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Re: Northeast floods stir global warming debate

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  • tom_c2k6
    I of course added the to Steve s comments, not Marks. It s very late where I am and I m badly in need of some sleepzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...huh? ...see!
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 30, 2006
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      I of course added the >>> to Steve's comments, not Marks. It's very
      late where I am and I'm badly in need of some
      sleepzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...huh? ...see! I fell asleep typing!

      Good night all. :)

      Tom

      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:

      The little >>>> were missing from Mark's comments so I've added them
      and resent this on his behalf, as we don't want to confuse anyone
      about who is saying what, although one we now know is a certified
      genius. But still, some people might get mixed up.

      Tom

      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Steve Hollingsworth" <steveh_19@>
      To: <globalwarming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 8:42 PM
      Subject: [Global Warming] Re: Northeast floods stir global warming
      debate

      >Pat's post seems perfectly reasonable to me,
      >and with Mensa membership and a science degree
      >I'm hardly an "average schmo"
      >(by the way, I was under that rain!).

      >As for gullible, I have to wonder about people who
      >put their faith in sunspots, cosmic rays and
      >(next, probably) Martian invasions.

      I have found that the higher degree a person has, and the higher their
      tested IQ, the more gullible they are to really, REALLY stupid things.

      North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
      personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
      sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
      Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
      -------------------------------------------------------

      --- End forwarded message ---
    • Steve Hollingsworth
      Fortunately, I m not a genius - Mensa is for the top 2%; geniuses are much rarer and have special groups (for obvious reasons). There s a nice graph of AMO
      Message 2 of 30 , Jun 30, 2006
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        Fortunately, I'm not a genius - Mensa is for the top 2%; geniuses
        are much rarer and have special groups (for obvious reasons).

        There's a nice graph of AMO effect at
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Multidecadal_Oscillation - but
        it only accounts for 0.25 degrees C of SSTA when the oceans have
        warmed by almost 1 degree C on average (see next post).


        --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hollingsworth"
        > <steveh_19@> wrote:
        > >Pat's post seems perfectly reasonable to me,
        > >and with Mensa membership and a science degree
        > >I'm hardly an "average schmo"
        >
        > Sorry, Steve. I had no idea you were a genius. Why didn't you tell
        us
        > sooner? In any case, I don't believe I referred to you, in
        > particular, as an 'average schmo'. When did I do that?
        > As for the warmer waters of the Atlantic, have you not heard of
        the
        > AMO? It's a NATURAL cycling of the ocean. Happens every 20-30
        years.
        > The Atlantic is currently in it's active phase.
        >
        > Forwarded --
        >
        > NOAA expects below avg Pacific hurricanes, above avg Atlantic
        >
        > NOAA REVIEWS RECORD-SETTING 2005 ATLANTIC HURRICANE SEASON:
        >
        > Active Hurricane Era (in Atlantic Basin) Likely To Continue
        >
        > The Atlantic Basin is in the active phase of a multi-decadal cycle
        in
        > which optimal conditions in the ocean and atmosphere, including
        > warmer-than-average sea-surface temperatures and low wind shear,
        > enhance hurricane activity. This increase in the number and
        intensity
        > of tropical storms and hurricanes can span multiple decades
        > (approximately 20 to 30 years). NOAA will make its official 2006
        > season forecast in May, prior to the June 1st start to the season.
        >
        > 'Evidence of this active cycle was demonstrated this year as the
        > Atlantic Basin produced the equivalent of more than two entire
        > hurricane seasons over the course of one.'..."
        > -David L. Johnson, director of the NOAA National Weather Service
        > http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2540.htm
        >
        > The multi-decadal hurricane cycle:
        > Abstract:
        > "Anomalous long term variations of ocean heat transport offer an
        > attractive and intuitively creditable explanation for many long
        term
        > climate trends. Multi-decadal variations of intense Atlantic
        > hurricane activity are but one manifestation of an extensive array
        of
        > regional and global climate trends which appear to be linked to
        > variations of heat transport by the Atlantic thermohaline
        > circulation.
        >
        > In addition to influencing Atlantic tropical cyclones and the
        closely
        > associated West African monsoon, Atlantic thermohaline variability
        > appears to be linked to global SST variations and related trends
        > occurring throughout the global climate system. Consequently,
        > understanding decadal trends in hurricane activity may be
        critically
        > dependent on understanding the somewhat broader issue of decadal
        > variations of the major ocean circulations. ..."
        > Much more at:
        > http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Landsea/climtrend/
        >
        > NOAA 2006-054
        > 5/22/06 NOAA News Releases 2006
        > NOAA EXPECTS BELOW AVERAGE 2006 EAST PACIFIC HURRICANE SEASON:
        >
        > The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) today
        > released its 2006 east Pacific hurricane season outlook —
        predicting
        > a below average season with 12 to 16 tropical storms, of which six
        to
        > eight could become hurricanes, including one to three major
        > hurricanes of category 3 strength or greater.
        >
        > An average east Pacific hurricane season features 15 to 16 tropical
        > storms, with nine becoming hurricanes, including four to five major
        > hurricanes.
        >
        > 'The last three east Pacific hurricane seasons have been below
        > normal, following an overall trend of lower activity since 1995,'
        > said Jim Laver, director of NOAA's Climate Prediction Center in
        Camp
        > Springs, Md. Neutral El Niño/Southern Oscillation (ENSO) conditions
        > are expected across the equatorial Pacific during the next three to
        > six months. 'Therefore neither El Niño nor La Niña will likely be a
        > factor in this year's hurricane season,' added Laver.
        >
        > 'At present, the leading climate pattern affecting the east Pacific
        > hurricane season is a multi-decadal signal, which contributes to
        > stronger easterly winds at jet stream level and hence higher
        easterly
        > wind shear,' said Muthuvel Chelliah, NOAA's Climate Prediction
        Center
        > lead scientist on the east Pacific hurricane season outlook. Wind
        > shear refers to the change in winds between the lower and upper
        > atmosphere. Higher wind shear inhibits hurricane formation. "Since
        > 1995, despite the trend to warmer waters in the tropical east
        > Pacific, higher wind shear has contributed to fewer tropical
        storms,
        > hurricanes, and major hurricanes," noted Chelliah. ..."
        > http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/releases2006/may06/noaa06-
        054.html
        >
        > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Hollingsworth"
        > <steveh_19@> wrote:
        >
        > Pat's post seems perfectly reasonable to me, and with Mensa
        > membership and a science degree I'm hardly an "average schmo" (by
        > the way, I was under that rain!).
        >
        > As for gullible, I have to wonder about people who put their faith
        > in sunspots, cosmic rays and (next, probably) Martian invasions.
        >
        > The first paragraphs of the article are:
        >
        > "BOSTON (Reuters) - Images of swamped homes in the U.S. Northeast
        > deepened suspicions over global warming, giving ammunition to
        > scientists and others who say greenhouse gas-spewing cars and
        > factories are fueling extreme weather.
        >
        > Meteorologists cautioned that no one should read too much into one
        > storm. But the Atlantic Ocean is unusually warm for this time of
        > year, they said, creating excess moisture in the atmosphere that
        can
        > swiftly build a powerful rainstorm.
        >
        > Paul Epstein, associate director of Harvard Medical School's
        Center
        > for Health and the Global Environment, said the Atlantic is
        warming
        > faster than scientists projected even a decade ago, and he expects
        > such storms as the one seen this week from Virginia to New York to
        > become common.
        >
        > "Scientists and climatologists are looking at one another and
        we're
        > just stunned...."
        >
        >
        > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Good grief! you people are gullible. "deepens suspicions"? Of
        > course the "suspicions" of the average schmo will deepen when you
        > have con men like Al Bore out constantly shoving this BS down the
        > public's throat, with the left-wing media cluelessly repeating it.
        > >
        > > Tom
        >
        > --- End forwarded message ---
        >
      • tom_c2k6
        But, Wayne, it s true, basically. Look at how many highly educated, supposedly brilliant people are involved in radical left causes. The universities are
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 1 2:46 PM
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          But, Wayne, it's true, basically. Look at how many highly educated,
          supposedly 'brilliant' people are involved in radical left causes.
          The universities are full of such people. Many of them work
          ceaselessly to undermine our efforts to combat terrorism. Clearly,
          these folks are not rooted in reality, or reason.

