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3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual Misconduct

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  • Rick
    Hi everyone; Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here. I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not sure I like it. I
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
      Hi everyone;

      Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.

      I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
      sure I like it.

      I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
      true, lasting life partner.

      There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
      not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
      many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
      month. We first met in 2001.

      However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
      not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
      say about Gay unions and Gay sex.

      One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
      attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
      constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the other
      reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
      condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
      the here and now, since time eternal.

      So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
      share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
      relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.

      Thanks for taking time to read this post.

      RickBangkok
      now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
      in prison)
    • normand joly
      ... My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men , was not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am a member of, the
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
        ---Dear Rick,
        My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men , was
        not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am a
        member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100 postings,
        by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of being in
        love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is that
        the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your life,your
        karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real compassion
        and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
        As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done between
        2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for instance.

        In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they are
        sentient beings.

        You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will share
        and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.

        With Metta and Karuna
        _/\_
        Dragon

        p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay village.
        Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.




        In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi everyone;
        >
        > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
        >
        > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
        > sure I like it.
        >
        > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
        > true, lasting life partner.
        >
        > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
        > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
        > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
        > month. We first met in 2001.
        >
        > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
        > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
        > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
        >
        > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
        > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
        > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
        other
        > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
        > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
        > the here and now, since time eternal.
        >
        > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
        > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
        > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
        >
        > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
        >
        > RickBangkok
        > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
        > in prison)
        >
      • Jennifer
        3rd Precept: Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and integrity of
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
          3rd Precept:

          "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to
          cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
          integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
          determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a long-
          term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I am
          determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others. I
          will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse
          and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
          misconduct."

          Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are referring
          to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable in
          the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment to
          each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.

          Maybe I am missing something?



