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Re: English-Glosa web page translator

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  • ernobe
    ... A newer version has been uploaded, that fixes this and makes several improvements. Several words previously not recognized now are. For example,
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 1, 2006
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      --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "ernobe" <ernobe@...> wrote:
      >
      > I've discovered a small error in the program, and uploaded the
      > corrected version. In assigning the plural to words, it would leave
      > out a hyphen, which would indicate that the 'plu' part was part of the
      > conjectured word. For example, 'endings' would return '?plu akro'
      > instead of '?plu-akro'. If you have the version that does this,
      > perhaps you might want to download the corrected version.
      >

      A newer version has been uploaded, that fixes this and makes several
      improvements. Several words previously not recognized now are. For
      example, implementors or implementers now returns
      '?plu-instrumenta-pe', whereas the previous version would leave out
      the 'pe', physician or mathematician now produce correct results,
      whereas previously they'd go unrecognized. Generally, more
      correspondences are attempted, which perhaps gives place to more
      errors, but errors are better than failures. Previously, I had
      thought of not translating 'the' and 'a' since these words are often
      left out in Glosa. This version translates them and 'an' as 'u'.
      Some definitions in the dictionary consist of several Glosa words, as
      for example 'gene ma boni' for 'reform' and 'pa grafo' for 'wrote'.
      Only the first word of these will appear in the results. Finally, the
      program now cleans up after itself and removes the other file that is
      produced during processing.
    • ernobe
      Just to inform you all that an even newer version of the program has been uploaded ( you may have to press the refresh button ). The noticeable difference in
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 5, 2006
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        Just to inform you all that an even newer version of the program has
        been uploaded ( you may have to press the refresh button ). The
        noticeable difference in this one is that it contains its own
        specialized dictionary file, which for the sake of plain rationality
        has only one definition per word, as chosen by me. In fact, you can
        manually edit this file; as long as you stick to the format, which
        can't be any simpler, it will translate any word into any other word
        you want.
      • seti_serian
        ... Ok thanks but where can I download this new file from? Seti
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 6, 2006
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          --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "ernobe" <ernobe@...> wrote:
          Ok thanks but where can I download this new file from?
          Seti
        • ernobe
          ... It s available at http://ar.geocities.com/ernobe/gish.zip Just a few minutes ago I uploaded a newer version with the following improvements: 1. Improved
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 6, 2006
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            --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "seti_serian" <d_kaml54@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "ernobe" <ernobe@> wrote:
            > Ok thanks but where can I download this new file from?
            > Seti
            >
            It's available at http://ar.geocities.com/ernobe/gish.zip Just a few
            minutes ago I uploaded a newer version with the following improvements:

            1. Improved spacing of non-letter characters.
            2. Now recognizes words like continual, currency, donation, and
            traditionally.
            3. Cleaned up the dictionary. Removed words that are not referenced
            anyway.
            4. Decided on a name, Gish, short for Glosa englISH or Glosified
            englISH as you prefer.
          • ernobe
            ... Uploaded a new version that loads the dictionary file into memory on start-up, which means that it is slower on start-up for the command-line mode, but a
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 7, 2006
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              --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "ernobe" <ernobe@...> wrote:

              > It's available at http://ar.geocities.com/ernobe/gish.zip

              Uploaded a new version that loads the dictionary file into memory on
              start-up, which means that it is slower on start-up for the
              command-line mode, but a couple of orders of magnitude faster in
              translation. In addition the following improvements have been made:

              1. Plurals for physician, mathematician, etc. recognized.
              2. Fancied distinguished from fancies, worried from worries, etc.
              3. Recognizes the 'ize' ending: memorize, memorizes, memorized,
              memorizing, all distinguished.

