Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: In Antarctica, ice expands while both atmosphere and ocean warm...

Expand Messages
  • coloradoken
    Not sure what you are asking. Can you ask again? Ken
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Not sure what you are asking. Can you ask again?
      Ken

      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "ourphyl" <701wizz@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Perhaps one of our arm-chair heat experts would like to take a crack at
      > this:
      >
      > "Estimates of sea ice extent based on satellite observations show an
      > increasing Antarctic sea ice cover from 1979 to 2004 even though in situ
      > observations show a prevailing warming trend in both the atmosphere and
      > the ocean. This riddle is explored here using a global multicategory
      > thickness and enthalpy distribution sea ice model coupled to an ocean
      > model. Forced by the NCEP–NCAR reanalysis data, the model simulates
      > an increase of 0.20  1012 m3 yr1 (1.0% yr1) in total Antarctic sea ice
      > volume and 0.084  1012 m2 yr1 (0.6% yr1) in sea ice extent from 1979 to
      > 2004 when the satellite observations show an increase of 0.027  1012
      > m2 yr1 (0.2% yr1) in sea ice extent during the same period. The model
      > shows that an increase in surface air temperature and downward longwave
      > radiation results in an increase in the upper-ocean temperature and a
      > decrease in sea ice growth, leading to a decrease in salt rejection from
      > ice, in the upper-ocean salinity, and in the upper-ocean density. The
      > reduced salt rejection and upper-ocean density and the enhanced
      > thermohaline stratification tend to suppress convective overturning,
      > leading to a decrease in the upward ocean heat transport and the ocean
      > heat flux available to melt sea ice. The ice melting from ocean heat
      > flux decreases faster than the ice growth does in the weakly stratified
      > Southern Ocean, leading to an increase in the net ice production and
      > hence an increase in ice mass. This mechanism is the main reason why the
      > Antarctic sea ice has increased in spite of warming conditions both
      > above and below during the period 1979–2004 and the extended period
      > 1948–2004."
      >
      > http://psc.apl.washington.edu/zhang/Pubs/Zhang_Antarctic_20-11-2515.pdf
      > <http://psc.apl.washington.edu/zhang/Pubs/Zhang_Antarctic_20-11-2515.pdf\
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • ourphyl
      Hi Ken. Welcome back. ... at ... situ ... and ... How can this be? If surface temperatures of atmosphere and ocean are above thawing, ice should be melting
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Ken. Welcome back.

        --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "coloradoken" <kmcolo@...> wrote:
        >
        > Not sure what you are asking. Can you ask again?
        > Ken
        >
        > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "ourphyl" 701wizz@ wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > Perhaps one of our arm-chair heat experts would like to take a crack
        at
        > > this:
        > >
        > > "Estimates of sea ice extent based on satellite observations show an
        > > increasing Antarctic sea ice cover from 1979 to 2004 even though in
        situ
        > > observations show a prevailing warming trend in both the atmosphere
        and
        > > the ocean..."

        How can this be? If surface temperatures of atmosphere and ocean are
        above thawing, ice should be melting and disappearing - not increasing.
        How would you explain that?
        Is that same explanation what may be happening in a melting Alaskan
        glacier?
        TIA


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • lloydb
        Glacial advance and retreat is ALWAYS a question of moisture balance. If more snow falls than melts , the snow piles up and flows. If less snow falls than
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 1, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Glacial advance and retreat is ALWAYS a question of "moisture" balance. If more snow falls than melts , the snow piles up and flows. If less snow falls than melts (or in rare cases evaporates) the glacier retreats and goes away.

          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "ourphyl" <701wizz@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Ken. Welcome back.
          >
          > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "coloradoken" <kmcolo@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Not sure what you are asking. Can you ask again?
          > > Ken
          > >
          > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "ourphyl" 701wizz@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Perhaps one of our arm-chair heat experts would like to take a crack
          > at
          > > > this:
          > > >
          > > > "Estimates of sea ice extent based on satellite observations show an
          > > > increasing Antarctic sea ice cover from 1979 to 2004 even though in
          > situ
          > > > observations show a prevailing warming trend in both the atmosphere
          > and
          > > > the ocean..."
          >
          > How can this be? If surface temperatures of atmosphere and ocean are
          > above thawing, ice should be melting and disappearing - not increasing.
          > How would you explain that?
          > Is that same explanation what may be happening in a melting Alaskan
          > glacier?
          > TIA
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.