          --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
          <normand.joly@...> wrote:
          >
          > ---Dear Rick,
          > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men , was
          > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am a
          > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
          postings,
          > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of being
          in
          > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is
          that
          > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
          life,your
          > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
          compassion
          > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
          > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
          between
          > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for instance.
          >
          > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they are
          > sentient beings.
          >
          > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will share
          > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
          >
          > With Metta and Karuna
          > _/\_
          > Dragon
          >
          > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay village.
          > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi everyone;
          > >
          > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
          > >
          > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
          > > sure I like it.
          > >
          > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found
          a
          > > true, lasting life partner.
          > >
          > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
          > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by
          for
          > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later
          this
          > > month. We first met in 2001.
          > >
          > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
          > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
          > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
          > >
          > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
          > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
          > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
          > other
          > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
          > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet
          in
          > > the here and now, since time eternal.
          > >
          > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
          > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think
          in
          > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
          > >
          > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
          > >
          > > RickBangkok
          > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
          years
          > > in prison)
          > >
          >
        • brendafaye2819
          ... to ... long- ... am ... others. I ... abuse ... in ... to ... was ... a ... being ... instance. ... are ... share ... village. ... not ... found ... do ...
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
            --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
            mommie@...> wrote:
            >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
            > 3rd Precept:
            >
            > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake
            to
            > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
            > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
            > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
            long-
            > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I
            am
            > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of
            others. I
            > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
            abuse
            > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
            > misconduct."
            >
            > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are referring
            > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable
            in
            > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment
            to
            > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
            >
            > Maybe I am missing something?
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
            > <normand.joly@> wrote:
            > >
            > > ---Dear Rick,
            > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men ,
            was
            > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am
            a
            > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
            > postings,
            > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of
            being
            > in
            > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is
            > that
            > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
            > life,your
            > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
            > compassion
            > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
            > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
            > between
            > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
            instance.
            > >
            > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they
            are
            > > sentient beings.
            > >
            > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will
            share
            > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
            > >
            > > With Metta and Karuna
            > > _/\_
            > > Dragon
            > >
            > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay
            village.
            > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@>
            > > wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi everyone;
            > > >
            > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
            > > >
            > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am
            not
            > > > sure I like it.
            > > >
            > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
            found
            > a
            > > > true, lasting life partner.
            > > >
            > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we
            do
            > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by
            > for
            > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later
            > this
            > > > month. We first met in 2001.
            > > >
            > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know
            that
            > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things
            to
            > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
            > > >
            > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
            > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
            legal
            > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
            > > other
            > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
            > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
            meet
            > in
            > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
            > > >
            > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom
            to
            > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you
            think
            > in
            > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
            > > >
            > > > RickBangkok
            > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
            > years
            > > > in prison)
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • brendafaye2819
            ... to ... long- ... am ... others. I ... abuse ... in ... to ... was ... a ... being ... instance. ... are ... share ... village. ... not ... found ... do ...
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
              --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
              mommie@...> wrote:
              >
              > 3rd Precept:
              >
              > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake
              to
              > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
              > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
              > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
              long-
              > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I
              am
              > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of
              others. I
              > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
              abuse
              > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
              > misconduct."
              >
              > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are referring
              > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable
              in
              > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment
              to
              > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
              >
              > Maybe I am missing something?
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
              > <normand.joly@> wrote:
              > >
              > > ---Dear Rick,
              > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men ,
              was
              > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am
              a
              > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
              > postings,
              > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of
              being
              > in
              > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is
              > that
              > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
              > life,your
              > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
              > compassion
              > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
              > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
              > between
              > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
              instance.
              > >
              > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they
              are
              > > sentient beings.
              > >
              > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will
              share
              > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
              > >
              > > With Metta and Karuna
              > > _/\_
              > > Dragon
              > >
              > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay
              village.
              > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi everyone;
              > > >
              > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
              > > >
              > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am
              not
              > > > sure I like it.
              > > >
              > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
              found
              > a
              > > > true, lasting life partner.
              > > >
              > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we
              do
              > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by
              > for
              > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later
              > this
              > > > month. We first met in 2001.
              > > >
              > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know
              that
              > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things
              to
              > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
              > > >
              > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
              > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
              legal
              > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
              > > other
              > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
              > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
              meet
              > in
              > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
              > > >
              > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom
              to
              > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you
              think
              > in
              > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
              > > >
              > > > RickBangkok
              > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
              > years
              > > > in prison)
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • Pamela
              Hi Rick!   It feels to me that you are allowing societal judgments affect you.  Release these negative voices in your head...Learn to accept these people for
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                Hi Rick!
                 
                It feels to me that you are allowing societal judgments affect you.  Release these negative voices in your head...Learn to accept these people for where they are in this earthy process and move past them.  They are choosing to live in the dark.
                 
                Also, about the sexual appetite....Did you know that having healthy ejaculations is what helps keep you from getting prostate cancer?  It's very true. But you can be self serving, instead of multiple partners, (I worry about all the diseases) until  you find that one special person that will spend their life with you.
                 
                I am a single, straight, woman, whose been told by people I'm on the higher end of the attractive scale, and I've been divorced since 1985.  I had a few relationships here and there and finally I went celibate for 8 years (woman can do that). Got into a relationship for 2 years and am now on my 4th year of celibacy.  I won't settle and I'm not someone who goes into sex casually (not that I think there is anything wrong w/it).  For me, I become emotionally attached when I have sex with someone so this is the reason I refrain from it.  Most men, these days, won't stick around for a true friendship to develop.  They want to hop on in and test those waters or they're out of here...which is why I'm still single.  But, through meditation I'm learning that I am whole without someone else in my life.  I feel, right now, like I'm better off.  You may want to try meditation to help you find your completeness within. Once you fall in love with yourself no telling what could happen...Namaste!  Pamela

                --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Rick <rickbangkok@...> wrote:
                From: Rick <rickbangkok@...>
                Subject: [giftoflovingkindness] 3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
                To: giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 4:03 AM

                Hi everyone;

                Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.