          Tom

          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:
          >I think I understand. According to Mark ('The Cable Guy')
          >it takes an uneducated person to really understand what
          >he says is happening to the climate. ;<)
          >LWB

          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:

          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
          ><snip>

          > I have found that the higher degree a person has, and the higher
          their
          > tested IQ, the more gullible they are to really, REALLY stupid
          things.
          >
          > North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
          > personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
          > sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
          > Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
          > -------------------------------------------------------
          >
          I think I understand. According to Mark ('The Cable Guy') it takes an
          uneducated person to really understand what he says is happening to
          the climate. ;<)

          LWB

          --- End forwarded message ---
        • tom_c2k6
          http://tinyurl.com/jfkmt ... Hmmm. It may be that what he means is that educated people are able to think, not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 2 9:00 AM
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            http://tinyurl.com/jfkmt

            --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:

            Hmmm. It may be that what he means is that educated people are able to
            think, not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
            LWB

            --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
            >
            >Would you provide some references to substantiate your claim that
            >those of us who have put time and money into our education are more
            >gullible. I'm not inclined to take your word as 'proof' of anything.
            >
            >S
            >
            > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
            >>
            >>No, you don't understand at all.
            >>
            >>It is demonstrably true that the higher the IQ and
            >>associated "degrees of higher learning" the more
            >>susceptible people are to being duped by frauds.
            >>I think this has far more to do with thier tendency
            >>to cloister themselves into isolated and rarified
            >>positions where judgement, reason, and common sense
            >>are not exercised, honed, and tuned like they are
            >>for mere "mortals" who find themselves in need of
            >>those qualities daily.
            >>
            >>
            >>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
            >>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
            >>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
            >>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
            -
            > ---------
            > > -
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Wayne" <lwbittle@>
            > > To: <globalwarming@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:25 AM
            > > Subject: [Global Warming] Re: Northeast floods stir global
            warming
            > debate
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
            >>><snip>
            >>>
            >>>I have found that the higher degree a person has,
            >>>and the higher their tested IQ, the more gullible
            >>>they are to really, REALLY stupid things.
            >>>
            >>>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
            >>>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
            >>>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
            >>>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
            >>> -------------------------------------------------------
            >>
            >>I think I understand. According to Mark ('The Cable Guy') it takes
            an uneducated person to really understand what he says is happening
            to the climate. ;<)
            >>
            >> LWB
            >>
          • Wayne
            Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...... No thanks, I have enough of your insults here without asking for more. There is no way that you can
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 2 10:37 AM
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              Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly......

              No thanks, I have enough of your insults here without asking for more.
              There is no way that you can convince me that stupid is wise.

              LWB

              --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
              >
              > http://tinyurl.com/jfkmt
              >
              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
              >
              > Hmmm. It may be that what he means is that educated people are able to
              > think, not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
              > LWB
              >
              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
              > >
              > >Would you provide some references to substantiate your claim that
              > >those of us who have put time and money into our education are more
              > >gullible. I'm not inclined to take your word as 'proof' of anything.
              > >
              > >S
              > >
              > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>No, you don't understand at all.
              > >>
              > >>It is demonstrably true that the higher the IQ and
              > >>associated "degrees of higher learning" the more
              > >>susceptible people are to being duped by frauds.
              > >>I think this has far more to do with thier tendency
              > >>to cloister themselves into isolated and rarified
              > >>positions where judgement, reason, and common sense
              > >>are not exercised, honed, and tuned like they are
              > >>for mere "mortals" who find themselves in need of
              > >>those qualities daily.
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
              > >>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
              > >>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
              > >>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
              > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
              > -
              > > ---------
              > > > -
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: "Wayne" <lwbittle@>
              > > > To: <globalwarming@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:25 AM
              > > > Subject: [Global Warming] Re: Northeast floods stir global
              > warming
              > > debate
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
              > >>><snip>
              > >>>
              > >>>I have found that the higher degree a person has,
              > >>>and the higher their tested IQ, the more gullible
              > >>>they are to really, REALLY stupid things.
              > >>>
              > >>>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
              > >>>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
              > >>>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
              > >>>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
              > >>> -------------------------------------------------------
              > >>
              > >>I think I understand. According to Mark ('The Cable Guy') it takes
              > an uneducated person to really understand what he says is happening
              > to the climate. ;<)
              > >>
              > >> LWB
              > >>
              >
            • tom_c2k6
              ... Wayne, you must stop being so fearful and suspicious of people who think logically. The link was to the following educational site: Yahoo! Education
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 2 12:19 PM
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                > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
                >
                >Hmmm.
                >It may be that what he means is that
                >educated people are able to think,
                >not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
                >LWB

                Wayne, you must stop being so fearful and suspicious of people who
                think logically. The link was to the following educational site:

                Yahoo! Education > Reference > Dictionary >
                Dictionary Search Results:

                Sorry, we have no matches for propeganda
                Did you mean propaganda?
                ----------------------------------------
                Other Suggestions:
                propaganda's
                propagandise
                prepend
                propagated
                propellant
                propagandize
                propound
                propagate

                http://tinyurl.com/jfkmt

                --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:

                Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly......

