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Re: [Girl Genius] Tarvek the Brainless

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  • stereo_bis
    ... Interesting, but I have another hypothesis about why Tarvek was able to reverse-engineer Tinka without much (if any) damage: he descend from both the Storm
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
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      --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, God <god@...> wrote:
      >
      > While I tend to agree with most of this, However... Tarvek seems to have
      > been able to reverse-engineer a genuine Van-Rijn Clank (Tinka) in order
      > to save his sister... as for the damage we SAW, from his statement in
      > the last panel on this page:
      >
      > > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051104
      >
      > that seems to have been caused by his father, NOT HIMSELF. So... going
      > on that assumption, T is possibly even a better spark than Gil due to
      > that alone, but... (snippety-snap!)
      >

      Interesting, but I have another hypothesis about why Tarvek was able to reverse-engineer Tinka without much (if any) damage: he descend from both the Storm King _and_ Van Rijin. Hey! We know that a girl can't inherit the throne, yes? And Van Rijin was the best spark of his age (possibly of all time, etc.) so why wouldn't the Storm King "grant" him his daughter as thanks for, say, the muses? And since it's been a long line of daughters until the Mongfishes came into play, Tarvek's surname is not Van Rijin. And styles can run in families, you know? ;-)


      Maybe I should wait to be fully awake before posting: Stereo
    • rewastev
      ... I think Tarvek and Gil both make the same mistake of misjudging and/or underestimating Agatha. They re both schemers with detailed plans, but nothing goes
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
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        --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, "akgreentea" <akgreentea@...> wrote:
        > Thoughts?
        >

        I think Tarvek and Gil both make the same mistake of misjudging and/or underestimating Agatha. They're both schemers with detailed plans, but nothing goes acording to plan because Agatha always reacts in unforseen ways.

        -Steven Rewa
      • Amanda L. Servello
        ... We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing things
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
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          On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:09 PM, God <god@...> wrote:
          >
          > that seems to have been caused by his father, NOT HIMSELF. So... going
          > on that assumption, T is possibly even a better spark than Gil due to
          > that alone, but... since we don't have comparable data for Gil, on what
          > type of other stuff he's been fixing/ upgrading, experimenting on,
          > etc...,


          We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs
          who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing
          things to bits, with only the space and supplies that would make him believe
          he was able to hide them from his father.

          Repairing something that was nearly destroyed, when you didn't get to check
          it out before it was destroyed, when that thing was made by someone else who
          wasn't great at design (for example, Agatha's father couldn't talk before)
          AND managing to keep their personalities intact AND fix some existing
          problems.... I find that more impressive than being able to take something
          apart and figure out how it worked well enough to base something off of it,
          especially since T couldn't manage to repair Tinka afterwards.


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        • God
          ... from when Tarvek was explaining about how he took Tinka, the flashback was of her on stage performing, to the stuttering and shambling that she was doing
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
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            Prof. Zarchne (of Zarkhnistan) wrote:

            > Did we see any damage that wasn't attributable to depression
            > over separation from her sister Moxana? Moxana seemed to
            > suffer from the same depression.

            from when Tarvek was explaining about how he took Tinka, the flashback
            was of her on stage performing, to the stuttering and shambling that she
            was doing afterwards, yes I'd say that was damage, not depression...
            especially when she herself said she needed maintenance, note she didn't
            say she needed company, but fixing... compare that to Moxana... while
            yes it's true she can't talk and voice the concerns for Tinka
            verbally... but the depression didn't seem to affect her physical
            ability to do the card tricks and chessboard stuff when Agatha was
            introduced to her. and i can just about *guarantee* that she led a very
            "safe" existence, at least when it came down to physical damage, in her
            time at the circus. so the difference seems to be T's father's
            bull-in-a-china-shop bumbling about with her. remember... If he killed
            multiple actual live human girls to almost include HIS OWN DAUGHTER...
            then some measly little clank ain't gonna' mean SQUAT to (the now
            deceased) Prince Aaronev and his plans to do as he pleased with her,
            Van-Rijn or not...
          • God
            ... and you call Zoing! a *great design*?!... :-) granted, it would have taken a lot of Spark power in the first place to build Zoing from as many disparate
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
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              Amanda L. Servello wrote:

              > We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs
              > who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing
              > things to bits, with only the space and supplies that would make him believe
              > he was able to hide them from his father.
              >
              > Repairing something that was nearly destroyed, when you didn't get to check
              > it out before it was destroyed, when that thing was made by someone else who
              > wasn't great at design (for example, Agatha's father couldn't talk before)
              > AND managing to keep their personalities intact AND fix some existing
              > problems.... I find that more impressive than being able to take something
              > apart and figure out how it worked well enough to base something off of it,
              > especially since T couldn't manage to repair Tinka afterwards.

              and you call Zoing! a *great design*?!... :-) granted, it would have
              taken a lot of Spark power in the first place to build Zoing from as
              many disparate entities as it seems to be made of, and still be viable
              construct, so that does tend to increase his Spark Quotient... however,
              your argument doesn't... even though Adam and Lilith were constructs,
              they were still *Human* constructs... not really much room for creative
              difference's there, AFAIK... they had to be *human* enough to pass for
              human for at least 18 years!... so he would be re-assembling them from a
              pretty standard design path... arm goes here, leg there, spleen in
              between, etc...

              as for Adam getting a new voice-box, well, it remains to be seen whether
              or not Gil ADDED it to Punch and kept Judy's there, as well, or if the
              one voice-box was put back into Him vs Judy... maybe Gil thought it was
              so badly damaged by Von-Pinn, that it was now an unrecognizable pile of
              dead and squished flesh on the floor, so he gave him a new one, thus
              imparting a new ability that Punch didn't have before... all unknowingly
              done... remember though, as far as he knows, both of them can talk... at
              least, according to his complete series of the Heterodyne stories in his
              lab's library...

              as for Tinka and Tarvek, have you ever rebuilt the engine in your
              car?... really complex now days, huh? and that is just to rotate the
              crankshaft in one direction... now add in all the gearing for all the
              limbs and joints for all the same things we have... plus the mechanical
              brains / CPU... if you just started unscrewing screws, you could
              accidentally undo one of the tension screws holding all the gears in
              place, rather than a screw to hold the whole thing inside he skull
              casing, or the skull onto the neck itself... but if you knew that this
              particular one was not to be touched on disassembly, it is only to be
              used for adjustments, etc... etc... so that increases T's Spark, but
              again DECREASES his fathers... as for not being able to fix Tinka
              afterwards, that just means that some of the "adjustments" that "dear
              'ol DAD did were subtle enough that T may not know they were even done
              in the first place, all of the settings seem to be "correct"
              individually, but not taken as a whole.
            • Amanda L. Servello
              ... I have repaired complex machines. My job in the military, actually, and I was quite good at it-- great deal of experience with dealing with pure
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
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                On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:10 PM, God <god@...> wrote:

                > as for Tinka and Tarvek, have you ever rebuilt the engine in your
                > car?... really complex now days, huh?


                I have repaired complex machines. My job in the military, actually, and I
                was quite good at it-- great deal of experience with dealing with pure
                mechanical vs blended vs electronic gear, in situations from "take this
                apart so you can learn how it works and fix the other one" to "here's a box
                full of chunks, can you fix it? Uh, what's a manual?"

                The ones where you get to see it in working order are easier than the ones
                you didn't, even if you're familiar with a *similar* design, which is sadly
                as far as being familiar with generic "human" will get you... Gil possibly
                being familiar with Hetrodyne design, from being around Jaegers (very small
                possibility) would give more of a "boost" because of the similarities of
                design. (Jaegers don't look very human, but they would have the family
                design and show similar strength. Just not likely he'd get to inspect
                much....)

                Pure mechanical are also easier than ones with chips-- which would be about
                as close as current technology gets to the clockwork vs wetwork
                difficulties.

                Add on top that fieldwork is harder than shopwork, and that is a lot of
                points in Gil's direction.
                (Gil= trying to put an unknown broken thing back together with limited
                supplies; Tarv= trying to put back together the thing he carefully took
                apart to find out exactly how it worked in a lab with every advantage that
                could be managed.)


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