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Re: [glosalist] Re: Better grammar discussion

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  • Nick N. Mikhailenko
    Thank you for your idea. Evrebody may use the words of home-language and the simple translator to Glosa or Esperanto Nikolaj. ... From: sydpidd@aol.com To:
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 2008
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      Thank you for your idea.
      Evrebody may use the words of home-language and the simple translator to Glosa or Esperanto

      Nikolaj.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: sydpidd@...
      To: glosalist@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 10:47 PM
      Subject: Re: [glosalist] Re: Better grammar discussion


      dear patrick and daniel
      i think that the things people are saying about glosa is that there are

      various styles of the one language. if for instance, you wanted to

      write poetry, you would be free with word order and grammar. if you

      needed to give precise instructions you would need some sort of strict

      grammar. both styles have their places in glosa - here are some

      thoughts about the more strict grammar.
      "yesterday, the men went to london"
      we can divde the sentence into "essential" section and "extra"(=

      "yesterday"). the essential section can be divided into "indicated"

      part(="the men") and "information" part which can also be divded into 2

      "went" and "to london"
      the indicating part carries number - single/plural, the first part of

      information carries time - past present and future ( "went"=past). the

      second information part is more variable.
      I have been interested in glosa for about 30 or 40 years and often

      found it difficult to understand what has been written in glosa, my

      memory has become worse over the years so i call in the help of my

      computer to translate english to glosa and back. i first sketch the

      english into my version of glosa grammar and have the computer replace

      the "english" with glosa words.i.e.
      "ths man dd go to london "
      "ths" is the introducing word of the phrase- "ths=a/the" plural,

      "th=a/the" singular", "man" = the head word (noun - countable word).

      the number is carried by the introducing word/ "dd"=did ........

      prog being naughty !!!!!!

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    • sydpidd@aol.com
      insect eat plant insect/number eat/time-direction of meaning plant/number 1=(insect/plural-indicated) 2=(eat/past and present and future-usual - info,
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 11, 2008
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        insect eat plant
        insect/number eat/time-direction of meaning plant/number
        1=(insect/plural-indicated) 2=(eat/past and present and future-usual -

        info, meaning order) 3=(plant/singular info)
        1,2 and 3 could be in any order depending on the language
        ths insect do eat th plant
        u insekti du vora u fito


        1=(insect/plural,indic), 2=(eat/present unusual, 3=(plant)singular
        ths insect now ge (from gets) eaten by th plant
        plu insekti nu ge vora per u fito
        the insects are being eaten by the plant (plant called "sundew"=

        Drosera rotundifola)

        syd






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      • Zhenyu
        Ci, in pa-tem, es poli interese sti-ma-boni sugesti pro Glosa!
        Message 3 of 7 , Apr 13, 2010
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          Ci, in pa-tem, es poli interese sti-ma-boni sugesti pro Glosa!

          --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "patbe91" <patbe91@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello!
          >
          > I am new to glosa and I am strongly convinced by the basic idea of
          > concept-words, the affixes and much more.
          >
          > I have read the 'seminar1' problems. I still think that no language
          > should be misused by trying to translate word by word and see if it
          > works. Any language has its own way of expression and trying to copy
          > a european-language sentence directly into glosa is likely to fail.
          >
          > Nevertheless, I have had quite some problems understanding glosa
          > sentences. And although writing in glosa might look easy at first
          > sight, I think it is in fact difficult to avoid ambiguities. This
          > has already been discussed here before, and I think the fact that
          > most conversation here takes place in English is hinting at this
          > problem. In my opinion Daniel Macouin has some good ideas to improve
          > the language, however, as he remarks, 'heavy' ones. Perhaps some
          > more English 'benchmark sentences' are needed which would be
          > translated into standard glosa and variants like pan-glosa, as a
          > basis for discussing precision and elegance.
          >
          > I like Daniel Macouin's ideas but also propose here another solution
          > for one of the problems.
          >
          >
          > My example sentence is:
          >
          > U paleo kali avi kanta...
          >
          > Does the above mean: "The old beautiful bird sings..." or "The old,
          > beautiful bird-tune..." or "The Old sings beautiful bird-tunes..."
          > is not immediately obvious, it is hidden in the semantics. We need
          > to mark the noun. In fact glosa already has noun-markers. The U is
          > marking the noun, however I really do not understand why it is not
          > placed next to the noun, like:
          >
          > Paleo kali u avi kanta.
          >
          > This would immediately signal to the reader that kanta is NOT the
          > noun, but avi is. This way, the U would serve two goals, to signal
          > number and Subject of the sentence. Did I miss any reason for
          > placing the "U" at the beginning of the sentence, except for being
          > similar to English?
          >
          >
          > This was my simple suggestion. But nevertheless, Pan-Glosa has
          > better changes to offer.
          >
          > The "ge" to mark 'verbs of state' = adjectives is a very nice thing.
          > We still think too much in the categories of european grammar, I
          > think.
          >
          > In fact, when we say in glosa
          >
          > "U avi habe (u) ponde", "U avi es ponde" and "U avi ponde"; A bird
          > has a weight, a bird is heavy, a bird weighs...
          >
          > In all three cases we mean that "a bird has the property of weight".
          > All other differences are differences of European grammatical
          > categories. And because of this, some English people try to avoid
          > the word "be". A bird is not a weight! It is ambiguous and not very
          > elegant.
          >
          > So I do not like the "es" very much and to indicate that ponde is a
          > noun is not necessary. So although glosa explicitly wants to avoid
          > the pseudo-information which exists in these Europein-style
          > constructs, it we can write glosa like this. But at the same time it
          > does not provide unambiguous ways of expressing the real content:
          > The interrelation of a noun's properties and actions, where it lacks
          > some markers. On the other hand the Chinese property-marker is 'de'
          > in the order adjective - de - noun. weight - de - avi
          >
          > So I think "U avi ge ponde" is much more elegant than glosa's
          > options and "noun - property marker - property - action marker -
          > action" really seems a good scheme, in my opinion.
          >
          > I myself had tried to implement such a scheme by using "qa" as the
          > property "qalita" marker and "ak" as the "aktio" marker before
          > reading Daniel's posts:
          >
          > E.g. "Tri dromo-pe qa celero e fo-sono e excesi sudo e alti keiro ak
          > dice qa celero e excita e fo-sono tem dromo."
          >
          > Or also:
          >
          > Celero e fo-sono e excesi sudo e alti keiro (plu) tri dromo-pe ak
          > dice qa celero e excita e fo-sono tem dromo.
          >
          > But ge and go are of course equivalent.
          >
          > I think pan-glosa might be:
          >
          > Celero fo\sono excesi\sono alti\keiro tri dromo-pe go dice ge celero
          > excita fo\sono tem dromo.
          >
          >
          > I still contemplate if "jo" and "li" are needed.
          >
          > Jo Pan-glosa go es li u evolve de Glosa ...
          >
          > is more complicated than
          >
          > Pan-glosa ge u evolve de Glosa ...
          >
          > or even shorter:
          >
          > Pan-glosa ge evolve de Glosa ...
          >
          >
          > I will continue thinking about that.
          >
          > Patrick
          >
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