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[Girl Genius] Re: Jagerfemmes?

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  • industriosalve
    ... Hey all... If you ever gave away or got close to anything serious (or were a million miles away, for that matter) you generally won t see
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 9, 2003
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      > Sorry if gave away anything Kaja.
      >
      >
      > Karrion


      Hey all...
      If you ever "gave away" or got close to anything serious (or were
      a million miles away, for that matter) you generally won't see
      confirmation/denial of it, or a "...Well, ya got me", or "Ice
      cold!"....so don't worry about spoiling-by-accident. Kaja was
      being lighthearted. :)

      ~Savannah
    • Damien Sullivan
      ... But why wouldn t Heterodynes Jaegerize themselves? Possibly without the loyalty-to-other-Heterodynes component although I could see that going either way.
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 9, 2003
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        On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 06:44:37PM -0500, Jacob Lewis wrote:

        > Even so -- wouldn't that put the spark under the will of the Heterodynes? I
        > can see it now: the two basic forces of 'spark' and 'fealty' coursing
        > through the subject's veins. It makes my head hurt.

        But why wouldn't Heterodynes Jaegerize themselves? Possibly without the
        loyalty-to-other-Heterodynes component although I could see that going either
        way. We've got apparently immortal constructs, but apart from the line about
        Gil not believing Klaus would let himself die we haven't yet seen the logical
        immortal indestructible Sparks. (Unless Klaus's constructness is indeed
        self-operated. Go Klaus! I wanna be Klaus!) (Actually I kind of really do.
        AI researcher, I dreamed about raising my kids in a houseblimp years ago, I'm
        in theory sympathetic to the Stomp method of keeping the peace, I wanna live
        forever and learn everything...)

        -xx- Damien X-)
      • studiofoglio
        Ha! no, it s okay, it s obviously fun for everyone to speculate. In this case, the whole female jager, spark jager stuff hits a bit close to home as far as
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 9, 2003
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          Ha! no, it's okay, it's obviously fun for everyone to speculate.
          In this case, the whole female jager, spark jager stuff hits a bit close to
          home as far as some later plotlines are concerned, and makes us go "eek!"
          when you make good guesses.
          I'll say no more about it except that this sort of thing is one of the good
          reasons that we have an extensive story "bible" and that our lawyer says
          we shouldn't read fanfic!

          Possible spoiler relating to the last possible spoiler
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          In answer to another post, the Heterodyne Boys didn't make any new
          Jagers, and the older Heterodynes wouldn't have made any females on
          purpose. Why not? Ummm.... well... how many female soldiers did
          Napoleon (intentionally) have in his army? Or Washington? Don't make the
          mistake of thinking that the Girl Genius world is any less sexist than our own
          world's past. Jagers were made out of soldiers. Not a lot of women in
          there, except in the cases that I already described. Making female Jagers
          would simply never have occurred to these guys, any more than making
          female soldiers would have.

          By the way, most people in the GG world think that female Sparks are pretty
          odd, too. They exist, but it's unusual. This is actually because most
          females either don't get the education they need to break through, or if
          they do, somebody lobotomizes, imprisions or kills them. Sort of like female
          scientists in the real world for a lot of our history.
          Of course some, like Trelawney Thorpe, Thundering Engine Woman or
          Agatha's mom, manage to make it to a Sparky adulthood where they are
          hard to kill or control, but it is much harder for a girl to survive. Some hide it
          well, and all are considered oddities by an essentially sexist world.

          Agatha gets to deal with this later, too.

          Now I have to go work on issue Ten!

          --Kaja
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          End possible spoiler
        • Debbie Shinn
          Hey somebody had to build that clank gun! Debbie http://www.brigidsforge.com Original sterling Gothic and Pagan jewelry To announce that there must be no
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 9, 2003
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            Hey somebody had to build that clank gun!

            Debbie
            http://www.brigidsforge.com
            Original sterling Gothic and Pagan jewelry

            "To announce that there must be no criticism of the
            president, or that we are to stand by the president
            right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and servile,
            but is morally treasonable to the American public." -
            Teddy Roosevelt