                No thanks, I have enough of your insults here without asking for more.
                There is no way that you can convince me that stupid is wise.

                LWB

                --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@> wrote:
                >
                > http://tinyurl.com/jfkmt
                >
                > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
                >
                >Hmmm.
                >It may be that what he means is that
                >educated people are able to think,
                >not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
                >LWB
                >
                > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                > >
                > >Would you provide some references to substantiate your claim that
                > >those of us who have put time and money into our education are
                more
                > >gullible. I'm not inclined to take your word as 'proof' of
                anything.
                > >
                > >S
                > >
                > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
                > >>
                > >>No, you don't understand at all.
                > >>
                > >>It is demonstrably true that the higher the IQ and
                > >>associated "degrees of higher learning" the more
                > >>susceptible people are to being duped by frauds.
                > >>I think this has far more to do with their tendency
                > >>to cloister themselves into isolated and rarefied
                > >>positions where judgement, reason, and common sense
                > >>are not exercised, honed, and tuned like they are
                > >>for mere "mortals" who find themselves in need of
                > >>those qualities daily.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
                > >>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
                > >>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
                > >>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
                > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
                --
                > -
                > > ---------
                > > > -
                > > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > > From: "Wayne" <lwbittle@>
                > > > To: <globalwarming@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:25 AM
                > > > Subject: [Global Warming] Re: Northeast floods stir global
                > warming
                > > debate
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Mark K" <debate@> wrote:
                > >>><snip>
                > >>>
                > >>>I have found that the higher degree a person has,
                > >>>and the higher their tested IQ, the more gullible
                > >>>they are to really, REALLY stupid things.
                > >>>
                > >>>North East Oregon Fastnet, LLC 509-593-4061
                > >>>personal correspondence to: mark at neofast dot net
                > >>>sales inquiries to: purchasing at neofast dot net
                > >>>Fast Internet, NO WIRES!
                > >>> -------------------------------------------------------
                > >>
                > >>I think I understand. According to Mark ('The Cable Guy') it
                takes
                > an uneducated person to really understand what he says is happening
                > to the climate. ;<)
                > >>
                > >> LWB
                > >>
              • Wayne
                ... Yup, I misspelled it, and I can t even blame it on a nerve problem or because I was sleepy ........ :
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 2 1:01 PM
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                  --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >Hmmm.
                  > >It may be that what he means is that
                  > >educated people are able to think,
                  > >not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
                  > >LWB
                  >
                  > Wayne, you must stop being so fearful and suspicious of people who
                  > think logically. The link was to the following educational site:
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Education > Reference > Dictionary >
                  > Dictionary Search Results:
                  >
                  > Sorry, we have no matches for propeganda
                  > Did you mean propaganda?
                  > ----------------------------------------
                  > Other Suggestions:
                  > propaganda's
                  > propagandise
                  > prepend
                  > propagated
                  > propellant
                  > propagandize
                  > propound
                  > propagate
                  >


                  Yup, I misspelled it, and I can't even blame it on a 'nerve problem'
                  or because I was 'sleepy'........ :<)

                  Logic is only as good as the assumptions and data that entered into
                  the process. Faulty assumptions and data lead to faulty conclusions.
                  That is why education is important. We learn on the shoulders of giants.

                  LWB
                • lasallia
                  The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell. (also said Men are born ignorant, not
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 2 4:25 PM
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                    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                    intelligent are full of doubt.

                    Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                    They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                    ignorant.)

                    I'm having an interesting time in the UK. The gov't has issued a
                    heat-wave warning, because, in 2003, 2,000 people died here in the
                    extreme heat. My parents are feeling the heat quite badly. I am
                    fairly comfortable; the day I left Texas my living room was 98
                    degrees, because I won't use the AC unless absolutely necessary.
                    After a month here it will take a short while to acclimatise back in
                    Dallas. I am again struck by the differences in energy use between
                    here and the US. Although some are embracing the 'clothes dried by
                    hot air, air cooled by cold air' mentality, the vast majority still
                    open windows, and hang their washing out to dry. Lights are turned
                    off when not needed and few people doubt the significance of our
                    changing climate. A couple of hundred miles north today, flash
                    flooding sent rivers through the streets. We were amazed, yet not
                    surprised. This little island, this temperate little land, is
                    suffering the worst drought for a hundred years in the south east.
                    When I was a teenager, in the 70's, 80 degrees was declared a heat
                    wave. Now, 80 is just warm.

                    Sal
                  • tom_c2k6
                    ... You can t blame in on a typo either since e and a are not immediately next to each other on the standard keyboard. ... How true. But education is only as
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 2 5:48 PM
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                      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:
                      >Yup, I misspelled it, and I can't even blame it
                      >on a 'nerve problem' or because I was 'sleepy'........ :<)

                      You can't blame in on a typo either since e and a are not immediately
                      next to each other on the standard keyboard.

                      >Logic is only as good as the assumptions and data
                      >that entered into the process. Faulty assumptions and data
                      >lead to faulty conclusions.
                      >That is why education is important.
                      >We learn on the shoulders of giants.
                      >LWB

                      How true. But 'education' is only as good as the provider. If you've
                      received your education at one of the many institutions with a left
                      wing administration and teacher staff, you will most assuredly not be
                      receiving a fair and balanced education, but rather one decidedly
                      slanted to the liberal-left/internationalist perspective. You know,
                      the one that puts the U.N. above all else while blaming America and
                      capitalism for all the problems in the world.

                      Tom

                      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:

                      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@> wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >Hmmm.
                      > >It may be that what he means is that
                      > >educated people are able to think,
                      > >not just lock step with the right-winged propeganda.
                      > >LWB
                      >
                      > Wayne, you must stop being so fearful and suspicious of people who
                      > think logically. The link was to the following educational site:
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Education > Reference > Dictionary >
                      > Dictionary Search Results:
                      >
                      > Sorry, we have no matches for propeganda
                      > Did you mean propaganda?
                      > ----------------------------------------
                      > Other Suggestions:
                      > propaganda's
                      > propagandise
                      > prepend
                      > propagated
                      > propellant
                      > propagandize
                      > propound
                      > propagate
                      >


                      Yup, I misspelled it, and I can't even blame it on a 'nerve problem'
                      or because I was 'sleepy'........ :<)

                      Logic is only as good as the assumptions and data that entered into
                      the process. Faulty assumptions and data lead to faulty conclusions.
                      That is why education is important. We learn on the shoulders of
                      giants.

