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Newbie Questions - From the begining

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  • Reilynn
    I have it on good authority that you don t mind re-hashing the old stuff. I am going to skip some things that I am pretty sure just haven t been revealed yet.
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 12, 2012
      I have it on good authority that you don't mind re-hashing the old stuff.

      I am going to skip some things that I am pretty sure just haven't been revealed yet. Like who is the woman in the first time portal? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021111

      What is up the America's?
      http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021125
      "Attempt to reach the America's?" With this level of technology, you would think it would be easy. (Why doesn't anyone have a phone?)

      Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021122

      Thank you all!
    • Donald Brown
      ... Still a mystery to be revealed, but my guess is that it s Lucrezia, original Lucrezia, fiddling with time and dimensional portals. ... There are many
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 12, 2012
        On 6/12/12 8:08 PM, Reilynn wrote:
        > I have it on good authority that you don't mind re-hashing the old stuff.
        >
        > I am going to skip some things that I am pretty sure just haven't been revealed yet. Like who is the woman in the first time portal? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021111
        Still a mystery to be revealed, but my guess is that it's Lucrezia,
        original Lucrezia, fiddling with time and dimensional portals.

        >
        > What is up the America's?
        > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021125
        > "Attempt to reach the America's?" With this level of technology, you would think it would be easy. (Why doesn't anyone have a phone?)
        There are many advanced forms of tech, but they follow patterns. We've
        seen airships, but not a lot of water ships, and only Gil seems to have
        built an airplane. We haven't seen many "normal" bits of tech like
        refrigerators and non-fire stoves. Most development has been mechanical,
        clockworks, plus some biologically fiddling. The sort of electrical
        development that leads to things like radios and phones isn't in wide use.

        And remember, most of the big tech is mad scientists, who aren't known
        for their practicality. So a spark gets the idea to make a refrigerator.
        From what we've seen of those in the madness place, they start thinking
        about what it takes to freeze the world, or how it also needs to have
        big arms and legs to go out and get what want to put into it...

        And one more possibility - when the Europeans started going to the
        Americas, their technological was sufficiently advanced over the natives
        that the Europeans could pretty much do whatever they wanted (which for
        the most part was "take it all"). If the Spark is not a wholly European
        attribute, European explorers may have found technologically advanced
        Native Americas waiting, with much shorter supply lines for their
        madboys. Which means the trick wasn't getting to the Americas, but
        getting back.
        >
        > Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021122

        If Omar was a reverent, he'd have given back the locket when ordered.

        The locket was designed to suppress types of brain functions,
        apparently. Agatha had a very strong brain, trying to break out, so the
        locket was adjusted accordingly. Omar's brain was far weaker, so the
        suppression that merely held back Agatha killed him.
      • ravyng
        ... I ve been wondering about that. Is there *any* sort of near-instantaneous long distance communication? The one thing that made me wonder is this:
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 12, 2012
          --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:

          > > What is up the America's?
          > > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021125
          > > "Attempt to reach the America's?" With this level of technology, you would think it would be easy. (Why doesn't anyone have a phone?)
          > There are many advanced forms of tech, but they follow patterns. We've
          > seen airships, but not a lot of water ships, and only Gil seems to have
          > built an airplane. We haven't seen many "normal" bits of tech like
          > refrigerators and non-fire stoves. Most development has been mechanical,
          > clockworks, plus some biologically fiddling. The sort of electrical
          > development that leads to things like radios and phones isn't in wide use.

          I've been wondering about that. Is there *any* sort of near-instantaneous long distance communication? The one thing that made me wonder is this:

          http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20110928

          To me, it seems like the clank, or whatever whe should call it, is remote controlled, and not that it has its own intelligence. The operator seems to be surprised that he can see (telepresence), and is struggling with operating it while simultaneously looking for a prepared speech. In that case, there is some form of radio there.

          > > Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021122
          >
          > If Omar was a reverent, he'd have given back the locket when ordered.

