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Pan-glosa

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  • Daniel MACOUIN
    Glosa stay in coma and nobody on this forum. Glosa can not have the necessary minimal changes to maintain it alive. So, I use the freedom keeped by this
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 5, 2007
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      Glosa stay in coma and nobody on this forum. Glosa can not have the
      necessary minimal changes to maintain it alive.
      So, I use the freedom keeped by this vacuum for explore any ways and
      now explain a reformed Glosa. I cannot use, naturelly, the private
      name of Glosa, and I choice Pan-glosa (Interglosa> Glosa > Pan-glosa)
      for this "glosa++", where all is concept-word.

      In Glosa, a word can be noun, verb, adverb or adjective. "Sampai", in
      indonesian language (+150 000 000 speakers) may used as verb or
      preposition or adverb ("to reach" or "until"). Many prepositions
      (di, dari, ke ...) may be used in this tongue, without verbs, to say
      that need verb and prepositions in english or roman languages. If it
      is possible in the austronesian languages, it is possible to extend
      the concept of concept-word at all the vocables, except a very limited
      list of markers.

      ************************************************
      GRAMMAR OF PAN-GLOSA

      The sentence order is allways SVO subject>verb>complement [glosa's rule]
      In a clause, a word modifies the following one. The last word of the
      clause is the verb or the noun.[glosa's rule]


      Limited list of special words of Pan-glosa, that are not general concepts:
      1- Personnal Pronouns : MI TI ON NI VU MU SE. Note the changes the
      glosa's NA and VI to NI and VU, and the unique third singular person.
      2- Relative pronoun QI [glosa's rule]
      3- Articles U (singular) and LU (plural) [glosa's rule] [Lu is the new
      form of PLU, that becomes an abbreviation of PLURI]
      4- Interrogative markers QE and QO [glosa's rule]
      5- Conjunctions E and ALO [glosa's rule]
      6- the special discursive markers : CO [glosa's rule] and the new CE
      (= what I will said now) [Pan-glosa's rule]
      IT'S ALL! only 16 words.
      [ 7- and the operators in mathematical algorythmes : PLUS EQI MULTA
      SU POTA ... and so on. ] [glosa's rule for a part and pan-glosa'rule:
      note the diferences MULTI/MULTA, EQI/EQA ...]

      Important rules :
      a- all the normal words may be link with an article or a personnal
      pronoun for explain a gender (an-on, fe-tu, bio-on, bio-lu, ru-lu
      ...) in the choice of the speaker or writer. [Pan-glosa's rule]
      b- Using -CO or -CE as suffix, and any word become a preposition,
      which mark the end of a verbal or nominal clause and/or the beginning
      of a nominal clause.. [Pan-glosa's rule]
      c- Cardinal numbers need to be suffixed with -LU (exept MONO-U) .
      [Pan-glosa's rule]
      d- Propers nouns and pronouns cannot be use as concept-word (never
      adjective, never verb, never adverb, never preposition). They can only
      be used as subject or object.. [Pan-glosa's rule]
      e- E and ALO are used for link to words. For link two clauses or
      phrases, . [Pan-glosa's rule] it is recommended, but not allways
      compulsory, the help of the suffixes -CO and -CE (e-co, alo-ce...)

      Vocabulary changes:
      i- Use KAU in place of KA (ambiguity with -KA (the suffixal form of
      KAMERA))
      ii- Extend the meaning of PRO and use it in place of TE (ambiguity
      with -TE (suffixal form of TEXTILI)
      iii- GE is the marker of the clause beginning with status verbs
      (=adjectives) . [Pan-glosa's rule]
      iv- GO is the marker of the clause beginning with active verbs
      (transitive) . [Pan-glosa's rule]
      v- the personnal pronouns may not be used as possessive: use MIA TUA
      ONA NIA VUA MUA , whiches are normal concept-words and may be used as
      noun, verb, preposition, adverb, adjectives... . [Pan-glosa's rule]
      vi- for proper nouns, use a compound e.g : PETER-ONA DOMO (Peter's house)
      **************************************************
      Naturelly, I am afraid myself, by the hight freedom of the syntax.
      Pan-glosa need now any texts to prove its congruence.