                      LWB
                    • tom_c2k6
                      ... Exactly! Sal, what s got into you? You are finally beginning to think rationally! That s terrific, although, to be honest, I didn t think it was possible!
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 2 7:22 PM
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                        --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
                        >and the intelligent are full of doubt.

                        Exactly!

                        Sal, what's got into you? You are finally beginning to think
                        rationally! That's terrific, although, to be honest, I didn't think
                        it was possible! Anyway, keep it up and you'll soon be arguing on our
                        side!

                        :)Tom

                        --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:

                        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                        intelligent are full of doubt.

                        Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                        They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                        ignorant.)

                        I'm having an interesting time in the UK. The gov't has issued a
                        heat-wave warning, because, in 2003, 2,000 people died here in the
                        extreme heat. My parents are feeling the heat quite badly. I am
                        fairly comfortable; the day I left Texas my living room was 98
                        degrees, because I won't use the AC unless absolutely necessary.
                        After a month here it will take a short while to acclimatise back in
                        Dallas. I am again struck by the differences in energy use between
                        here and the US. Although some are embracing the 'clothes dried by
                        hot air, air cooled by cold air' mentality, the vast majority still
                        open windows, and hang their washing out to dry. Lights are turned
                        off when not needed and few people doubt the significance of our
                        changing climate. A couple of hundred miles north today, flash
                        flooding sent rivers through the streets. We were amazed, yet not
                        surprised. This little island, this temperate little land, is
                        suffering the worst drought for a hundred years in the south east.
                        When I was a teenager, in the 70's, 80 degrees was declared a heat
                        wave. Now, 80 is just warm.

                        Sal
                        -
                      • Wayne
                        ... I am sure the meaning here was lost. LWB
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 2 7:43 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                          > intelligent are full of doubt.
                          >
                          > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                          > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                          > ignorant.)


                          I am sure the meaning here was lost.

                          LWB
                        • tom_c2k6
                          ... I don t know about that. Lots of people are born stupid. And no matter what their level of education remain that way for life. They may have memorized a
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 2 8:12 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            >"Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                            >They are made stupid by education."

                            I don't know about that. Lots of people are born stupid. And no
                            matter what their level of education remain that way for life. They
                            may have memorized a bunch of stuff in school but they'll never be
                            able to actually think correctly. I see this all the time in the
                            liberal-left area where I live.

                            Tom

                            --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@...> wrote:

                            --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                            >
                            > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                            > intelligent are full of doubt.
                            >
                            > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                            > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                            > ignorant.)


                            I am sure the meaning here was lost.

                            LWB
                          • lasallia
                            Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn t that what it comes down to? Other
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 2 11:10 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people
                              are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what it
                              comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your side
                              is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda. There
                              you go, I am full of doubt.

                              S


                              --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                              > >The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
                              > >and the intelligent are full of doubt.
                              >
                              > Exactly!
                              >
                              > Sal, what's got into you? You are finally beginning to think
                              > rationally! That's terrific, although, to be honest, I didn't
                              think
                              > it was possible! Anyway, keep it up and you'll soon be arguing on
                              our
                              > side!
                              >
                              > :)Tom
                              >
                              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                              >
                              > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                              > intelligent are full of doubt.
                              >
                              > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                              > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                              > ignorant.)
                              >
                              > I'm having an interesting time in the UK. The gov't has issued a
                              > heat-wave warning, because, in 2003, 2,000 people died here in the
                              > extreme heat. My parents are feeling the heat quite badly. I am
                              > fairly comfortable; the day I left Texas my living room was 98
                              > degrees, because I won't use the AC unless absolutely necessary.
                              > After a month here it will take a short while to acclimatise back
                              in
                              > Dallas. I am again struck by the differences in energy use
                              between
                              > here and the US. Although some are embracing the 'clothes dried
                              by
                              > hot air, air cooled by cold air' mentality, the vast majority
                              still
                              > open windows, and hang their washing out to dry. Lights are
                              turned
                              > off when not needed and few people doubt the significance of our
                              > changing climate. A couple of hundred miles north today, flash
                              > flooding sent rivers through the streets. We were amazed, yet not
                              > surprised. This little island, this temperate little land, is
                              > suffering the worst drought for a hundred years in the south
                              east.
                              > When I was a teenager, in the 70's, 80 degrees was declared a heat
                              > wave. Now, 80 is just warm.
                              >
                              > Sal
                              > -
                              >
                            • lasallia
                              And you have no doubt about that, do you? S ... They ... the ... stupid.
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 2 11:14 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                And you have no doubt about that, do you?

                                S


                                --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > >"Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                                > >They are made stupid by education."
                                >
                                > I don't know about that. Lots of people are born stupid. And no
                                > matter what their level of education remain that way for life.
                                They
                                > may have memorized a bunch of stuff in school but they'll never be
                                > able to actually think correctly. I see this all the time in the
                                > liberal-left area where I live.
                                >
                                > Tom
                                >
                                > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne" <lwbittle@> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and
                                the
                                > > intelligent are full of doubt.
                                > >
                                > > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not
                                stupid.
                                > > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                                > > ignorant.)
                                >
                                >
                                > I am sure the meaning here was lost.
                                >
                                > LWB
                                >
                              • tom_c2k6
                                That ain t all you re full of. But speaking of commies and really smart left wingers, are you eager to find out who ll win the Mexican election? Whether Hugo
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 2 11:37 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  That ain't all you're full of. But speaking of commies and
                                  really 'smart' left wingers, are you eager to find out who'll win the
                                  Mexican election? Whether Hugo Chavez's boy, Andres Manuel Lopez
                                  Obrador, takes control or not? Not surprisingly, you show the same
                                  incredible lack of common sense when it comes to general matters as
                                  when you defend the fantasy of a Man-induced climate crisis.

                                  T

                                  --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:

                                  Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people
                                  are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what it
                                  comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your side
                                  is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda. There
                                  you go, I am full of doubt.