          I think the word is "revenant." Anyway, she didn't order him. All she said was "My locket! Help! Thief!" No specific order in there, except maybe "Help" which was only directed to any passerby who might hear her, not to Omar. I think the theory still is viable.

          Yngvar
        • Donald Brown
          ... This may be a bit of sparks can invent whatever they need to and a bit of if it s funny, that justifies it . But the Baron s Empire relies on semaphores
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 12, 2012
            On 6/12/12 10:58 PM, ravyng wrote:
            >
            > --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown<gadgetdon@...> wrote:
            >
            >>> What is up the America's?
            >>> http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021125
            >>> "Attempt to reach the America's?" With this level of technology, you would think it would be easy. (Why doesn't anyone have a phone?)
            >> There are many advanced forms of tech, but they follow patterns. We've
            >> seen airships, but not a lot of water ships, and only Gil seems to have
            >> built an airplane. We haven't seen many "normal" bits of tech like
            >> refrigerators and non-fire stoves. Most development has been mechanical,
            >> clockworks, plus some biologically fiddling. The sort of electrical
            >> development that leads to things like radios and phones isn't in wide use.
            > I've been wondering about that. Is there *any* sort of near-instantaneous long distance communication? The one thing that made me wonder is this:
            >
            > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20110928
            >
            > To me, it seems like the clank, or whatever whe should call it, is remote controlled, and not that it has its own intelligence. The operator seems to be surprised that he can see (telepresence), and is struggling with operating it while simultaneously looking for a prepared speech. In that case, there is some form of radio there.
            This may be a bit of "sparks can invent whatever they need to" and a bit
            of "if it's funny, that justifies it". But the Baron's Empire relies on
            semaphores and messengers for communication, and if there was a
            developing system of radio communication, you'd think the Baron would
            have it.

            >>> Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021122
            >> If Omar was a reverent, he'd have given back the locket when ordered.
            > I think the word is "revenant." Anyway, she didn't order him. All she said was "My locket! Help! Thief!" No specific order in there, except maybe "Help" which was only directed to any passerby who might hear her, not to Omar. I think the theory still is viable.
            Ah, my error, the novel has her shouting "Bring back my locket". She
            does say "Wha--NO!" as Omar is grabbing it, which might work.

            But when Agatha is ranting, she is describing what she wants to see. She
            also is wishing death on both Moloch and Omar, and it seems unlikely
            that only one would be a revenant (yes, I think that's the right name).
            Only the guy holding the locket died, so seems reasonable the locket was
            the cause.
          • tiepilot.geo
            ... This is one of those asked and answered by the Professors things--there obviously HAS been contact with the Americas and sufficient trade that new-world
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
              --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > >
              > > What is up the America's?

              > And remember, most of the big tech is mad scientists, who aren't known
              > for their practicality. So a spark gets the idea to make a refrigerator.
              > From what we've seen of those in the madness place, they start thinking
              > about what it takes to freeze the world, or how it also needs to have
              > big arms and legs to go out and get what want to put into it...
              >
              > And one more possibility - when the Europeans started going to the
              > Americas, their technological was sufficiently advanced over the natives
              > that the Europeans could pretty much do whatever they wanted (which for
              > the most part was "take it all"). If the Spark is not a wholly European
              > attribute, European explorers may have found technologically advanced
              > Native Americas waiting, with much shorter supply lines for their
              > madboys. Which means the trick wasn't getting to the Americas, but
              > getting back.

              This is one of those asked and answered by the Professors things--there obviously HAS been contact with the Americas and sufficient trade that new-world crops like potatoes and chocolate are well-established in Europe after contact's been cut off, and there's enough quasi-legendy knowledge that things like the fake American costumes in the Circus look like what we'd think of as Halloween-type Indian dress up. IIRC, there WAS contact and settlement, and famous American (ie Anglo/European-American) figures did exist and some were sparks, and there were DEFINTELY American Indian Sparks, and then...something big went down, and now if you try to reach America, you don't make it and never come back.