      Daniel
    • Lluís Batlle
      I don t know if there have been many grammar forks, but I think that a good compilation of grammar rules should be written for the glosa words. I think glosa
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 5, 2007
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        I don't know if there have been many grammar forks, but I think that a
        good compilation of grammar rules should be written for the glosa
        words.

        I think glosa has a good dictionary, but I don't like its grammar (if
        it has every anywhere written, other than translate from English
        almost word by word). I already saw here some comments saying that
        English has the grammar nearest to the theorified Universal Grammar,
        so glosa takes profit of it mimicking English rules.

        Mi tial plu preferas esperanton - obeu la vortaron kaj la regulojn (eĉ
        se nur la fundamentajn), kaj vi atingos kompreneblan frazon.

        But I'd like someone to provide a nice bunch of simple grammar rules,
        specially on word order, transitiveness and all around it, ... using
        the glosa words.

        lojban does a nice job describing the syntax of the verb-around
        details in each dictionary entry. Glosa bases that on basic
        propositions, so verbs should be described related to prepositions,
        subjects and direct objects.

        Otherwise, the 'glosa grammar' (or pan-glosa) would still say: "In
        order to create a sentence in glosa, use the English grammar, and
        translate to glosa using the following rules: (the glosa rules)"

        2007/11/6, Daniel MACOUIN <lenadi_moucina@...>:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Glosa stay in coma and nobody on this forum. Glosa can not have the
        > necessary minimal changes to maintain it alive.
        > So, I use the freedom keeped by this vacuum for explore any ways and
        > now explain a reformed Glosa. I cannot use, naturelly, the private
        > name of Glosa, and I choice Pan-glosa (Interglosa> Glosa > Pan-glosa)
        > for this "glosa++", where all is concept-word.
        >
        > In Glosa, a word can be noun, verb, adverb or adjective. "Sampai", in
        > indonesian language (+150 000 000 speakers) may used as verb or
        > preposition or adverb ("to reach" or "until"). Many prepositions
        > (di, dari, ke ...) may be used in this tongue, without verbs, to say
        > that need verb and prepositions in english or roman languages. If it
        > is possible in the austronesian languages, it is possible to extend
        > the concept of concept-word at all the vocables, except a very limited
        > list of markers.
        >
        > ************************************************
        > GRAMMAR OF PAN-GLOSA
        >
        > The sentence order is allways SVO subject>verb>complement [glosa's rule]
        > In a clause, a word modifies the following one. The last word of the
        > clause is the verb or the noun.[glosa's rule]
        >
        > Limited list of special words of Pan-glosa, that are not general concepts:
        > 1- Personnal Pronouns : MI TI ON NI VU MU SE. Note the changes the
        > glosa's NA and VI to NI and VU, and the unique third singular person.
        > 2- Relative pronoun QI [glosa's rule]
        > 3- Articles U (singular) and LU (plural) [glosa's rule] [Lu is the new
        > form of PLU, that becomes an abbreviation of PLURI]
        > 4- Interrogative markers QE and QO [glosa's rule]
        > 5- Conjunctions E and ALO [glosa's rule]
        > 6- the special discursive markers : CO [glosa's rule] and the new CE
        > (= what I will said now) [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > IT'S ALL! only 16 words.
        > [ 7- and the operators in mathematical algorythmes : PLUS EQI MULTA
        > SU POTA ... and so on. ] [glosa's rule for a part and pan-glosa'rule:
        > note the diferences MULTI/MULTA, EQI/EQA ...]
        >
        > Important rules :
        > a- all the normal words may be link with an article or a personnal
        > pronoun for explain a gender (an-on, fe-tu, bio-on, bio-lu, ru-lu
        > ...) in the choice of the speaker or writer. [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > b- Using -CO or -CE as suffix, and any word become a preposition,
        > which mark the end of a verbal or nominal clause and/or the beginning
        > of a nominal clause.. [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > c- Cardinal numbers need to be suffixed with -LU (exept MONO-U) .
        > [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > d- Propers nouns and pronouns cannot be use as concept-word (never
        > adjective, never verb, never adverb, never preposition). They can only
        > be used as subject or object.. [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > e- E and ALO are used for link to words. For link two clauses or
        > phrases, . [Pan-glosa's rule] it is recommended, but not allways
        > compulsory, the help of the suffixes -CO and -CE (e-co, alo-ce...)
        >
        > Vocabulary changes:
        > i- Use KAU in place of KA (ambiguity with -KA (the suffixal form of
        > KAMERA))
        > ii- Extend the meaning of PRO and use it in place of TE (ambiguity
        > with -TE (suffixal form of TEXTILI)
        > iii- GE is the marker of the clause beginning with status verbs
        > (=adjectives) . [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > iv- GO is the marker of the clause beginning with active verbs
        > (transitive) . [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > v- the personnal pronouns may not be used as possessive: use MIA TUA
        > ONA NIA VUA MUA , whiches are normal concept-words and may be used as
        > noun, verb, preposition, adverb, adjectives... . [Pan-glosa's rule]
        > vi- for proper nouns, use a compound e.g : PETER-ONA DOMO (Peter's house)
        > **************************************************
        > Naturelly, I am afraid myself, by the hight freedom of the syntax.
        > Pan-glosa need now any texts to prove its congruence.
        >
        > Daniel
        >
        >



