps relations were sent across the sea to bomb my city but now he and i are
                                    working together in our own way to spread friendship

                                    you be proud of showing an interest if peacemaking glosa - you could be
                                    doubly proud if you wrote in glosa...........
                                    i am interested in the construction of glosa - it would be very helpful if
                                    you would tell us what language you speak and how it compares with g.
                                    I had some contact with hindi some time ago and am thiking of how glosa
                                    could use hindi word order -verb final, also some slight contact with welsh
                                    verb first

                                    should now put this into glosa but i am a bit slow with translation

                                    syd











                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.