              Whether we're ever going to get DETAILS...well, the story will take as long as it takes and I'm sure it's on the professorial to-do list...somewhere....I can wait on that one until we get an answer to the OP's FIRST question, about those time portals...

              Jennifer
            • Dimo Jager
              Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent?
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                Did Omar die because the locket was draining all his energy? or because Agatha told him to and he was a reverent? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021122

                ....

                The Spark. Genius. High Intelligence. There are those of us who do more than normal people. Not because they think better, it is because they think faster. Agatha's locket was designed to throttle her down from "Spark" to mere "Normal."

                Omar was wearing Agatha's locket. It throttled him down from "Normal" to "not alive."

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steven Paul Rewa, M.S.
                ... It s gotten to the point where a lot of the people in universe have come to the conclusion that the Americas no longer exist. I doubt that, but we
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                  --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, "tiepilot.geo" <tiepilot.geo@...> wrote:
                  > This is one of those asked and answered by the Professors things--there obviously HAS been contact with the Americas and sufficient trade that new-world crops like potatoes and chocolate are well-established in Europe after contact's been cut off, and there's enough quasi-legendy knowledge that things like the fake American costumes in the Circus look like what we'd think of as Halloween-type Indian dress up. IIRC, there WAS contact and settlement, and famous American (ie Anglo/European-American) figures did exist and some were sparks, and there were DEFINTELY American Indian Sparks, and then...something big went down, and now if you try to reach America, you don't make it and never come back.
                  >

                  It's gotten to the point where a lot of the people in universe have come to the conclusion that the Americas no longer exist. I doubt that, but we shouldn't rule that out as a possibility either.

                  There was a really great "article" on the America's and Thundering Engine Woman in one of the original comic issues back before it was on-line. I haven't got mine handy, but some other members of the list might. I was really sad about the cool extras in the comics that disappeared when it went to the bound volumes and then to on-line. I've been thinking about scanning some of that old stuff in and posting it to the group but I don't want to do anything the Foglios wouldn't approve of. Alice, maybe you could find out for me if that would be OK. Otherwise maybe someone already has an posted it elsewhere.

                  -Steve

                  p.s. Thanks, Reilynn, for calling me "good authority." Thanks to everyone else for backing up my statement;)
                • ravyng
                  ... Well, in a world full of Sparks, there are lots of newfound inventions lying around in labs only known by a few people, and they re quickly used for
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                    --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:

                    > This may be a bit of "sparks can invent whatever they need to" and a bit
                    > of "if it's funny, that justifies it". But the Baron's Empire relies on
                    > semaphores and messengers for communication, and if there was a
                    > developing system of radio communication, you'd think the Baron would
                    > have it.

                    Well, in a world full of Sparks, there are lots of newfound inventions lying around in labs only known by a few people, and they're quickly used for destructive reasons. The Baron can't know about all of them. This thing is certainly not affiliated with him, since it expected to find and kill his puppet government in Mechanicsburg. Just one of the hordes of opportunists who appeared to take advantage of the chaos.

                    > Ah, my error, the novel has her shouting "Bring back my locket". She
                    > does say "Wha--NO!" as Omar is grabbing it, which might work.

                    Well, I haven't read the novel. It *might* work, but does the novel still have the "die slowly, like the miserable rats you are" line? That was said in absolute fury, which is supposedly when she sounds the most like her mother.

                    > But when Agatha is ranting, she is describing what she wants to see. She
                    > also is wishing death on both Moloch and Omar, and it seems unlikely
                    > that only one would be a revenant (yes, I think that's the right name).

                    Why unlikely? My impression is that each individual wasp can only infect one (like a regular wasp can only sting once), and this whole situation came about because Omar stuck his fingers where they didn't belong. Anyway, we know too little about Omar and Moloch's past to know either way. Presumably, judging from the windows into the future, their past will become more important at some point.

                    > Only the guy holding the locket died, so seems reasonable the locket was
                    > the cause.

                    Maybe. Let me make it clear that I'm not discounting it. I just feel that we don't know enough either way, and that "die slowly" line seems significant to me.