        --
        X-Face: (~qy,~JfcD?|k0G-8C'&9Ud9!XKpG@H)pt[Z&h"PWE<L"%lCm;7ngIRD}K~hotq9`I]q_6F
        vGXHl"tKOF]dnFDO}^Em{ntsGBw`J9.<k@I[S$J8a*;_sC4D0j#BTBXN$hN"u9_":bv@emQ(]-O|9Z
        /mib8^PsDy4M$.\ZMN4SJ=;2wb.'MD6)M]
      • Daniel MACOUIN
        ... English has the grammar nearest to the theorified Universal Grammar, so glosa takes profit of it mimicking English rules. It sems this is asserted by
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 6, 2007
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          --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Lluís Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
          >
          > I already saw here some comments saying that
          English has the grammar nearest to the theorified Universal Grammar,
          so glosa takes profit of it mimicking English rules.

          It sems this is asserted by english native linguists!
        • Lluís Batlle
          ... I also don t doubt that. -- X-Face: (~qy,~JfcD?|k0G-8C &9Ud9!XKpG@H)pt[Z&h PWE
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 6, 2007
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            2007/11/6, Daniel MACOUIN <lenadi_moucina@...>:
            > --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Lluís Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I already saw here some comments saying that
            > English has the grammar nearest to the theorified Universal Grammar,
            > so glosa takes profit of it mimicking English rules.
            >
            > It sems this is asserted by english native linguists!
            I also don't doubt that.

            --
            X-Face: (~qy,~JfcD?|k0G-8C'&9Ud9!XKpG@H)pt[Z&h"PWE<L"%lCm;7ngIRD}K~hotq9`I]q_6F
            vGXHl"tKOF]dnFDO}^Em{ntsGBw`J9.<k@I[S$J8a*;_sC4D0j#BTBXN$hN"u9_":bv@emQ(]-O|9Z
            /mib8^PsDy4M$.\ZMN4SJ=;2wb.'MD6)M]
          • sydpidd@aol.com
            i have been working on the grammar problem - shall try to put my ideas together on glosalist shall look at pan-glosa - looks interesting syd [Non-text portions
            Message 5 of 14 , Nov 6, 2007
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              i have been working on the grammar problem - shall try to put my ideas
              together on glosalist
              shall look at pan-glosa - looks interesting
              syd






              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Lluís Batlle
              Mi laŭdas vian iniciaton. Se mi devus tion fari, mi eble prenus la ideon de la fundamento de esperanto. ... -- X-Face:
              Message 6 of 14 , Nov 6, 2007
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                Mi laŭdas vian iniciaton.
                Se mi devus tion fari, mi eble prenus la ideon de la fundamento de esperanto.