                                  S
                                  --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > >The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
                                  > >and the intelligent are full of doubt.
                                  >
                                  > Exactly!
                                  >
                                  > Sal, what's got into you? You are finally beginning to think
                                  > rationally! That's terrific, although, to be honest, I didn't
                                  think
                                  > it was possible! Anyway, keep it up and you'll soon be arguing on
                                  our
                                  > side!
                                  >
                                  > :)Tom
                                  >
                                  > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                                  > intelligent are full of doubt.
                                  >
                                  > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                                  > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                                  > ignorant.)
                                  >
                                  > I'm having an interesting time in the UK. The gov't has issued a
                                  > heat-wave warning, because, in 2003, 2,000 people died here in the
                                  > extreme heat. My parents are feeling the heat quite badly. I am
                                  > fairly comfortable; the day I left Texas my living room was 98
                                  > degrees, because I won't use the AC unless absolutely necessary.
                                  > After a month here it will take a short while to acclimatise back
                                  in
                                  > Dallas. I am again struck by the differences in energy use
                                  between
                                  > here and the US. Although some are embracing the 'clothes dried
                                  by
                                  > hot air, air cooled by cold air' mentality, the vast majority
                                  still
                                  > open windows, and hang their washing out to dry. Lights are
                                  turned
                                  > off when not needed and few people doubt the significance of our
                                  > changing climate. A couple of hundred miles north today, flash
                                  > flooding sent rivers through the streets. We were amazed, yet not
                                  > surprised. This little island, this temperate little land, is
                                  > suffering the worst drought for a hundred years in the south
                                  east.
                                  > When I was a teenager, in the 70's, 80 degrees was declared a heat
                                  > wave. Now, 80 is just warm.
                                  >
                                  > Sal
                                  > -
                                  >
                                • charles goodnight
                                  just to let you know that not all people concerned (and convinced) that global warming is a reality and a serious threat are left wing etc. etc, i am about as
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Jul 3 5:18 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    just to let you know that not all people concerned (and convinced) that global warming is a reality and a serious threat are left wing etc. etc, i am about as conservative as possible and with regard to hugo chavez, hell is where he needs to be and at the lowest depth possible.
                                    charles

                                    tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                                    That ain't all you're full of. But speaking of commies and
                                    really 'smart' left wingers, are you eager to find out who'll win the
                                    Mexican election? Whether Hugo Chavez's boy, Andres Manuel Lopez
                                    Obrador, takes control or not? Not surprisingly, you show the same
                                    incredible lack of common sense when it comes to general matters as
                                    when you defend the fantasy of a Man-induced climate crisis.

                                    T

                                    --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:

                                    Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people
                                    are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what it
                                    comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your side
                                    is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda. There
                                    you go, I am full of doubt.

                                    S
                                    --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, "tom_c2k6" <tom_c2k6@>
                                    wrote:
                                    >
                                    > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                    > >The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
                                    > >and the intelligent are full of doubt.
                                    >
                                    > Exactly!
                                    >
                                    > Sal, what's got into you? You are finally beginning to think
                                    > rationally! That's terrific, although, to be honest, I didn't
                                    think
                                    > it was possible! Anyway, keep it up and you'll soon be arguing on
                                    our
                                    > side!
                                    >
                                    > :)Tom
                                    >
                                    > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the
                                    > intelligent are full of doubt.
                                    >
                                    > Bertrand Russell. (also said "Men are born ignorant, not stupid.
                                    > They are made stupid by education." Of course, some stay
                                    > ignorant.)
                                    >
                                    > I'm having an interesting time in the UK. The gov't has issued a
                                    > heat-wave warning, because, in 2003, 2,000 people died here in the
                                    > extreme heat. My parents are feeling the heat quite badly. I am
                                    > fairly comfortable; the day I left Texas my living room was 98
                                    > degrees, because I won't use the AC unless absolutely necessary.
                                    > After a month here it will take a short while to acclimatise back
                                    in
                                    > Dallas. I am again struck by the differences in energy use
                                    between
                                    > here and the US. Although some are embracing the 'clothes dried
                                    by
                                    > hot air, air cooled by cold air' mentality, the vast majority
                                    still
                                    > open windows, and hang their washing out to dry. Lights are
                                    turned
                                    > off when not needed and few people doubt the significance of our
                                    > changing climate. A couple of hundred miles north today, flash
                                    > flooding sent rivers through the streets. We were amazed, yet not
                                    > surprised. This little island, this temperate little land, is
                                    > suffering the worst drought for a hundred years in the south
                                    east.
                                    > When I was a teenager, in the 70's, 80 degrees was declared a heat
                                    > wave. Now, 80 is just warm.
                                    >
                                    > Sal
                                    > -
                                    >








                                    test'; ">
                                    __________________________________________________
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • tom_c2k6
                                    Hi Charles, When you say you are convinced global warming is a reality, do you mean you believe humans are responsible for a significant portion of it? Because
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Jul 3 6:46 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi Charles,
                                      When you say you are convinced global warming is a reality, do you
                                      mean you believe humans are responsible for a significant portion of
                                      it? Because few people doubt the world is a slight bit warmer now
                                      than it was 100 years ago. Only cooler heads realize the human
                                      component is very likely negligible. In other words, there is no
                                      evidence at all that CO2 from human activity has caused any
                                      significant amount of the ~1 degree rise in temperature over the past
                                      100 years, while this is ample evidence natural factors are in play.

                                      Throughout all meaningful geologic time, the correlation between CO2
                                      concentration and temperature change is ZERO. In fact, during a
                                      period when the CO2 level was at least 10 times higher than what it
                                      is today, the Earth was actually in the midst of an ICE AGE. Much of
                                      the current hysteria is, without a doubt, driven by left wing
                                      politics and an internationalist agenda to set the U.S. back a few
                                      pegs on the geoeconomic ladder. Rapidly emerging China and a
                                      humiliated Russia desperately seeking to make a comeback are the two
                                      players who stand to benefit the most from nonsensical deals such as
                                      Kyoto. China isn't even part of Kyoto.

                                      You're 100% right about that maniac Hugo Chavez, however. He's best
                                      buds with Fidel Castro. He's leading the new socialist/communist
                                      revolution in Latin America. He's now in Africa attempting to unify
                                      nations there against the United States and he's in bed with the
                                      current Iranian regime. He's being supplied with arms by Russia. I'd
                                      say this guy is a serious menace to the free world.

                                      Tom

                                      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, charles goodnight
                                      <goodnightcharles@...> wrote:

                                      just to let you know that not all people concerned (and convinced)
                                      that global warming is a reality and a serious threat are left wing
                                      etc. etc, i am about as conservative as possible and with regard to
                                      hugo chavez, hell is where he needs to be and at the lowest depth
                                      possible.
                                      charles

                                      tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                                      That ain't all you're full of. But speaking of commies and
                                      really 'smart' left wingers, are you eager to find out who'll win the
                                      Mexican election? Whether Hugo Chavez's boy, Andres Manuel Lopez
                                      Obrador, takes control or not? Not surprisingly, you show the same
                                      incredible lack of common sense when it comes to general matters as
                                      when you defend the fantasy of a Man-induced climate crisis.

                                      T

                                      --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:

                                      Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people
                                      are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what it
                                      comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your side
                                      is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda. There
                                      you go, I am full of doubt.