              I've also uploaded the source code to my website at
              http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe/gishicn.txt but it appears
              that the administrators are out or something: it's not getting
              updated. Maybe tomorrow.
            • Nick N. Mikhailenko
              Thanks. I will give the same for Esperanto. It would be intresting Eo Glosa For all: use a simple English, please (if you hate Eo) Nikolao [Non-text portions
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 10, 2006
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                Thanks. I will give the same for Esperanto.
                It would be intresting Eo<->Glosa
                For all: use a simple English, please
                (if you hate Eo)

                Nikolao

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ernobe
                ... First make it Glosa - Esperanto, so you can read and understand Glosa in Esperanto. This is easier and more practical than Esperanto - Glosa because
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 19, 2006
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                  --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Nick N. Mikhailenko" <nick0000@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks. I will give the same for Esperanto.
                  > It would be intresting Eo<->Glosa
                  > For all: use a simple English, please
                  > (if you hate Eo)
                  >
                  > Nikolao

                  First make it Glosa -> Esperanto, so you can read and understand Glosa
                  in Esperanto. This is easier and more practical than Esperanto ->
                  Glosa because Glosa has only one word for each concept, and relies on
                  the user to give a meaningful context to those concepts so that the
                  precise meaning becomes evident. I am working on Glosa -> English and
                  Glosa -> Spanish programs, and will make the wordlists available so
                  that others can use them to translate Glosa into their own languages.
                • Robin Fairbridge Gaskell
                  Saluta plu Amika, ... I think we should work out what we are aiming at ... what are our long-term objectives, before going off in all directions. If we seek a
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 20, 2006
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                    Saluta plu Amika,

                    At 12:11 PM 11/11/06, Nikolao pa Grafo:

                    >Thanks. I will give the same for Esperanto.
                    >It would be intresting Eo<->Glosa
                    >For all: use a simple English, please
                    >(if you hate Eo)
                    >
                    >Nikolao

                    I think we should work out what we are aiming at ... what are our
                    long-term objectives, before going off in all directions.

                    If we seek a 'Middle Language' [ML] that can go between two natural
                    (or national) languages, then it ought to be "machine handleable, and
                    the process of conversion to the ML from one language, and the
                    translation of the ML to another natural language both ought to be
                    machine handleable. This was the ethic behind the DLT (Distributed
                    Language Translation) project that had a form of "Esperanto" as the
                    ML. (or bridge language) in 1972. But the Esperantists sponsoring
                    the DLT project kept too tight a hand on the form of their precious
                    ML i.e. Esperanto, and demanded that the bridge be readily humanly
                    readable ... as well as machine readable.

                    This was their mistake, and the decision crippled the DLT project.

                    So, if Glosa-pe wish to try their hand at making Glosa a ML, then the
                    priority ought to be in making the form of "Glosa" used, for the
                    purpose of translation, eminently machine readable first, and humanly
                    readable second.

                    - - - -
                    On a ^different tack^, I would advise users of Glosa that its syntax
                    is very close to that of well-formed English BUT ...

                    ... while well-written Glosa will map onto English (meaning that:
                    replacing Glosa words with English-language equivalents will usually
                    be readily understood by a reader of English), the opposite is not
                    usually the case. Properly syntactic Glosa is designed to be a purer
                    form of communication than is vernacular English.

                    So, while I might be out of touch with present developments in Glosa,
                    I am still of the opinion that Glosa's strength is in its Syntax-based Grammar.

                    The explanation is simply that much is assumed in vernacular English,
                    and much elision occurs in its use. This is satisfactory to
                    native-born speakers of English, but causes hell for many learners of
                    English as a Second Language. It is for this reason that I put in a
                    strong plea for the use of syntactically-correct, un-elided Glosa.

                    Saluta Mi Plu Amika,

                    Robin Gaskell
                  • Robin Fairbridge Gaskell
                    ... Interesting! This idea, that writing in Glosa demands using words in meaningful context is roughly the same idea that I have been stressing for years, i.e.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 27, 2006
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                      At 05:09 AM 11/20/06, ernobe pa grafo:

                      >--- In
                      ><mailto:glosalist%40yahoogroups.com>glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Nick
                      >N. Mikhailenko" <nick0000@...>
                      >wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Thanks. I will give the same for Esperanto.
                      > > It would be intresting Eo<->Glosa
                      > > For all: use a simple English, please
                      > > (if you hate Eo)
                      > >
                      > > Nikolao
                      >
                      >First make it Glosa -> Esperanto, so you can read and understand Glosa
                      >in Esperanto. This is easier and more practical than Esperanto ->
                      >Glosa because Glosa has only one word for each concept, and relies on
                      >the user to give a meaningful context to those concepts so that the
                      >precise meaning becomes evident. I am working on Glosa -> English and
                      >Glosa -> Spanish programs, and will make the wordlists available so
                      >that others can use them to translate Glosa into their own languages.