                2007/11/6, sydpidd@... <sydpidd@...>:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > i have been working on the grammar problem - shall try to put my ideas
                > together on glosalist
                > shall look at pan-glosa - looks interesting
                > syd
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >



                --
                X-Face: (~qy,~JfcD?|k0G-8C'&9Ud9!XKpG@H)pt[Z&h"PWE<L"%lCm;7ngIRD}K~hotq9`I]q_6F
                vGXHl"tKOF]dnFDO}^Em{ntsGBw`J9.<k@I[S$J8a*;_sC4D0j#BTBXN$hN"u9_":bv@emQ(]-O|9Z
                /mib8^PsDy4M$.\ZMN4SJ=;2wb.'MD6)M]
              • Daniel MACOUIN
                ... esperanto. ... If I hope a good Glosa, it is because it is not esperanto. Esperanto exist, why make a new esperanto clone? Really, the interest of Glosa
                Message 7 of 14 , Nov 6, 2007
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                  --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Llu�s Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Mi laÅ­das vian iniciaton.
                  > Se mi devus tion fari, mi eble prenus la ideon de la fundamento de
                  esperanto.
                  >

                  If I hope a good Glosa, it is because it is not esperanto. Esperanto
                  exist, why make a new esperanto clone?
                  Really, the interest of Glosa stay in its different concept of the
                  grammar and than it use not endings for recognize the function of the
                  words.
                  So the problem stay : how understand what word explain the action,
                  what word is the subject, if a word is a modifier or an other thing...
                  I think that Pan-glosa offers a possible maner to solve any
                  difficulties. Thus,I do not know if this new Glosa becomes easy to
                  learn and easy to use for many peoples, but I am sure that if we need
                  a other international language, it would be different of English or
                  Esperanto or romance tongue or chinese or arabic or naustrian
                  language, and so on. The rules of nobody for everybody.

                  Daniel
                • Lluís Batlle
                  ... I don t think Esperanto has a bad grammar. I simply think that glosa has a better dictionary. ... No problem. I didn t say I want to use the esperanto
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 7, 2007
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                    2007/11/7, Daniel MACOUIN <lenadi_moucina@...>:
                    > --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Llu�s Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Mi laŭdas vian iniciaton.
                    > > Se mi devus tion fari, mi eble prenus la ideon de la fundamento de
                    > esperanto.
                    > >
                    >
                    > If I hope a good Glosa, it is because it is not esperanto. Esperanto
                    > exist, why make a new esperanto clone?
                    I don't think Esperanto has a bad grammar. I simply think that glosa
                    has a better dictionary.
                    > Really, the interest of Glosa stay in its different concept of the
                    > grammar and than it use not endings for recognize the function of the
                    > words.
                    No problem. I didn't say I want to use the esperanto fundamentals, but
                    that someone could get it as a reference. There are quite a few rules,
                    and therefore, mimicking those rules for glosa, we could get a bunch
                    of rules covering all kinds of expressions quite well. I don't propose
                    basing anything on word endings.

                    > So the problem stay : how understand what word explain the action,
                    > what word is the subject, if a word is a modifier or an other thing...
                    > I think that Pan-glosa offers a possible maner to solve any
                    > difficulties. Thus,I do not know if this new Glosa becomes easy to
                    > learn and easy to use for many peoples, but I am sure that if we need
                    > a other international language, it would be different of English or
                    > Esperanto or romance tongue or chinese or arabic or naustria.n
                    > language, and so on. The rules of nobody for everybody.
                    Well, the Esperanto grammar was created in a similar way you're
                    creating pan-glosa. I don't understand why you put it in the basket of
                    natural languages.

                    On the other hand, most of the languages I know use some word endings,
                    at least for the most regular words. You have the -ing, -s, -ly, -ed,
                    morfological changes in english. Compared to Catalan, I see that
                    English doesn't distinguish verbs, adjectives and nouns through
                    endings, as most words can act as any of those syntax elements. It has
                    a stricter word order than other languages, and as I think that glosa
                    mimicks English quite a lot in that sense, I'd try to write the word
                    order rules.

                    On the other hand, I've never been taught English through explicit
                    rules. I've always been taught it by examples, letting the brain work
                    out the rules. Every other simple people I know have learnt English
                    this way. Only those studying English philology have studied those
                    rules, and they say that those rules are hell. Until the initiative
                    from sydpidd, I've seen the same intent here, teach by examples.

