Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Becoming Free from Karma Bondage - Actions, Impressions, Doership, Enjoyership

Expand Messages
  • sadhak_insight
    Dear Sadhakas, Namaste! As pointed out by Moderatorji in the Transition from Read-Learned Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge-Realization , Karmas can be
    Message 1 of 3 , Feb 5, 2009
      Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
      As pointed out by Moderatorji in the "Transition from Read-Learned
      Knowledge to Experiential Knowledge-Realization" , Karmas can be
      taken as separate topic by itself, so I would share my understanding
      to start with and invite comments.

      As Bhagwan says in Gita, Gahana karmanau gatih!(Pardon my sanskrit).
      Intricate are the ways of Karmas.
      Gita also teaches that "I" am not body-mind based limited individual
      I think, believe and act (as if I am body-mind). I am without any
      limitations is the main theme of Gita. (Swamiji says Paramatman is
      already attained/realized). In I am, "am" is sat, and "I" is Chit-

      This body identification is clearly ignorance, and thus my being
      individual is also ignorance. An individual also thinks he/she is
      the doer of all karmas performed, and therefore he/she becomes
      bhokta (enjoyer) of fruits of actions leading him/her to swing
      between pairs of opposites such as pains and pleasures throughout
      the life.

      Actions originate from conditioning/sanskaras which he inherited
      from the environment around him/her while growing up. Because
      actions are done through the body-mind that he considers his
      (ignorance), these actions become his, not otherwise in themselves,
      actions are impersonal, and choice is dictated by conditioning

      Mind is conditioned and doesn't even know it is! The environment is
      mass karmas or impressions on human consciousness from the beginning
      of the creation. These impressions are like a pool or stream of
      karmas, good and bad sanskaras due to thoughts and deeds of people
      like Gandhi, Hitler, mother Teresa, leaders of our times, wars, and
      so on. Actually these karmas/conditioning manifesting through
      individuals in different times, and places. It is as if these karmas
      are recycled/reincarnated through different bodies, and minds until
      some minds realize their essential nature is Atman, Pure Existence-
      Consciousness, Impersonal, Divine. Karmas cannot touch such Atman,
      as It is experiential realization.
      It is said that Karmas,as though, get burnt upon realization, as
      they were all committed in ignorance of SELF. Memory returns to such
      a one that one is ever Atman-self. Gita Ch 18: Nashto moha,
      So in an impersonal way the reincarnation of
      conditioning/karmas/mind/soul continues across all generations and
      in all places, via the births and deaths of bodies made up of
      integration of five great elements, carrying causal bodies of such
      Thus it is seen that individual is illusion and as such individual
      doer and hence karmas are also equally illusion in the wake of Self-
      In shankara's Aparokshanubhuti, verses 90 onward emphasize this
      point negating even the prarabdha karmas for an individual which
      happen to bodies and not to Realized One.
      So it is more important to be free of such ignorance living in us as
      individual Karta-doer and karmas will lose their credence. Then
      Everything unfolds as it should by God, for God, to God!
      Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt

      Dear Sadhak

      Regarding our actions very human being is judged by the law of
      Karma.If we surrender to Lord Krishna still however we have to get
      results as per of Karmas( actions )

      Truly yours

      S S Bhatt

      Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
      Based on Sathyanaranaji's comments, I would like to re-emphasize the
      point made here.
      On the path of inquiry/knowledge, one doesn't have to do anything,
      because if "doing" such as giving up attachment involves "a doer"
      then it is not going to give up attachment to "I", "me" and "mine".
      In fact one has to understand deeply that sense of "I" or "me"
      cannot free itself from attachment, because "attachment" is the
      nature of "I". Why? because "I" is so inadequate, insufficient in
      itself due to perceived isolation from Totality, Godhood, so it will
      attract or repel to complete itself, unfortunately through objects.
      See the fact of our experience, when there is attachment for
      a "thing" or person is happening in the moments, there are only
      feelings-thoughts(of attachment) breeding in our consciousness
      (awareness), there is no "me" or I in our experience, but we take
      ourselves to be "I/me" as if it is permanently there. This creates
      duality of "me" and "expectations from "thing" or person in moments,
      all only in our mind(in consciousness, really). Both are in the same
      mind, artificially divided as two creating the trouble for us.
      Experientially There is ONLY "ONE CONSCIOUSNESS" appearing as
      two "me", the body identified person, and attachment for "other".
      Both are perceived objects of Consciousness we are!
      Can one just see this, just be there without doing anything, just
      witness as it unfolds?
      If one can, attachment withers away!
      "No such "I/me" exists in our experience, is crucial breakthrough
      and a giant leap toward giving up attachment and hosts of other
      problems that go with it, naturally.
      That which doesn't exist, how can one be attached to it, or get rid
      So no "I" or "me", therefore "mine" goes out the door.
      Then, no "doer either".
      Then only Karmas as needed/guided by this understanding, but no "my
      Karmas" or "my fruits". All is God's prasadam.
      Then no bondage either.
      The root of all attachment is "me" so just tackle that with this
      Lord Krishna says this in Gita but it may not be coming out that way
      until or unless one takes all chapters of Gita to bear upon our
      understanding. One cannot take one verse at a time in isolation and
      interpret it to derive any meaningful implementaion in our life.
      This is my respectful and humble seeing, dear Sadhakas!

      Pratap Bhatt

      - Intricate are the ways of Karmas
      - Individual due to body-mind association, thinks he is doer and
      enjoyer, purely out of ignorance
      - Karmas cannot touch such Atman
      - Actions are impersonal
      - On knowledge of true nature (Self, Atma) memory returns, all
      attachments vanish. (Nashtomoha smrittirlabdhvaa)
      - Let us be free from ignorance for it is by God, for God, to God.

      1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
      2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..
      3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the
      extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
      4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.
      5. Focus on subject at hand only.
      6. Do not include links to the other sites.
      7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).
      8. Do not personalize message
      9. All responses may not be posted.
      10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.
      11. Take into consideration the novices, youth, westerners, non-
      sectarian audience. i.e. limit the use to Sanskrit words only.
      Provide English word bracketed.

      Ram Ram
      ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------

      Post message: gita-talk@yahoogroups.com
      Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.