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Re: [Girl Genius] Tarvek the Brainless

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  • Prof. Zarchne (of Zarkhnistan)
    ... Did we see any damage that wasn t attributable to depression over separation from her sister Moxana? Moxana seemed to suffer from the same depression.
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 31, 2009
      On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:09:44PM -0700, God wrote:
      > as for the damage we SAW

      Did we see any damage that wasn't attributable to depression
      over separation from her sister Moxana? Moxana seemed to
      suffer from the same depression.
    • stereo_bis
      ... Interesting, but I have another hypothesis about why Tarvek was able to reverse-engineer Tinka without much (if any) damage: he descend from both the Storm
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
        --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, God <god@...> wrote:
        >
        > While I tend to agree with most of this, However... Tarvek seems to have
        > been able to reverse-engineer a genuine Van-Rijn Clank (Tinka) in order
        > to save his sister... as for the damage we SAW, from his statement in
        > the last panel on this page:
        >
        > > http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20051104
        >
        > that seems to have been caused by his father, NOT HIMSELF. So... going
        > on that assumption, T is possibly even a better spark than Gil due to
        > that alone, but... (snippety-snap!)
        >

        Interesting, but I have another hypothesis about why Tarvek was able to reverse-engineer Tinka without much (if any) damage: he descend from both the Storm King _and_ Van Rijin. Hey! We know that a girl can't inherit the throne, yes? And Van Rijin was the best spark of his age (possibly of all time, etc.) so why wouldn't the Storm King "grant" him his daughter as thanks for, say, the muses? And since it's been a long line of daughters until the Mongfishes came into play, Tarvek's surname is not Van Rijin. And styles can run in families, you know? ;-)


        Maybe I should wait to be fully awake before posting: Stereo
      • rewastev
        ... I think Tarvek and Gil both make the same mistake of misjudging and/or underestimating Agatha. They re both schemers with detailed plans, but nothing goes
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
          --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, "akgreentea" <akgreentea@...> wrote:
          > Thoughts?
          >

          I think Tarvek and Gil both make the same mistake of misjudging and/or underestimating Agatha. They're both schemers with detailed plans, but nothing goes acording to plan because Agatha always reacts in unforseen ways.

          -Steven Rewa
        • Amanda L. Servello
          ... We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing things
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2009
            On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:09 PM, God <god@...> wrote:
            >
            > that seems to have been caused by his father, NOT HIMSELF. So... going
            > on that assumption, T is possibly even a better spark than Gil due to
            > that alone, but... since we don't have comparable data for Gil, on what
            > type of other stuff he's been fixing/ upgrading, experimenting on,
            > etc...,


            We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs
            who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing
            things to bits, with only the space and supplies that would make him believe
            he was able to hide them from his father.

            Repairing something that was nearly destroyed, when you didn't get to check
            it out before it was destroyed, when that thing was made by someone else who
            wasn't great at design (for example, Agatha's father couldn't talk before)
            AND managing to keep their personalities intact AND fix some existing
            problems.... I find that more impressive than being able to take something
            apart and figure out how it worked well enough to base something off of it,
            especially since T couldn't manage to repair Tinka afterwards.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • God
            ... from when Tarvek was explaining about how he took Tinka, the flashback was of her on stage performing, to the stuttering and shambling that she was doing
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
              Prof. Zarchne (of Zarkhnistan) wrote:

              > Did we see any damage that wasn't attributable to depression
              > over separation from her sister Moxana? Moxana seemed to
              > suffer from the same depression.

              from when Tarvek was explaining about how he took Tinka, the flashback
              was of her on stage performing, to the stuttering and shambling that she
              was doing afterwards, yes I'd say that was damage, not depression...
              especially when she herself said she needed maintenance, note she didn't
              say she needed company, but fixing... compare that to Moxana... while
              yes it's true she can't talk and voice the concerns for Tinka
              verbally... but the depression didn't seem to affect her physical
              ability to do the card tricks and chessboard stuff when Agatha was
              introduced to her. and i can just about *guarantee* that she led a very
              "safe" existence, at least when it came down to physical damage, in her
              time at the circus. so the difference seems to be T's father's
              bull-in-a-china-shop bumbling about with her. remember... If he killed
              multiple actual live human girls to almost include HIS OWN DAUGHTER...
              then some measly little clank ain't gonna' mean SQUAT to (the now
              deceased) Prince Aaronev and his plans to do as he pleased with her,
              Van-Rijn or not...
            • God
              ... and you call Zoing! a *great design*?!... :-) granted, it would have taken a lot of Spark power in the first place to build Zoing from as many disparate
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
                Amanda L. Servello wrote:

                > We know that he managed to repair two early model Heterodyne bio-constructs
                > who had been torn to bits by someone who is very, very good at tearing
                > things to bits, with only the space and supplies that would make him believe
                > he was able to hide them from his father.
                >
                > Repairing something that was nearly destroyed, when you didn't get to check
                > it out before it was destroyed, when that thing was made by someone else who
                > wasn't great at design (for example, Agatha's father couldn't talk before)
                > AND managing to keep their personalities intact AND fix some existing
                > problems.... I find that more impressive than being able to take something
                > apart and figure out how it worked well enough to base something off of it,
                > especially since T couldn't manage to repair Tinka afterwards.

                and you call Zoing! a *great design*?!... :-) granted, it would have
                taken a lot of Spark power in the first place to build Zoing from as
                many disparate entities as it seems to be made of, and still be viable
                construct, so that does tend to increase his Spark Quotient... however,
                your argument doesn't... even though Adam and Lilith were constructs,
                they were still *Human* constructs... not really much room for creative
                difference's there, AFAIK... they had to be *human* enough to pass for
                human for at least 18 years!... so he would be re-assembling them from a
                pretty standard design path... arm goes here, leg there, spleen in
                between, etc...

                as for Adam getting a new voice-box, well, it remains to be seen whether
                or not Gil ADDED it to Punch and kept Judy's there, as well, or if the
                one voice-box was put back into Him vs Judy... maybe Gil thought it was
                so badly damaged by Von-Pinn, that it was now an unrecognizable pile of
                dead and squished flesh on the floor, so he gave him a new one, thus
                imparting a new ability that Punch didn't have before... all unknowingly
                done... remember though, as far as he knows, both of them can talk... at
                least, according to his complete series of the Heterodyne stories in his
                lab's library...

                as for Tinka and Tarvek, have you ever rebuilt the engine in your
                car?... really complex now days, huh? and that is just to rotate the
                crankshaft in one direction... now add in all the gearing for all the
                limbs and joints for all the same things we have... plus the mechanical
                brains / CPU... if you just started unscrewing screws, you could
                accidentally undo one of the tension screws holding all the gears in
                place, rather than a screw to hold the whole thing inside he skull
                casing, or the skull onto the neck itself... but if you knew that this
                particular one was not to be touched on disassembly, it is only to be
                used for adjustments, etc... etc... so that increases T's Spark, but
                again DECREASES his fathers... as for not being able to fix Tinka
                afterwards, that just means that some of the "adjustments" that "dear
                'ol DAD did were subtle enough that T may not know they were even done
                in the first place, all of the settings seem to be "correct"
                individually, but not taken as a whole.
              • Amanda L. Servello
                ... I have repaired complex machines. My job in the military, actually, and I was quite good at it-- great deal of experience with dealing with pure
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 2, 2009
                  On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 11:10 PM, God <god@...> wrote:

                  > as for Tinka and Tarvek, have you ever rebuilt the engine in your
                  > car?... really complex now days, huh?


                  I have repaired complex machines. My job in the military, actually, and I
                  was quite good at it-- great deal of experience with dealing with pure
                  mechanical vs blended vs electronic gear, in situations from "take this
                  apart so you can learn how it works and fix the other one" to "here's a box
                  full of chunks, can you fix it? Uh, what's a manual?"

                  The ones where you get to see it in working order are easier than the ones
                  you didn't, even if you're familiar with a *similar* design, which is sadly
                  as far as being familiar with generic "human" will get you... Gil possibly
                  being familiar with Hetrodyne design, from being around Jaegers (very small
                  possibility) would give more of a "boost" because of the similarities of
                  design. (Jaegers don't look very human, but they would have the family
                  design and show similar strength. Just not likely he'd get to inspect
                  much....)

                  Pure mechanical are also easier than ones with chips-- which would be about
                  as close as current technology gets to the clockwork vs wetwork
                  difficulties.

                  Add on top that fieldwork is harder than shopwork, and that is a lot of
                  points in Gil's direction.
                  (Gil= trying to put an unknown broken thing back together with limited
                  supplies; Tarv= trying to put back together the thing he carefully took
                  apart to find out exactly how it worked in a lab with every advantage that
                  could be managed.)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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