                    From an international language, I'd like some basic facts. And I'm
                    proudly happy that Esperanto fulfills them right now, when any other
                    natural language I've tried doesn't. When I say any sentence in the
                    "international language", I expect 1) the other side to understand
                    what I meant. Moreover, I want the listener to know, 2) if he
                    understood right. And lately, I don't want the listener to say 3) "you
                    said it right, but we don't talk this way, so you use the language
                    wrong".

                    The first comes easy, even with glosa, I guess. I think the second
                    cannot be provided by glosa right now, as there are no rules to check
                    with. Knowing Esperanto rules provides this. Knowing very well a
                    natural language probably gives that too. And going to the third, I
                    found only Esperanto to provide it. As in it, the rules, still,
                    overdetermine the speech, despite the language habits of each group or
                    individual. I'd like glosa to fulfill my third need, although you may
                    not agree with it.

                    Regards,
                    Lluís.
                  • Daniel MACOUIN
                    ... Also me! Really, I like very much the Esperanto s system and I think that the Glosa s vortaro is a nice thing. ... The endings are the basically system in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 7, 2007
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                      --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Lluís Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I don't think Esperanto has a bad grammar. I simply think that glosa
                      > has a better dictionary.

                      Also me! Really, I like very much the Esperanto's system and I think
                      that the Glosa's vortaro is a nice thing.

                      > I don't propose basing anything on word endings.

                      The endings are the basically system in Esperanto to recognize the
                      word-role, and we can nicely use them with freedom. Glosa, without
                      endings, need an other system to give a same liberty. So the problem
                      stay : how understand what word explain the action, what word is a
                      noun, what word is a modifier...

                      > I'd like glosa to fulfill my third need, although you may not agree
                      with it.

                      I am in accord with you!
                      1)to can say what I want to say
                      2)others can understand what I want to say
                      3)and nobody depreciate my style!
                      I look for this : each expresses himself as he can, the only condition
                      is that the others understand. This need any rules, the way for learn
                      the rules is a problem of pedagogy, important but different.

                      Daniel
                    • Daniel MACOUIN
                      Please! change CLAUSE for PHRASE in my primitive message about Pan-glosa GRAMMAR OF PAN-GLOSA The sentence order is allways SVO subject verb complement
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 7, 2007
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                        Please! change CLAUSE for PHRASE in my primitive message about Pan-glosa

                        GRAMMAR OF PAN-GLOSA

                        The sentence order is allways SVO subject>verb>complement [glosa's rule]
                        In a PHRASE, a word modifies the following one. The last word of the
                        PHRASE is the verb or the noun.[glosa's rule]

                        Excuse-me for this mistake, but English is a nightmare for me, since
                        my first days in the college, many years ago!

                        Daniel
                      • Daniel MACOUIN
                        http://www.glosa.org/en/seminar1.htm http://www.glosa.org/en/seminar2.htm In october 2007, I have published on this forum a translation of the Robin Gaskell s
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 8, 2007
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                          http://www.glosa.org/en/seminar1.htm
                          http://www.glosa.org/en/seminar2.htm

                          In october 2007, I have published on this forum a translation of the
                          Robin Gaskell's seminars examples with new marker for the verbal phrases.
                          Now, I insist with the rules of Pan-glosa.
                          I am not certain that all is correct, I am a beginner in Pan-glosa!
                          and I think that others sentences may be used for explain in Pan-glosa
                          the ideas of the Robin'examples .
                          All the list is not yet translate, because all my time is not for
                          Glosa. Wait and see.

                          ***********


                          {an}{go]{fu ma}{boni}{tri-lu}{celero e fo-sono}{vagona}{ge}{rubi}.
                          [noun][verbe for transitive verb][modifiers][verb][compounded
                          article][modifiers][noun][marker for status verb][verb]

                          --note that in Pan-glosa, AN is not a pronoun. Only one third singular
                          person: ON, which accept to have "gender" (an-on, bio-on, ru-on,
                          fe-on, ...)

                          ***
                          the three fast, loud red cars
                          RG - plu tri celero fo-sono rubi vagona
                          Pg - Tri-lu celero e fo-sono vagona ge rubi.
                          tri-lu celero, fo-sono e rubi vagona
                          ***
                          ...were quickly and excitedly talking loudly
                          ... pa du celero e excita fo-sono dice
                          ... go pa du \ celero e excita e fo-sono dice
                          -- note: "\" is a punctuation to link the precedent word to the last
                          of the phrase, over the others. Talking, it may be only a pause in
                          the voice, but it may be really expressed if necessary by ZU.

