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Going for Moxana points

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  • lkseitz
    This concerns the latest comic, so spoilers ho! ************** I ve seen it conjectured in the past that the Enigma is Agatha herself. So the page being older
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 17, 2015 
      This concerns the latest comic, so spoilers ho!

**************

I've seen it conjectured in the past that the Enigma is Agatha herself. So the page being older than Van Rijn's notes may mean she went back in time to plant the notes in the book to nudge herself toward the event where she appears to herself at the beginning of the story. Because what's time travel without a good causality paradox?
    • jbmallus
      Or ten causality paradoxes. They spread like witchfire.
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 18, 2015
        Or ten causality paradoxes.  They spread like witchfire.
      • lady_aylinn
        I don t think it s Agatha. I think it s Lunevka. (a Van Rijn Muse not built by Van Rijn...) _I_ think the window scene is her bitching out her daughter
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 18, 2015
          I don't think it's Agatha.
          I think it's Lunevka. (a Van Rijn Muse not built by Van Rijn...)
          _I_ think the window scene is her "bitching out" her daughter
          because of something that Agatha would do or else she would be left ...."like This?"
          (time window opens & we see Agatha's younger self)
          or perhaps a devil's bargain "would you rather have been left (window) 'Like This'?"
           
        • Erika Westberg
          If it was only this one, yes, but why would Lunevka help Molok find his friends? A window Bang reports of. Den 18 sep 2015 16:57 skrev lady_aylinn@yahoo.com
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 18, 2015

            If it was only this one, yes, but why would Lunevka help Molok find his friends? A window Bang reports of.

            Den 18 sep 2015 16:57 skrev "lady_aylinn@... [girlgenius]" <girlgenius@yahoogroups.com>:
             

            I don't think it's Agatha.
            I think it's Lunevka. (a Van Rijn Muse not built by Van Rijn...)
            _I_ think the window scene is her "bitching out" her daughter
            because of something that Agatha would do or else she would be left ...."like This?"
            (time window opens & we see Agatha's younger self)
            or perhaps a devil's bargain "would you rather have been left (window) 'Like This'?"
             

          • Joshua Kronengold
            ... Lunveka wasn t in the Von Zinzer Brothers time window scene -- just Agatha, Gil, and Moloch. (and a Geister). I am entirely unimpressed by the Muse of
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 18, 2015
              On 09/18/2015 11:06 AM, Erika Westberg erika.westberg@... [girlgenius] wrote:
              > If it was only this one, yes, but why would Lunevka help Molok find his
              > friends? A window Bang reports of.

              Lunveka wasn't in the Von Zinzer Brothers time window scene -- just Agatha,
              Gil, and Moloch. (and a Geister).

              I am entirely unimpressed by the Muse of Time = Lunveka theory; I don't see any
              reason to believe it at the moment. But there's also no reason other than the
              time engine (which could be the same time engine, but with Enigma out of the
              picture temporarily) that they're the same person.

              The thing that connects them, of course, is the presence of the Gesiter. Gill
              pretending to be a Revenant with a Geister present implies that Agatha is
              pretending to be Lucrezia. And, of course, we know or suspect that Lucrezia
              had a time engine, since her appearance with the Geisters seemed to be
              time-based; the whole "brief appearances, always looks the same, over
              centuries/millennia" thing feels like a time manipulation stunt.

              > Den 18 sep 2015 16:57 skrev "lady_aylinn@...
              > <mailto:lady_aylinn@...> [girlgenius]" <girlgenius@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:girlgenius@yahoogroups.com>>:
              >
              > __
              >
              > I don't think it's Agatha.
              > I think it's Lunevka. (a Van Rijn Muse not built by Van Rijn...)
              > _I_ think the window scene is her "bitching out" her daughter
              > because of something that Agatha would do or else she would be left
              > ...."like This?"
              > (time window opens & we see Agatha's younger self)
              > or perhaps a devil's bargain "would you rather have been left (window)
              > 'Like This'?"
              >
              >


              --
              Joshua Kronengold (mneme@...) "Release the |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
              --^-- ... patents...and drop everything into the public /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
              /\\ domain. OPEN SOURCE." "It's so scary when you say |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
              /-\\\it like that" -- Howard Tayler (Schlock Mercenary) '---''(_/--' (_/-'
            • David Goldfarb
              On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Joshua Kronengold mneme@labcats.org ... Gil is there, but why do you say he was pretending to be a revenant? He didn t seem
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 19, 2015
                On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Joshua Kronengold mneme@...
                [girlgenius] <girlgenius@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                >Gil
                > pretending to be a Revenant with a Geister present implies that Agatha is
                > pretending to be Lucrezia.

                Gil is there, but why do you say he was pretending to be a revenant?
                He didn't seem to be acting all that revenant-y. I took the
                "'Mistress'" as being sarcasm. (I've always assumed that some mishap
                occurred with his clothing, and a Geisterdamen uniform was the only
                replacement available.) And Agatha needn't have been pretending to be
                Lucrezia; instead, the Geisterdamen, or at least a faction of them,
                could break away from Lucrezia and follow her instead.

                David Goldfarb
              • Joshua Kronengold
                On 9/19/2015 12:55 PM, David Goldfarb goldfarbdj@gmail.com [girlgenius] ... That s one interpretation, but I m not very convinced. That s a long chain of
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 19, 2015
                  On 9/19/2015 12:55 PM, David Goldfarb goldfarbdj@... [girlgenius]
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Joshua Kronengold mneme@...
                  > [girlgenius] <girlgenius@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                  > > Gil pretending to be a Revenant with a Geister present implies that
                  > Agatha is
                  > > pretending to be Lucrezia.
                  >
                  > Gil is there, but why do you say he was pretending to be a revenant?
                  > He didn't seem to be acting all that revenant-y. I took the
                  > "'Mistress'" as being sarcasm. (I've always assumed that some mishap
                  > occurred with his clothing, and a Geisterdamen uniform was the only
                  > replacement available.)
                  >
                  That's one interpretation, but I'm not very convinced. That's a long
                  chain of coincidences, compared to:

                  Agatha took on a "Lu" guise, and Gil and Moloch pretended to be her
                  minions (not a big stretch).
                  Gil's acting isn't that great (but it doesn't matter, because Geisters
                  aren't very good at human affect), and he's too busy seeing the humor
                  inherent in the situation while not entirely breaking character.

                  > And Agatha needn't have been pretending to be
                  > Lucrezia; instead, the Geisterdamen, or at least a faction of them,
                  > could break away from Lucrezia and follow her instead.
                  >
                  Again, it's possible but doesn't fit anything we've heard of them except
                  the evidence of a "traitor" geister.
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