                                      S
                                    • pawnfart
                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capdis.html#c2 Yesterday we had a 64k event when the WGOM blob
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Jul 3 7:05 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitance

                                        http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capdis.html#c2

                                        Yesterday we had a 64k event when the WGOM blob
                                        essentially 'landfell'. There was complex activity in the WGOM,
                                        however some of what occurred can be described mathematically in
                                        basic terms of a discharging and charging of a capaciter. Of course
                                        there was the entity in the GOM and then the heating and cooling of
                                        the day that makes up thunderstorms. But certainly even though it
                                        does indeed heat up and cool to provide a mechanism for thunderstorm
                                        activity, it clearly isn't every day that there is a 64k strike
                                        event, either. So you have a lot of humid air and couplings in the
                                        Pacific, with a Pacific high, in the EGOM, and in the Atlantic.
                                        There was also a real significant coupling north of a very active
                                        EPAC ITCZ, where between convection and mountains a very straight
                                        line of fair weather existed. Water vapor there is at high levels,
                                        but the air despite being warm and moist cannot possibly convect due
                                        to the extreme coupling occurring between ocean and ionosphere, and
                                        this causes the air to subsist. The subsisting air also helps draw
                                        cold air from the Mexican mountains and from the convection to its
                                        south. That then presents both a front and moist air to the ITCZ.
                                        Some just call this a monsoonal feature, but the don't know exactly
                                        what it is that they are calling.

                                        Anyway, the organization essentially ran to land from the WGOM and
                                        you had because of the changing couplings in the GOM, math very much
                                        like a capacitive relationship where the 'C' goes to zero. What does
                                        that mean mathematically? It means that voltages go way up, and
                                        those voltages are what is required for the displacement current to
                                        short to ground from the conductive ionosphere to the ground through
                                        the highly insulative atmosphere. Now, once this displacement
                                        current indeed moved from ionosphere to ground, it set up for
                                        charging of capacitive couplings--just in other places. Yesterday,
                                        the bulk of that current went to the ITCZ, IMHO. See real time for
                                        yourself:

                                        http://www.weather.unisys.com/hurricane/sat_ir_p.gif

                                        http://www.weather.unisys.com/hurricane/sat_ir_p.gif


                                        C = å0 * år * A / d

                                        C is the capacitance in farads, F
                                        å0 is the permittivity of free space, measured in farads per meter
                                        år is the dielectric constant or relative permittivity of the
                                        insulator used
                                        A is the area of each plane electrode, measured in square metres
                                        d is the separation between the electrodes, measured in metres

                                        From this equation, keep in mind that the distance between charge
                                        ionosphere acting as a virtual plate, held by the water content of
                                        the air and the dielectrical values water has over air, comes into
                                        play. That is in part for instance as the clouds go over land and
                                        land is 5,000 times more resistive than the salty GOM, d gets large
                                        and therefore C runs to zero.

                                        Of course, this is a global phenomenon and the MJO set up where it
                                        is:

                                        http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/global_precip/gif/am_ir_monthly
                                        _1.gif

                                        between dry air and wet helps to set up these extreme movements of
                                        water close by which helps explain the extreme movements of the 'C'
                                        and hence the extreme lightning strike numbers.

                                        BTW, the flooding in the NE is better explained by the greater open
                                        Arctic and a bloom off the UK that presents a larger coupling high
                                        pressure area in the Atlantic such that there is a greater gradiant
                                        for rain to the NE as well as greater available displacement
                                        currents. This can be shown essentially from the same math above--
                                        just think larger C as the ocean part of the capacitive 'plate'
                                        becomes larger and more conductive.
                                      • charles goodnight
                                        hello. i do think that human activity is playing a significant part in global warming...i also think that there is a historical correlation between co2 and
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Jul 3 7:19 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          hello. i do think that human activity is playing a significant part in global warming...i also think that there is a historical correlation between co2 and global warming and i don´t think it is a leftist/russian or whatever plot. of course, time will tell. i suggest that we leave it at that because i have read previous posts of yours and it appears your position (and mine for that matter) are irreconcilable. re: chavez, the rest of the world really doesn´t know what that bastard is up to...he has contracted with the iranians to build a tractor factory (iranian tractors???) that just by mere conincidence is going to be built on the richest deposit of uranium in venezuela, he is trying to buy a nuclear reactor from argentina and he has made overtures to brazil for nuclear technology..he has bought 100,000 ak-47 from russia when the venezuelan army is only 85,000 men (btw the bullet used by the colombian guerrilla -with whom he has close ties- is the same as the ak-47 while
                                          the standard issue rifle for the vene army is the nato 7.62) and plans to buy 800k more of them to arm his territorial guard plus he wants to buy 25 sukhoi-30 fighter bombers from russia etc. etc. his latest foray into international politics is a planned visit to north korea..the list goes on and on..chavez has public pretentions of being a threat to the us but in reality wants to replicate a castro/cuba like state with him in absolute control..flags have already appeared with combined venezuelan and cuban emblems..i am trying to sell my company because this is obviously heading toward a communist shithouse state.
                                          charles

                                          tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                                          Hi Charles,
                                          When you say you are convinced global warming is a reality, do you
                                          mean you believe humans are responsible for a significant portion of
                                          it? Because few people doubt the world is a slight bit warmer now
                                          than it was 100 years ago. Only cooler heads realize the human
                                          component is very likely negligible. In other words, there is no
                                          evidence at all that CO2 from human activity has caused any
                                          significant amount of the ~1 degree rise in temperature over the past
                                          100 years, while this is ample evidence natural factors are in play.

                                          Throughout all meaningful geologic time, the correlation between CO2
                                          concentration and temperature change is ZERO. In fact, during a
                                          period when the CO2 level was at least 10 times higher than what it
                                          is today, the Earth was actually in the midst of an ICE AGE. Much of
                                          the current hysteria is, without a doubt, driven by left wing
                                          politics and an internationalist agenda to set the U.S. back a few
                                          pegs on the geoeconomic ladder. Rapidly emerging China and a
                                          humiliated Russia desperately seeking to make a comeback are the two
                                          players who stand to benefit the most from nonsensical deals such as
                                          Kyoto. China isn't even part of Kyoto.

                                          You're 100% right about that maniac Hugo Chavez, however. He's best
                                          buds with Fidel Castro. He's leading the new socialist/communist
                                          revolution in Latin America. He's now in Africa attempting to unify
                                          nations there against the United States and he's in bed with the
                                          current Iranian regime. He's being supplied with arms by Russia. I'd
                                          say this guy is a serious menace to the free world.