                    Yngvar
                  • Trouble Sturm
                    ... I think, especially early in the series, the revenants don t respond to her voice unless she is in a sparky rant. Once they fixate on her, though, they
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                      On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 2:57 PM, ravyng <yngfoel@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Well, I haven't read the novel. It *might* work, but does the novel still
                      > have the "die slowly, like the miserable rats you are" line? That was said
                      > in absolute fury, which is supposedly when she sounds the most like her
                      > mother.
                      >
                      >
                      I think, especially early in the series, the revenants don't respond to her
                      voice unless she is in a sparky rant. Once they fixate on her, though,
                      they might respond to everything she says.


                      >
                      > Why unlikely? My impression is that each individual wasp can only infect
                      > one (like a regular wasp can only sting once), and this whole situation
                      > came about because Omar stuck his fingers where they didn't belong. Anyway,
                      > we know too little about Omar and Moloch's past to know either way.
                      > Presumably, judging from the windows into the future, their past will
                      > become more important at some point.
                      >
                      >
                      You are confusing wasps with bees. Wasps can sting repeatedly.

                      >
                      >
                      > Yngvar
                      >
                      >


                      --
                      rh
                      Trouble


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Joshua Kronengold
                      ... Eh. It doesn t seem that likely -- if Moloch s brother was a revenant, he d likely have listened to her earlier when she said no . Plus it s not an
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                        On 06/13/2012 05:57 PM, ravyng wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com <mailto:girlgenius%40yahoogroups.com>, Donald
                        > Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > This may be a bit of "sparks can invent whatever they need to" and a bit
                        > > of "if it's funny, that justifies it". But the Baron's Empire relies on
                        > > semaphores and messengers for communication, and if there was a
                        > > developing system of radio communication, you'd think the Baron would
                        > > have it.
                        >
                        > Well, in a world full of Sparks, there are lots of newfound inventions lying
                        > around in labs only known by a few people, and they're quickly used for
                        > destructive reasons. The Baron can't know about all of them. This thing is
                        > certainly not affiliated with him, since it expected to find and kill his
                        > puppet government in Mechanicsburg. Just one of the hordes of opportunists who
                        > appeared to take advantage of the chaos.
                        >
                        > > Ah, my error, the novel has her shouting "Bring back my locket". She
                        > > does say "Wha--NO!" as Omar is grabbing it, which might work.
                        >
                        > Well, I haven't read the novel. It *might* work, but does the novel still have
                        > the "die slowly, like the miserable rats you are" line? That was said in
                        > absolute fury, which is supposedly when she sounds the most like her mother.
                        >
                        > > But when Agatha is ranting, she is describing what she wants to see. She
                        > > also is wishing death on both Moloch and Omar, and it seems unlikely
                        > > that only one would be a revenant (yes, I think that's the right name).
                        >
                        > Why unlikely? My impression is that each individual wasp can only infect one
                        > (like a regular wasp can only sting once), and this whole situation came about
                        > because Omar stuck his fingers where they didn't belong. Anyway, we know too
                        > little about Omar and Moloch's past to know either way. Presumably, judging
                        > from the windows into the future, their past will become more important at some
                        > point.
                        >
                        > > Only the guy holding the locket died, so seems reasonable the locket was
                        > > the cause.
                        >
                        > Maybe. Let me make it clear that I'm not discounting it. I just feel that we
                        > don't know enough either way, and that "die slowly" line seems significant to me.

                        Eh. It doesn't seem that likely -- if Moloch's brother was a revenant, he'd
                        likely have listened to her earlier when she said "no".

                        Plus it's not an order.

                        Plus they don't seem to have been in earshot for that part.

                        Plus it's not he had time to get infected; he was busy being soldiering!

                        Much more likely is the obvious possibility that a device designed to drain
                        energy from a spark and make them "normal" -- and that when put on a spark with
                        a personality graft would suppress the other personality -- would, when placed
                        on a non-spark for long enough, drain their brain function and eventually kill
                        them.