                          ***
                          while running
                          tem kursi
                          tem kursi
                          ***
                          The boy arrived.
                          U ju-an pa ariva
                          Ju-an go pa ariva
                          ***
                          The girl went home.
                          U ju-fe pa ki a fe domi
                          a) U ju-fe go pa ki ad u ona domi
                          b) U ju-fe go pa ki ad-ce ona domi
                          -- note : in a) AD is a verb and KI is a modifier
                          in b) KI is a verb an AD becomes a preposition with the use
                          of -CE (-CO and -CE are symetrical)
                          ***
                          The man will eat the meal.
                          RG- Un andra fu vora u vora
                          Pg- U andra go fu vora u vora
                          ***
                          She spoke so loudly that she was heard.
                          RG- Fe pa ta sono dice ke fe pa gene ge-audi
                          Pg- Fe go pa ta sono ke on ge pa audi
                          ***
                          The girl went home after she had eaten a good meal.
                          RG- U ju-fe pa ki a fe domi, po fe pra vora u boni vora
                          Pg- U ju-fe go pa ki ad-ce ona domi, po-ce on go pra vora u boni vora
                          ***
                          I like to get away from the house.
                          RG- Mi amo gene ab u domi
                          Pg- Mi go amo(gene)ab u domi
                          ***
                          The boy, who was fat and badly dressed, arrived.
                          RG- U ju-an; qi pa es paki e mali ge-vesti, pa ariva.
                          Pg- (U) ju-an ge-pa paki e mali-vesti, go pa ariva.
                          ***
                          The farmer hoped that it would rain.
                          RG- Un agri-pe pa spera : ke id sio pluvi
                          Pg- a)U agri-pe go-pa spera ce: (klima)-(on)go-sio pluvi
                          b) U agri-pe go-pa spera u sio pluvi
                          ***
                          The letter was posted by the man.
                          RG- U grama pa gene ge-posta ex un andra
                          Pg- a) U grama ge pa posta per-ce andra.
                          b) U grama ge pa posta per-u andra.
                          c) U grama ge pa posta per u andra.
                          [d) andra go pa posta u grama]
                          ***
                          running (=to run) on wet grass
                          RG- kursi epi ge-hidra gra
                          Pg- a)(go) kursi epi-ce hidra gra
                          b) go epi kursi u hidra gra
                          c) go kursi epi u gra ge hidra
                          d) kursi epi-ce hidra gra
                          e) kursi epi-ce gra ge hidra
                          ***
                          the three uncounted, shouting, dirty boys
                          RG- Plu tri no-ge-numera, fo-sono, no-puri ju-an
                          Pg- Tri-lu no-numera, fo-sono, no-puri ju-an
                          Tri-lu fo-sono e no-puri ju-an ge no-numera
                          ***
                          ... did not happily, quietly try to run
                          RG- ... ne pa hedo, no-soni tenta kursi
                          Pg- a) ... ge ne hedo, ge no-soni go pa tenta kursi
                          b) ...go ne-hedo e no-soni, pa ne tenta u kursi

                          ***
                          The dog drinks the water.
                          RG- U kani bibe u hidra
                          Pg- U kani go bibe u hidra
                          ***
                          He very-much enjoys to drink/drinking.
                          RG- An fo hedo bibe
                          Pg- a)(an-)on ge fo hedo de-ce bibe
                          b) on go fo hedo bibe
                          c) An ge fo hedo ke on go bibe
                        • Daniel MACOUIN
                          I realize that one of the most important rule of the grammar of Glosa might be changed ! In a phrase it might be better than we consider that a word DO NOT
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 12, 2007
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                            I realize that one of the most important rule of the grammar of Glosa
                            might be changed !
                            In a phrase it might be better than we consider that a word DO NOT
                            modify the followed word.
                            In fact it is, actually, the reality for many words : tense markers,
                            numbers, quantifiers, determinant…
                            e.g. this example in Robin Gaskell seminar :
                            « ii. Sequence in Phrases
                            a)Noun Phrases
                            Noun - Determinant - Numerator - Quantifier - Modifier(s) -
                            'noun'
                            Marker
                            EG. u plura tri-loba mega alti, rubi
                            flori »