                                          Tom

                                          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, charles goodnight
                                          <goodnightcharles@...> wrote:

                                          just to let you know that not all people concerned (and convinced)
                                          that global warming is a reality and a serious threat are left wing
                                          etc. etc, i am about as conservative as possible and with regard to
                                          hugo chavez, hell is where he needs to be and at the lowest depth
                                          possible.
                                          charles

                                          tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                                          That ain't all you're full of. But speaking of commies and
                                          really 'smart' left wingers, are you eager to find out who'll win the
                                          Mexican election? Whether Hugo Chavez's boy, Andres Manuel Lopez
                                          Obrador, takes control or not? Not surprisingly, you show the same
                                          incredible lack of common sense when it comes to general matters as
                                          when you defend the fantasy of a Man-induced climate crisis.

                                          T

                                          --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:

                                          Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning people
                                          are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what it
                                          comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your side
                                          is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda. There
                                          you go, I am full of doubt.

                                          S








                                          test'; ">

                                          ---------------------------------
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                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • lasallia
                                          ... Mike, could you tell me about the bloom. Plankton? Or not? Sal
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jul 3 7:25 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            >
                                            > BTW, the flooding in the NE is better explained by the greater open
                                            > Arctic and a bloom off the UK that presents a larger coupling high
                                            > pressure area in the Atlantic such that there is a greater gradiant
                                            > for rain to the NE as well as greater available displacement
                                            > currents. This can be shown essentially from the same math above--
                                            > just think larger C as the ocean part of the capacitive 'plate'
                                            > becomes larger and more conductive.
                                            >

                                            Mike, could you tell me about the 'bloom.' Plankton? Or not?

                                            Sal
                                          • lasallia
                                            Charles, may I email you about an off-topic matter? Sal In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, charles goodnight ... part in global warming...i also think that
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Jul 3 7:37 AM
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                                              Charles, may I email you about an off-topic matter?

                                              Sal



                                              In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, charles goodnight
                                              <goodnightcharles@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > hello. i do think that human activity is playing a significant
                                              part in global warming...i also think that there is a historical
                                              correlation between co2 and global warming and i don´t think it is a
                                              leftist/russian or whatever plot. of course, time will tell. i
                                              suggest that we leave it at that because i have read previous posts
                                              of yours and it appears your position (and mine for that matter) are
                                              irreconcilable. re: chavez, the rest of the world really doesn´t
                                              know what that bastard is up to...he has contracted with the
                                              iranians to build a tractor factory (iranian tractors???) that just
                                              by mere conincidence is going to be built on the richest deposit of
                                              uranium in venezuela, he is trying to buy a nuclear reactor from
                                              argentina and he has made overtures to brazil for nuclear
                                              technology..he has bought 100,000 ak-47 from russia when the
                                              venezuelan army is only 85,000 men (btw the bullet used by the
                                              colombian guerrilla -with whom he has close ties- is the same as the
                                              ak-47 while
                                              > the standard issue rifle for the vene army is the nato 7.62) and
                                              plans to buy 800k more of them to arm his territorial guard plus he
                                              wants to buy 25 sukhoi-30 fighter bombers from russia etc. etc. his
                                              latest foray into international politics is a planned visit to north
                                              korea..the list goes on and on..chavez has public pretentions of
                                              being a threat to the us but in reality wants to replicate a
                                              castro/cuba like state with him in absolute control..flags have
                                              already appeared with combined venezuelan and cuban emblems..i am
                                              trying to sell my company because this is obviously heading toward
                                              a communist shithouse state.
                                              > charles
                                              >
                                              > tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@...> wrote:
                                              > Hi Charles,
                                              > When you say you are convinced global warming is a reality, do you
                                              > mean you believe humans are responsible for a significant portion
                                              of
                                              > it? Because few people doubt the world is a slight bit warmer now
                                              > than it was 100 years ago. Only cooler heads realize the human
                                              > component is very likely negligible. In other words, there is no
                                              > evidence at all that CO2 from human activity has caused any
                                              > significant amount of the ~1 degree rise in temperature over the
                                              past
                                              > 100 years, while this is ample evidence natural factors are in
                                              play.
                                              >
                                              > Throughout all meaningful geologic time, the correlation between
                                              CO2
                                              > concentration and temperature change is ZERO. In fact, during a
                                              > period when the CO2 level was at least 10 times higher than what
                                              it
                                              > is today, the Earth was actually in the midst of an ICE AGE. Much
                                              of
                                              > the current hysteria is, without a doubt, driven by left wing
                                              > politics and an internationalist agenda to set the U.S. back a few
                                              > pegs on the geoeconomic ladder. Rapidly emerging China and a
                                              > humiliated Russia desperately seeking to make a comeback are the
                                              two
                                              > players who stand to benefit the most from nonsensical deals such
                                              as
                                              > Kyoto. China isn't even part of Kyoto.
                                              >
                                              > You're 100% right about that maniac Hugo Chavez, however. He's
                                              best
                                              > buds with Fidel Castro. He's leading the new socialist/communist
                                              > revolution in Latin America. He's now in Africa attempting to
                                              unify
                                              > nations there against the United States and he's in bed with the
                                              > current Iranian regime. He's being supplied with arms by Russia.
                                              I'd
                                              > say this guy is a serious menace to the free world.
                                              >
                                              > Tom
                                              >
                                              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, charles goodnight
                                              > <goodnightcharles@> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > just to let you know that not all people concerned (and convinced)
                                              > that global warming is a reality and a serious threat are left
                                              wing
                                              > etc. etc, i am about as conservative as possible and with regard
                                              to
                                              > hugo chavez, hell is where he needs to be and at the lowest depth
                                              > possible.
                                              > charles
                                              >
                                              > tom_c2k6 <tom_c2k6@> wrote:
                                              > That ain't all you're full of. But speaking of commies and
                                              > really 'smart' left wingers, are you eager to find out who'll win
                                              the
                                              > Mexican election? Whether Hugo Chavez's boy, Andres Manuel Lopez
                                              > Obrador, takes control or not? Not surprisingly, you show the same
                                              > incredible lack of common sense when it comes to general matters
                                              as
                                              > when you defend the fantasy of a Man-induced climate crisis.
                                              >
                                              > T
                                              >
                                              > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Well Tom, I think I am arguing on your side ... left leaning
                                              people
                                              > are far more intelligent than right-wing people. Isn't that what
                                              it
                                              > comes down to? Other than that, I'm not sure exactly what your
                                              side
                                              > is, apart from paranoid 'the commies will get us' propaganda.
                                              There
                                              > you go, I am full of doubt.
                                              >
                                              > S
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > test'; ">
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
                                              > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • pawnfart
                                              http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.php3 ?img_id=13623 Keep in mind that the high pressure has on the left the flooding in the
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jul 3 7:38 AM
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                                                http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.php3
                                                ?img_id=13623

                                                Keep in mind that the high pressure has on the left the flooding in
                                                the NE and on the right the bloom off the UK. That HP area is fair
                                                weather positive voltages to ground--directly teleconnected to the
                                                bloom from an EMF standpoint.