                I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
                sure I like it.

                I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
                true, lasting life partner.

                There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
                not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
                many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
                month. We first met in 2001.

                However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
                not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
                say about Gay unions and Gay sex.

                One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
                constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the other
                reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
                the here and now, since time eternal.

                So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
                share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
                relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.

                Thanks for taking time to read this post.

                RickBangkok
                now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
                in prison)


              • normand joly
                ... Dragon In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                  ---You are not.
                  Dragon



                  In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                  mommie@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > 3rd Precept:
                  >
                  > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to
                  > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
                  > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
                  > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
                  long-
                  > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I
                  am
                  > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others.
                  I
                  > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
                  abuse
                  > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
                  > misconduct."
                  >
                  > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are referring
                  > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable in
                  > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment
                  to
                  > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                  >
                  > Maybe I am missing something?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                  > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > ---Dear Rick,
                  > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men ,
                  was
                  > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am a
                  > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
                  > postings,
                  > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of being
                  > in
                  > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is
                  > that
                  > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
                  > life,your
                  > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
                  > compassion
                  > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                  > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
                  > between
                  > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
                  instance.
                  > >
                  > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they are
                  > > sentient beings.
                  > >
                  > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will
                  share
                  > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                  > >
                  > > With Metta and Karuna
                  > > _/\_
                  > > Dragon
                  > >
                  > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay village.
                  > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi everyone;
                  > > >
                  > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am
                  not
                  > > > sure I like it.
                  > > >
                  > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
                  found
                  > a
                  > > > true, lasting life partner.
                  > > >
                  > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we
                  do
                  > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by
                  > for
                  > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later
                  > this
                  > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                  > > >
                  > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know
                  that
                  > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things
                  to
                  > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                  > > >
                  > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                  > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
                  legal
                  > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
                  > > other
                  > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                  > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
                  meet
                  > in
                  > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                  > > >
                  > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom
                  to
                  > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think
                  > in
                  > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                  > > >
                  > > > RickBangkok
                  > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
                  > years
                  > > > in prison)
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • normand joly
                  ... the web. Dragon s comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy Normand
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                    ---Jennifer wrote:you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on
                    the web.
                    Dragon's comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next
                    election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy
                    Normand Joly,totally insane







                    In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "brendafaye2819"
                    <brendafaye2819@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                    > mommie@> wrote:
                    > >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
                    > > 3rd Precept:
                    > >
                    > > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake
                    > to
                    > > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
                    > > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
                    > > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
                    > long-
                    > > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others,
                    I
                    > am
                    > > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of
                    > others. I
                    > > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
                    > abuse
                    > > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
                    > > misconduct."
                    > >
                    > > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are
                    referring
                    > > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable
                    > in
                    > > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment
                    > to
                    > > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                    > >
                    > > Maybe I am missing something?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                    > > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > ---Dear Rick,
                    > > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men ,
                    > was
                    > > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am
                    > a
                    > > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
                    > > postings,
                    > > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of
                    > being
                    > > in
                    > > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad
                    karma.Is
                    > > that
                    > > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
                    > > life,your
                    > > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
                    > > compassion
                    > > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                    > > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
                    > > between
                    > > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
                    > instance.
                    > > >
                    > > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they
                    > are
                    > > > sentient beings.
                    > > >
                    > > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will
                    > share
                    > > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                    > > >
                    > > > With Metta and Karuna
                    > > > _/\_
                    > > > Dragon
                    > > >
                    > > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay
                    > village.
                    > > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi everyone;
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am
                    > not
                    > > > > sure I like it.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
                    > found
                    > > a
                    > > > > true, lasting life partner.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but
                    we
                    > do
                    > > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes
                    by
                    > > for
                    > > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me
                    later
                    > > this
                    > > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know
                    > that
                    > > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful
                    things
                    > to
                    > > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                    > > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
                    > legal
                    > > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all
                    the
                    > > > other
                    > > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the
                    default
                    > > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
                    > meet
                    > > in
                    > > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom
                    > to
                    > > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you
                    > think
                    > > in
                    > > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > RickBangkok
                    > > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
                    > > years
                    > > > > in prison)
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Jennifer
                    That was not my comment. That comment was from BrandaFaye2819. I know that there are many kinds of Buddhists in the world and I accept them all as they are.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                      That was not my comment. That comment was from BrandaFaye2819. I
                      know that there are many kinds of Buddhists in the world and I accept
                      them all as they are. And NO I will not be voting for McCain in the
                      upcoming election. I probably am more offended than I should be, but
                      I am not that person that comment should be attributed to. I am at a
                      loss as for what else to say. I hope that people here on this list
                      will see that through this and my other postings. I need a cup of
                      tea.