                      Interesting!
                      This idea, that writing in Glosa demands using words in meaningful
                      context is roughly the same idea that I have been stressing for
                      years, i.e. that the correct use of Glosa demands an elegant accuracy.

                      Thus, if information is laid down in Glosa, it is quite easy
                      to translate out of it -- into other national languages and even into
                      other Planned Languages.
                      If the above idea is correct, it would stamp Glosa as the
                      ideal Middle Language and as a suitable candidate for as the bridge
                      language in a computer translation process. What is more, the bridge
                      language, i.e. Glosa, or a close variant of it, would be readable by
                      humans as well as by machines.

                      And on the reference to "Glosa -> Esperanto" I would
                      definitely find the well-written Glosa version of a document a lot
                      easier to understand than the well-written Esperanto version of
                      it. In fact, I had to do a translation, on paper, from Esperanto
                      into English when the now Professor of Linguistics in China, Haitao,
                      insisted on answering my Glosa letters to him in Esperanto.

                      Saluta,

                      Robin Gaskell

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Roy Fullmer
                      ... Much as I share your enthusiasm about the whole thing, I diverge with respect to the viability of a bridge language in a computer translation process ,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Dec 5, 2006
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                        --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, Robin Fairbridge Gaskell
                        > Interesting!
                        > This idea, that writing in Glosa demands using words in meaningful
                        > context is roughly the same idea that I have been stressing for
                        > years, i.e. that the correct use of Glosa demands an elegant accuracy.
                        >
                        > Thus, if information is laid down in Glosa, it is quite easy
                        > to translate out of it -- into other national languages and even into
                        > other Planned Languages.
                        > If the above idea is correct, it would stamp Glosa as the
                        > ideal Middle Language and as a suitable candidate for as the bridge
                        > language in a computer translation process. What is more, the bridge
                        > language, i.e. Glosa, or a close variant of it, would be readable by
                        > humans as well as by machines.
                        >
                        > And on the reference to "Glosa -> Esperanto" I would
                        > definitely find the well-written Glosa version of a document a lot
                        > easier to understand than the well-written Esperanto version of
                        > it. In fact, I had to do a translation, on paper, from Esperanto
                        > into English when the now Professor of Linguistics in China, Haitao,
                        > insisted on answering my Glosa letters to him in Esperanto.
                        >

                        Much as I share your enthusiasm about the whole thing, I diverge with
                        respect to the viability of a "bridge language in a computer
                        translation process", which to me seems very far-fetched.

                        Things need to be written in Glosa first, then machine translated into
                        other languages. Of particular interest for moving in this direction
                        is whether or not machine translated Glosa into Chinese is readable as
                        an original Chinese language composition. If so, it would prove very
                        appealing to the Chinese language speakers, who constitute the largest
                        population on Earth. It seems to me that what you've been stressing
                        for years has been known to them for millenia. I'm studying an
                        ancient Chinese classic which has been translated many times into many
                        different languages, and have discovered that a word for word
                        translation into Glosa brings the meaning out much better than any of
                        them. The development of the proper Glosa-Chinese wordlist requires
                        someone well versed in both English and Chinese. If Professor Haitao
                        doesn't speak a word of English perhaps he will not get the proper
                        nuance of meaning of particular English words. For example, the Glosa
                        word 'bali' would have to be translated into a Chinese language
                        equivalent that could transmit all the nuances of meaning of which it
                        is capable, which in English is expressed by the word 'hurl', and so on.
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