Re: My submission for "screwiest theory of the week"
- --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "sanf_sara" <sanf_sara@...> wrote:
>Biggest hole in the theory is, of course, that the Jaegers ought to
> I seem to recall this theory being mentioned a few times in the group
> archives, and I agree with the reasons put against this theory. It's
> so past my bedtime I can't remember what those reasons are.
have smelled him out immediately. On the other hand if I was Barry,
and I didn't want to be found, and I knew Klaus and an army of Jaegers
might be looking for me, inventing a way to disguise my scent would be
real high on my list.
Hey, I did say it was screwy...
- Unless Barry is suffering from head-bonk-amnesia or something and
doesn't *know* that he's Barry, I don't he can be Payne.
My objections (in no particular order, except for putting a 101
spoiler at the bottom)
Barry is one of the most powerful sparks of his times (some in this
group suspect that he was the brains of the H. Boys). Payne is a
powerful spark, but he's going to Beetle for help and hopes *Agatha*
can figure out what's wrong with Moxana when he can't.
Related, Payne says he doesn't trust Beetle. Barry left his niece
in Beetle's care. If his attitude toward Beetle changed, he should
have got Agatha out of there. If he never trusted Beetle, why did
he leave her there in the first place.
I have a hard time believing Barry would just drop everything to
start the circus. Yes, the purpose of the circus is noble, but
would he abandon his niece and loyal retainers to do it? I find
this particularly hard to swallow because:
(a) It's a pretty safe bet that Barry was involved in rescuing baby
Agatha from the Geisterdamen, and is hiding Agatha from them
specifically as well as nasty people who would use a spark generally.
(b) Barry has got to know how awful it is for Agatha wearing that
locket. If he just left her that way, with no intention of trying
to find a better way to protect and hide her, he's a louse. And
although I really only have the Heterodyne stories and a few of
Agatha's memories to judge him by, I don't think he's a louse. I
firmly believe Barry's failure to return is either because he
physically can't return or he has reason to believe returning would
make matters worse.
(Minor spoiler follows: if you don't want to hear about stuff
between 101 and the advanced class stop reading)
Payne doesn't recognize the name Agatha Clay when they meet, which
Barry certainly should. Even granting that he might try to keep his
recognition from both Agatha and the rest of the circus, I don't
think Barry coming across Agatha would act as Payne has. Barry went
to great lengths to conceal Agatha's spark. Whatever his
motivation, finding her walking around locket-less, he would want to
find out what's going on and try to get the situation under control
again. Payne tries to get rid of Agatha as quickly as possible.
- Oooh! Oooh! My turn for a screwball theory!
I think that the one's playing Punch and Judy in the Magical Mystery
Hallucination are (drum roll please) Master Payne and the Countess. Why?
A couple of reasons. The first is that this may be a last minute plan to
pull the fat from the fire, so to speak. As such, there are a lot of
seams that could give at any time, thus requiring close supervision,
which can only be accomplished if a certain pair of Sparks are right in
the middle of things. The second is that with the Circus' cover blown,
Master Payne (whose name is part of the show) and his Lady Wife must
flee. Since they are fleeing from The Baron (cue scary organ music) they
will need to be under the protection of a powerful Spark. From the
dearth of choices available, Agatha is 'it'. The rest of the Circus folk
can disappear into the background, so volunteers were called to pull off
this cockamamie . . . er . . . daringly brilliant escape plan.
Well, that's *my* two groats on the subject.
Oh, grand. The world has gone barking mad again, and I can't find my
- tom_brosz <no_reply@...> wrote:
> Biggest hole in the theory is, of course, that the Jaegers ought toNevermind smelling him--they would have RECOGNIZED him. After all,
> have smelled him out immediately.
they knew the Heterodynes personally. If he were Barry, likewise, he
would have realized who Agatha was--even if he doesn't spot the
family resemblence, her original ray-gun had a Heterodyne symbol on
it, she has her mother's voice, Jaegers follow her around, everything
she makes shows the Heterodyne/Mongfish spark, etc, etc. He would
never, therefore, have been willing to abandon her to the prince.
He also would have been well-known among the courts of Europe. No
matter how good his disguise was, he'd have to realize that showing
up personally at a performance for one of Lucrezia's primary backers
would simply be too dangerous; and as one of the greatest Sparks in
recent history, he would've had ways to avoid it.
I think he might've known the Heterodynes personally; he certainly
seems to have opinions about the Baron. But him being a Heterodyne
just doesn't seem to work.
- --- In email@example.com, aquillion <no_reply@...> wrote:
> Nevermind smelling him--they would have RECOGNIZED him. After all,Your reasoning holds up pretty well. The real Barry would certainly
> they knew the Heterodynes personally. If he were Barry, likewise, he
> would have realized who Agatha was--even if he doesn't spot the
> family resemblence, her original ray-gun had a Heterodyne symbol on
> it, she has her mother's voice, Jaegers follow her around, everything
> she makes shows the Heterodyne/Mongfish spark, etc, etc. He would
> never, therefore, have been willing to abandon her to the prince.
have acted differently in those circumstances, unless he was stricken
with amnesia or something, which is such a hoary old cliche that the
Foglios would never come within a mile of it.
- A "hypnotic gas." Of COURSE Agatha would see Adam and Lilith exactly
as they appeared in real life! Wonder what versions of Punch and Judy
others were seeing...
> A "hypnotic gas." Of COURSE Agatha would see Adam and Lilith exactlyOK, so I was a *little* off. I'm still holding on to the rest of them.
> as they appeared in real life! Wonder what versions of Punch and Judy
> others were seeing...
Pix is Lucriza
Abner is Bill
Augie is Barry
TEW is the Lost Wages Show Girl
"You're only given one little spark of madness. You mustn't lose it."
- Re:Posted by: "rja_carnegie" rja_carnegie@...
rja_carnegie <http://profiles.yahoo.com/rja_carnegie> >Mon Feb 5, 2007
6:50 pm (PST) >"David Chapman" <dc@...> wrote:
>> (origins of Adam and Lilith in the Talmud)yeah. he had issues about her wanting equality..
>I knew this, not very well but I knew it. First marriage
>didn't work out?
>Anyway, alhough Abrahamic religion isn't conspicuous inI think it's actually a literary reference. Dr Frankensteins' creation was
>Europe (Goddess worship... is underground apparently),
>if that much of it does exist then wouldn't those names
>be provocative? Is it credible they're common names
>that no one would notice?
named "Adam". I dunno about the "Bride".
>It is better than Punch and Judy, and perhaps it's aAnd he alone survived to tell the tale...
>personal statement - choosing your own name. Now don't
>tell everyone but although this is my legal given name,
>I grew up as Robin. Not only that, but I was at boarding
>school with it. Imagine! Harry Potter only has the Dark
>Lord to worry about!
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