                        Plus the text explicitly states that the locked killed him in the last dialogue
                        bit that touched on it, and it's not like there's any reason to go back and
                        change that now that the plot's gotten -way- beyond that.

                        --
                        Joshua Kronengold (mneme@...) "Release the |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
                        --^-- ... patents...and drop everything into the public /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
                        /\\ domain. OPEN SOURCE." "It's so scary when you say |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
                        /-\\\it like that" -- Howard Taylor (Schlock Mercenary) '---''(_/--' (_/-'
                      • Joshua Kronengold
                        ... The evidence is that slaver wasps only sting once; they fly inside you and then die after infecting you. -- Joshua Kronengold (mneme@labcats.org) Release
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                          On 06/13/2012 06:15 PM, Trouble Sturm wrote:
                          > > Why unlikely? My impression is that each individual wasp can only infect
                          > > one (like a regular wasp can only sting once), and this whole situation
                          > > came about because Omar stuck his fingers where they didn't belong. Anyway,
                          > > we know too little about Omar and Moloch's past to know either way.
                          > > Presumably, judging from the windows into the future, their past will
                          > > become more important at some point.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > You are confusing wasps with bees. Wasps can sting repeatedly.

                          The evidence is that slaver wasps only sting once; they fly inside you and then
                          die after infecting you.



                          --
                          Joshua Kronengold (mneme@...) "Release the |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
                          --^-- ... patents...and drop everything into the public /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
                          /\\ domain. OPEN SOURCE." "It's so scary when you say |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
                          /-\\\it like that" -- Howard Taylor (Schlock Mercenary) '---''(_/--' (_/-'
                        • Donald Brown
                          ... To turn a person into a revenant, the slaver wasp stings the inside of the throat - Eido clasped his hands over his mouth to make sure he wouldn t get
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                            On 6/13/12 3:15 PM, Trouble Sturm wrote:
                            >> >
                            >> > Why unlikely? My impression is that each individual wasp can only infect
                            >> > one (like a regular wasp can only sting once), and this whole situation
                            >> > came about because Omar stuck his fingers where they didn't belong. Anyway,
                            >> > we know too little about Omar and Moloch's past to know either way.
                            >> > Presumably, judging from the windows into the future, their past will
                            >> > become more important at some point.
                            >> >
                            >> >
                            > You are confusing wasps with bees. Wasps can sting repeatedly.
                            >
                            To turn a person into a revenant, the slaver wasp stings the inside of
                            the throat - Eido clasped his hands over his mouth to make sure he
                            wouldn't get infected, the Baron was wasped while talking, and either
                            the novel or comic have the warrior wasps preparing to force open
                            Agatha's and Gil's mouths before she orders them to release her. So it
                            does appear to be one wasp per revenant.

                            But the slaver wasps attack in swarms. So it seems unlikely Omar would
                            have been taken over but not Moloch.

                            I think there are more interesting questions about that locket. Barry
                            made the locket to keep Agatha from breaking out, Omar stole it, died,
                            Moloch took it and broke it. Baron got it and was fiddling with it,
                            which is how he had it when Lucrezia/Agatha wasped him.

                            But did he just fix it, put it back together as Barry made it? Or did he
                            make other changes?
                          • Ariadne
                            ... Looking as mechanical (and shiny) as it does I suspect it s some future incarnation of Anevka/Lucrezia.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 13, 2012
                              --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > On 6/12/12 8:08 PM, Reilynn wrote:
                              > > I have it on good authority that you don't mind re-hashing the old stuff.
                              > >
                              > > I am going to skip some things that I am pretty sure just haven't been revealed yet. Like who is the woman in the first time portal? http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021111
                              > Still a mystery to be revealed, but my guess is that it's Lucrezia,
                              > original Lucrezia, fiddling with time and dimensional portals.
                              >