            --- Karrion <darthkarrion@...> wrote:
            > If you think of it in terms of the Hetrodynes of old
            > it's not that
            > improbable. They may have even done it intentionaly.
            > What better way
            > to control minor sparks in your territory than to
            > turn them into
            > loyal more inclined to build weapons and such than
            > chalenge your
            > power. Let's not forget the terror value. Imagine
            > not only do a
            > bunch of Jagers roll into you villiage to plunder
            > and pillage but a
            > couple start making clanks out of your farm
            > machines. They'd also
            > make good field medics for the boys.
            > Sorry if gave away anything Kaja.
            >
            >
            > Karrion
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, "Jacob Lewis"
            > <notcarlos@h...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Dunno about Jager-ing a spark -- seems like it
            > would violate
            > something
            > > fundamental. But then, as any Terry Pratchett fan
            > knows, in most
            > universes,
            > > the point of having a fundamental at all is so
            > violation has a
            > target (for
            > > added pun-ishment, look up the word fundament).
            > >
            > > Even so -- wouldn't that put the spark under the
            > will of the
            > Heterodynes? I
            > > can see it now: the two basic forces of 'spark'
            > and 'fealty'
            > coursing
            > > through the subject's veins. It makes my head
            > hurt.
            > >
            > > Still, I sense some Fan Fiction coming out of
            > this. Not from me,
            > mind
            > > you...
            > >
            > > Jacob
            > >
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > I thought of something even worse.
            > > > If ladies could end up accidentaly 'Jagerized'
            > so could a spark.
            > > > Imagine a (more) manic, immortal, nearly
            > indestuctible madboy or
            > > > madgirl.........sounds like fun.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Karrion
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In girlgenius@yahoogroups.com, Stephanie
            > Ganger
            > <sganger@t...>
            > > > wrote:
            > > > > On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 09:39:12AM -0000,
            > Karrion wrote:
            > > > > > Oh gods, I had a vision after reading this;
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The 'new guy' is being welcomed by the
            > Jagers. Slapped on the
            > > > back,
            > > > > > chatted up about hats, offered a drink. They
            > are laughing it
            > up
            > > > when
            > > > > > the new guy sees himself in the mirror. He's
            > a Jager, a FOUR
            > > > ARMED
            > > > > > JAGER! Cut to a darkened bedroom. Boris, in
            > his pajamas,
            > bolts
            > > > > > upright screaming.
            > > > > > Next scene: A Jager carrying a bucket and
            > brush is stopped by
            > > > > > another. "Vat's ya up to?" "Hu hear 'bout
            > 'ol Four Arms
            > > > dream?" "Ya,
            > > > > > vat about it?" "Gunna paint him green
            > tonight. Vanna
            > > > helf?" "Hokay!"
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > That is quite a vision. I can almost imagining
            > it happening.
            > > > >
            > > > > --
            > > > > Stephanie Ganger sganger@t...
            > > > > www.teawithstephanie.com
            > > >
            > > >
            >
            >


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          • Adam Canning
            ... Who said anything about jagerising them to use them as soldiers. Jagerise the camp followers to lower their casulty rates [From what we ve seen so far
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 10, 2003
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              On 9 Jul 2003 at 21:35, studiofoglio wrote:

              > Ha! no, it's okay, it's obviously fun for everyone to speculate.
              > In this case, the whole female jager, spark jager stuff hits a bit close to
              > home as far as some later plotlines are concerned, and makes us go "eek!"
              > when you make good guesses.
              > I'll say no more about it except that this sort of thing is one of the good
              > reasons that we have an extensive story "bible" and that our lawyer says
              > we shouldn't read fanfic!
              >
              > Possible spoiler relating to the last possible spoiler
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              > In answer to another post, the Heterodyne Boys didn't make any new
              > Jagers, and the older Heterodynes wouldn't have made any females on
              > purpose. Why not? Ummm.... well... how many female soldiers did
              > Napoleon (intentionally) have in his army? Or Washington? Don't make the
              > mistake of thinking that the Girl Genius world is any less sexist than our own
              > world's past. Jagers were made out of soldiers. Not a lot of women in
              > there, except in the cases that I already described. Making female Jagers
              > would simply never have occurred to these guys, any more than making
              > female soldiers would have.

              Who said anything about jagerising them to use them as soldiers.

              Jagerise the camp followers to lower their casulty rates [From what
              we've seen so far Jagers tend to be a little over enthusiastically
              violent.] and reduce the amount they slow your armies manuevers.

              And of course if Jagerhood is inheritable then they become self
              replicating, which has production cost advantages. Not quiet as
              efficient as Werewolves but you get problems with enemy survivors
              with them.

              Of course the above are mostly cost benefit analyses and I'm not too
              sure sparks are good at those. :)

              --
              Adam
            • Debbie
              ... I have been wondering what those boys do for recreation. I hang out with *way* too many slashers and the images -- Some Things Man Was Not Meant To
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 10, 2003
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                >Jagerise the camp followers to lower their casulty rates [From what
                >we've seen so far Jagers tend to be a little over enthusiastically
                >violent.] and reduce the amount they slow your armies manuevers.

                I have been wondering what those boys do for recreation. I hang out with
                *way* too many slashers and the images -- Some Things Man Was Not Meant To
                Know.....

                >And of course if Jagerhood is inheritable then they become self
                >replicating, which has production cost advantages. Not quiet as
                >efficient as Werewolves but you get problems with enemy survivors
                >with them.

                Yes, but it causes those pesky Conflict Of Interest problems.

                >Of course the above are mostly cost benefit analyses and I'm not too
                >sure sparks are good at those. :)
                >
                >--
                >Adam

                Oh they're good at them all right, but do you really want to know what
                values they assign *you*?

                Debbie

                http://www.brigidsforge.com
                Original sterling Gothic and Pagan jewelry

                "To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
                are to stand by the president right or wrong is not only unpatriotic and
                servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Teddy Roosevelt


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