                      --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                      <normand.joly@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > ---Jennifer wrote:you people are sick why you want to talk stupid
                      on
                      > the web.,
                      > Dragon's comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next
                      > election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy
                      > Normand Joly,totally insane
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "brendafaye2819"
                      > <brendafaye2819@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                      > > mommie@> wrote:
                      > > >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
                      > > > 3rd Precept:
                      > > >
                      > > > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I
                      undertake
                      > > to
                      > > > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety
                      and
                      > > > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
                      > > > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
                      > > long-
                      > > > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and
                      others,
                      > I
                      > > am
                      > > > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of
                      > > others. I
                      > > > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
                      > > abuse
                      > > > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
                      > > > misconduct."
                      > > >
                      > > > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are
                      > referring
                      > > > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be
                      acceptable
                      > > in
                      > > > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term
                      committment
                      > > to
                      > > > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                      > > >
                      > > > Maybe I am missing something?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                      > > > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > ---Dear Rick,
                      > > > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with
                      men ,
                      > > was
                      > > > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I
                      am
                      > > a
                      > > > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
                      > > > postings,
                      > > > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of
                      > > being
                      > > > in
                      > > > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad
                      > karma.Is
                      > > > that
                      > > > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
                      > > > life,your
                      > > > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
                      > > > compassion
                      > > > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                      > > > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
                      > > > between
                      > > > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
                      > > instance.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they
                      > > are
                      > > > > sentient beings.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you
                      will
                      > > share
                      > > > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > With Metta and Karuna
                      > > > > _/\_
                      > > > > Dragon
                      > > > >
                      > > > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay
                      > > village.
                      > > > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you
                      are.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick"
                      <rickbangkok@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi everyone;
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth
                      here.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I
                      am
                      > > not
                      > > > > > sure I like it.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
                      > > found
                      > > > a
                      > > > > > true, lasting life partner.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but
                      > we
                      > > do
                      > > > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes
                      > by
                      > > > for
                      > > > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me
                      > later
                      > > > this
                      > > > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I
                      know
                      > > that
                      > > > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful
                      > things
                      > > to
                      > > > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                      > > > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
                      > > legal
                      > > > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all
                      > the
                      > > > > other
                      > > > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the
                      > default
                      > > > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
                      > > meet
                      > > > in
                      > > > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and
                      wisdom
                      > > to
                      > > > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you
                      > > think
                      > > > in
                      > > > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > RickBangkok
                      > > > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by
                      2
                      > > > years
                      > > > > > in prison)
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Carl Beck
                      I don t usually talk about this subject because someone usually wants to punch my lights out if I say something out of mainstream. But, why not........ When I
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                        I don't usually talk about this subject because someone usually wants
                        to punch my lights out if I say something out of mainstream.  But, 
                        why not........