                            So, I think that, perhaps, it is better to admit, in Pan-glosa, that
                            in a group (phrase) a word modifies the last word (i.e the important
                            word (verb or noun)), except if a mark expressely says that it
                            modifies the word which follow it. I imagine the word ZI, which can
                            be marked by letters (Zi) or by a special punctuation (~). If it is a
                            punctuation, it is not already necessery to say it if the mode of
                            speaking is clear.

                            e.g. u plura tri-loba mega ~ alti rubi flori
                            e.g. u plura tri-loba mega zi alti rubi flori


                            U, PLURA, TRI-LOBA, ALTI, RUBI, modify FLORI,
                            but MEGA modifies ALTI.

                            I am not sure if X ~ Y can have a different meaning as X-Y.

                            Daniel
                          • Lluís Batlle
                            If you like these kinds of things (which word modifies which), I suggest looking at the particle pi of toki pona.
                            Message 13 of 14 , Nov 12, 2007
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                              If you like these kinds of things (which word modifies which), I
                              suggest looking at the particle 'pi' of toki pona.
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona#Adjectives

                              (I don't think it may help for Pan-glosa, but you my consider it fun)

                              2007/11/12, Daniel MACOUIN <lenadi_moucina@...>:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I realize that one of the most important rule of the grammar of Glosa
                              > might be changed !
                              > In a phrase it might be better than we consider that a word DO NOT
                              > modify the followed word.
                              > In fact it is, actually, the reality for many words : tense markers,
                              > numbers, quantifiers, determinant…
                              > e.g. this example in Robin Gaskell seminar :
                              > « ii. Sequence in Phrases
                              > a)Noun Phrases
                              > Noun - Determinant - Numerator - Quantifier - Modifier(s) -
                              > 'noun'
                              > Marker
                              > EG. u plura tri-loba mega alti, rubi
                              > flori »
                              >
                              > So, I think that, perhaps, it is better to admit, in Pan-glosa, that
                              > in a group (phrase) a word modifies the last word (i.e the important
                              > word (verb or noun)), except if a mark expressely says that it
                              > modifies the word which follow it. I imagine the word ZI, which can
                              > be marked by letters (Zi) or by a special punctuation (~). If it is a
                              > punctuation, it is not already necessery to say it if the mode of
                              > speaking is clear.
                              >
                              > e.g. u plura tri-loba mega ~ alti rubi flori
                              > e.g. u plura tri-loba mega zi alti rubi flori
                              >
                              > U, PLURA, TRI-LOBA, ALTI, RUBI, modify FLORI,
                              > but MEGA modifies ALTI.
                              >
                              > I am not sure if X ~ Y can have a different meaning as X-Y.
                              >
                              > Daniel
                              >
                              >
                            • Daniel MACOUIN
                              ... I know Toki pona, a nice language, and I thinked at PI when I imagined primitively the ZU ( ) for separate two word in a chain. It is not the first
                              Message 14 of 14 , Nov 12, 2007
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                                --- In glosalist@yahoogroups.com, "Lluís Batlle" <viriketo@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > If you like these kinds of things (which word modifies which), I
                                > suggest looking at the particle 'pi' of toki pona.
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toki_Pona#Adjectives
                                >
                                > (I don't think it may help for Pan-glosa, but you my consider it fun)
                                >

                                I know Toki pona, a nice language, and I thinked at "PI" when I
                                imagined primitively the ZU (\) for separate two word in a chain. It
                                is not the first language that use a same method: I think at FRATER, a
                                brother of Glosa, which use two word-keys for precize the order in a
                                group. It seems, but I not yet learned it, that Logban have a similar
                                system.

                                Glosa is a so good base! I wish that somebody can find a elegant
                                system to solve the grammar ambiguity. Pan-glosa is just a laboratory
                                for trying any ways, I find my solutions rather logical, but heavy
                                ("lourd" in french).
                                Daniel
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