                                                --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > BTW, the flooding in the NE is better explained by the greater
                                                open
                                                > > Arctic and a bloom off the UK that presents a larger coupling high
                                                > > pressure area in the Atlantic such that there is a greater
                                                gradiant
                                                > > for rain to the NE as well as greater available displacement
                                                > > currents. This can be shown essentially from the same math above--
                                                > > just think larger C as the ocean part of the capacitive 'plate'
                                                > > becomes larger and more conductive.
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                > Mike, could you tell me about the 'bloom.' Plankton? Or not?
                                                >
                                                > Sal
                                                >
                                              • lasallia
                                                ... http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.ph p3?img_id=13623 ... in the NE and on the right the bloom off the UK. That HP area is
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Jul 3 7:55 AM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, pawnfart <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.ph
                                                  p3?img_id=13623
                                                  >
                                                  > Keep in mind that the high pressure has on the left the flooding
                                                  in the NE and on the right the bloom off the UK. That HP area is
                                                  fair weather positive voltages to ground--directly teleconnected to
                                                  the bloom from an EMF standpoint.>>>

                                                  Ok, now we normally have the Azores high and the Icelandic low
                                                  fighting it out in the Atlantic so I have some questions, which may
                                                  or may not be foolish.

                                                  How does this work with the NAO?
                                                  Does the plankton interact because of the emitted gases, or
                                                  something else?
                                                  What effects will acidification of the oceans have, if any?

                                                  Thank you, Sal
                                                  PS. Please keep it simple.



                                                  >
                                                  > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > BTW, the flooding in the NE is better explained by the greater
                                                  > open
                                                  > > > Arctic and a bloom off the UK that presents a larger coupling
                                                  high
                                                  > > > pressure area in the Atlantic such that there is a greater
                                                  > gradiant
                                                  > > > for rain to the NE as well as greater available displacement
                                                  > > > currents. This can be shown essentially from the same math
                                                  above--
                                                  > > > just think larger C as the ocean part of the
                                                  capacitive 'plate'
                                                  > > > becomes larger and more conductive.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Mike, could you tell me about the 'bloom.' Plankton? Or not?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Sal
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • pawnfart
                                                  Good point, Sal. The NAO means that the Atlantic is in a warm phase. I would add relatively salty to that description as well. Anyway, the warmer oceans are
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Jul 3 8:24 AM
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                                                    Good point, Sal.

                                                    The NAO means that the Atlantic is in a warm phase. I would add
                                                    relatively salty to that description as well. Anyway, the warmer
                                                    oceans are the more conductive they become. For each degF there is
                                                    a one percent increase in conductivity. However, you have to keep
                                                    in mind there is also a conductivity meaning to CO2 as well, when it
                                                    comes out of solution with surface lows. So, and I know you want me
                                                    to keep it simple, but when the oceans heat up enough, the regional
                                                    warming also results not just in ice on the land melting but ice
                                                    underneath the oceans in the form of METHANE HYDRATES. When melted,
                                                    they release methane and THEN the biosphere consumes them and
                                                    produces CO2--which rises to the surface and helps increase these
                                                    decarbonation events--as we have seen last year with the active
                                                    Atlantic hurricane season and the decadal active phase we are in in
                                                    the Atlantic. In a nutshell, the Atlantic is more CONDUCTIVE. But
                                                    eventually the hydrates melt off and the cycle moves to the Pacific -
                                                    - Typhoon Tip, the biggest storm ever, occurred when the NAO went
                                                    negative and the Pacific was warmer, for instance.

                                                    The danger from added CO2,IMHO, is that this cycle becomes even more
                                                    hyper and specifically the Arctic opens up and then its a whole new
                                                    ball game, including the extreme risk of neo glacial storms caused
                                                    by precip in the Arctic where normally it is like a desert--it does
                                                    not snow. We started to see hints of that this winter with the cold
                                                    snap in Eurasia associated with the high pressure system that formed
                                                    exactly over the places where the anomaly warming and melting of sea
                                                    ice is occurring in the Arctic. As I was monitoring it this winter,
                                                    specific cold waves to Eurasia corresponded to larger strike events
                                                    about 48 hours before in the CONUS . . .


                                                    Blooms work from an EMF standpoint by containing conductive
                                                    chemistries as well as containing regionally carbonation over
                                                    diffusion if and when surface lows come by. But for purposes of
                                                    high pressure increases, it's mainly about the oceans becoming more
                                                    conductive in a large scale manner due to the contained, conductive
                                                    chemistries over diffusion of those same chemistries. Consider, for
                                                    instance, that these blooms contain chemstries of ions required to
                                                    maintain ossimotic pressures . ..

                                                    --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, pawnfart <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/natural_hazards_v2.ph
                                                    > p3?img_id=13623
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Keep in mind that the high pressure has on the left the flooding
                                                    > in the NE and on the right the bloom off the UK. That HP area is
                                                    > fair weather positive voltages to ground--directly teleconnected
                                                    to
                                                    > the bloom from an EMF standpoint.>>>
                                                    >
                                                    > Ok, now we normally have the Azores high and the Icelandic low
                                                    > fighting it out in the Atlantic so I have some questions, which
                                                    may
                                                    > or may not be foolish.
                                                    >
                                                    > How does this work with the NAO?
                                                    > Does the plankton interact because of the emitted gases, or
                                                    > something else?
                                                    > What effects will acidification of the oceans have, if any?
                                                    >
                                                    > Thank you, Sal
                                                    > PS. Please keep it simple.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    > > --- In globalwarming@yahoogroups.com, lasallia <no_reply@> wrote:
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > BTW, the flooding in the NE is better explained by the
                                                    greater
                                                    > > open
                                                    > > > > Arctic and a bloom off the UK that presents a larger
                                                    coupling
                                                    > high
                                                    > > > > pressure area in the Atlantic such that there is a greater
                                                    > > gradiant
                                                    > > > > for rain to the NE as well as greater available displacement
                                                    > > > > currents. This can be shown essentially from the same math
                                                    > above--
                                                    > > > > just think larger C as the ocean part of the
                                                    > capacitive 'plate'
                                                    > > > > becomes larger and more conductive.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Mike, could you tell me about the 'bloom.' Plankton? Or not?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Sal
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
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