                              Looking as mechanical (and shiny) as it does I suspect it's some future incarnation of Anevka/Lucrezia.
                            • Steven Paul Rewa, M.S.
                              ... Well, we don t know. After he fixes it, it stops Lucrezia from controling Agatha, but it doesn t stop Agatha s spark anymore. It looks like it does
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 14, 2012
                                --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Donald Brown <gadgetdon@...> wrote:
                                > On 6/13/12 3:15 PM, Trouble Sturm wrote:
                                > I think there are more interesting questions about that locket. Barry
                                > made the locket to keep Agatha from breaking out, Omar stole it, died,
                                > Moloch took it and broke it. Baron got it and was fiddling with it,
                                > which is how he had it when Lucrezia/Agatha wasped him.
                                >
                                > But did he just fix it, put it back together as Barry made it? Or did he
                                > make other changes?
                                >

                                Well, we don't know. After he fixes it, it stops Lucrezia from controling Agatha, but it doesn't stop Agatha's spark anymore. It looks like it does something totally different from what it did before the Baron tinkered with it. It was suggested here back when that scene first happened that the locket blocked brain activity but it can only do so much. Let's say it knocks down the top 50% of your brain function. That would kill a normal person, stop a spark from being a spark, or eliminate one extra personality. For what it's worth, at the end of the Novel when Agatha discusses teh locket with Zeetha she says that she can still feel it dumbing her down. That suggests that it sxtill does what it used to do, but it's no longer enough to handle Agatha.

                                One of the interesting thiings about the novel, particularly volume 2, is that Agatha has a much more evident chaotic streak. It might just be me, but it seems like they were hinting in the novel that without the locket she was heading down a really slippery slope toward "bad guy."

                                -Steve
                              • tiepilot.geo
                                ... Well, she IS a Heterodyne, and her father is one of the only two we re aware of who WEREN T raving mad-scientist pscyhopaths. And Agatha gets the added
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 14, 2012
                                  --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, "Steven Paul Rewa, M.S." >
                                  > One of the interesting thiings about the novel, particularly volume 2, is that Agatha has a much more evident chaotic streak. It might just be me, but it seems like they were hinting in the novel that without the locket she was heading down a really slippery slope toward "bad guy."


                                  Well, she IS a Heterodyne, and her father is one of the only two we're aware of who WEREN'T raving mad-scientist pscyhopaths. And Agatha gets the added 'bonus' of her mother being from another family of certified Grade A Evil. Even in the comics, some of what she does once in the Castle is definitely toeing the line and lampshaded (heck, even BEFORE she gets into the Castle she prompts a "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?" from Wooster-who's been working on Castle Wulfenbach, remember, so it's not like he's never seen a madgirl/boy "work" before-and Carson flat-out says "She's a Heterodyne, this place does something to them.")

                                  If anything Agatha seems more prone to fits of Sparkish 'depraved indifference to human life and safety' than Gil or Tarvek-Gil seems to limit his explosions to fairly controled and directed bursts of anger (scaring Wooster into getting Agatha, taking out Selnikov's war clanks), while Tarvek has truly lost it, what, once, and that was pounding on Zola in a fit of rage, not building a weapon of mass destruction because hey, why not? Heck, even there, Gil built his lightning gun because he NEEDED a weapon that would make people respect him not to just prove he's the baddest spark in town but to try and keep his father's Empire stable in dire circumstances--remember he didn't even have a death ray (even a little one) originally. Gil seems to direct his 'madness place' to building and repairing things rather than wanton destruction, and Tarvek (as has been brought up in other speculation) appears to have much better control of himself than the average Gifted. Meanwhile even WITHOUT knowing her full potential, Agatha comes up with a merry-go-round that can level a small town.

                                  Maybe part of Barry's reasoning with the locket, leaving Agatha with Punch and Judy to be raised as a 'mundane' by loving parents, damping down her skills, was to try and derail the dominant Heterodyne evil-genius tendencies early on. Especially with a Mongfish for a mother, whether she was originally The Other or not, he had to have known the odds weren't in favor of Agatha just growing up into a sweet, considerate person of her own accord.

                                  Jennifer
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