                        When I left my marriage I gave myself permission to do whatever I
                        wanted in the sexual arena.  All the injunctions, all of what other people
                        thought, all the baggage had to go.  It had to!  So I centered on dissolving
                        the injunctions that were written by people and I started dissolving concepts.
                        I went out raw and frightened.  I went places that today even I have a hard
                        time believing.  If there was an underworld I went there.  I probably drank too
                        much, but I would never be around drugs.  The really tricky part was dissolving
                        concepts in a concept-centric world.

                        We're given 3 options.  We can be gay, we can be straight, or, we can be
                        bisexual.  But, there is a 4th option.  We can just Be.  I lost a very dear friend
                        in NYC for making this statement.  He wanted to be something.  I wanted to 
                        be nothing.  

                        As I plodded through the mess I found myself in, one without the boundaries
                        provided by concepts, many things revealed themselves.  One was
                        that I probably should not have gone out on one trip where I left a note
                        on my kitchen table saying specifically where I was going in case I got
                        killed they would know who killed me.  (Good Lord!!)  Another of those things
                        was the "Third Precept" that someone posted about earlier.  I hadn't heard of
                        the 3rd precept, yet I know it to be true.  I think we all have the internal
                        ability to "know" and our mind capable of reading that internal message.
                        I think the problem arises when the mind, with all it's garbage, decides it's 
                        the boss of the heart.  The "Truth" cannot be known by the external world with
                        all it's injunctions and judgments.  But, the Truth will reveal itself if we
                        are listening to the Royal Self.   If we stop focusing on right and wrong, good
                        and bad, this and that, it's pretty amazing what can be heard in the silence.

                        Carl




                        On Sep 1, 2008, at 3:28 PM, normand joly wrote:

                        ---Jennifer wrote:you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on 
                        the web.
                        Dragon's comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next 
                        election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy
                        Normand Joly,totally insane

                        In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "brendafaye2819" 
                        <brendafaye2819@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                        > mommie@> wrote:
                        > >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
                        > > 3rd Precept:
                        > > 
                        > > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake 
                        > to 
                        > > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and 
                        > > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am 
                        > > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a 
                        > long- 
                        > > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, 
                        I 
                        > am 
                        > > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of 
                        > others. I 
                        > > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual 
                        > abuse 
                        > > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual 
                        > > misconduct." 
                        > > 
                        > > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are 
                        referring 
                        > > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable 
                        > in 
                        > > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment 
                        > to 
                        > > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                        > > 
                        > > Maybe I am missing something?
                        > > 
                        > > 
                        > > 
                        > > --- In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "normand joly" 
                        > > <normand.joly@ > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > ---Dear Rick,
                        > > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men , 
                        > was 
                        > > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am 
                        > a 
                        > > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100 
                        > > postings, 
                        > > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of 
                        > being 
                        > > in 
                        > > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad 
                        karma.Is 
                        > > that 
                        > > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your 
                        > > life,your 
                        > > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real 
                        > > compassion 
                        > > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                        > > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done 
                        > > between 
                        > > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for 
                        > instance.
                        > > > 
                        > > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they 
                        > are 
                        > > > sentient beings.
                        > > > 
                        > > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will 
                        > share
                        > > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                        > > > 
                        > > > With Metta and Karuna
                        > > > _/\_
                        > > > Dragon
                        > > > 
                        > > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay 
                        > village.
                        > > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
                        > > > 
                        > > > 
                        > > > 
                        > > > 
                        > > > In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@ > 
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi everyone;
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am 
                        > not 
                        > > > > sure I like it.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet 
                        > found 
                        > > a 
                        > > > > true, lasting life partner.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but 
                        we 
                        > do 
                        > > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes 
                        by 
                        > > for 
                        > > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me 
                        later 
                        > > this 
                        > > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know 
                        > that 
                        > > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful 
                        things 
                        > to 
                        > > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                        > > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given 
                        > legal 
                        > > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all 
                        the 
                        > > > other 
                        > > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the 
                        default 
                        > > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they 
                        > meet 
                        > > in 
                        > > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom 
                        > to 
                        > > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you 
                        > think 
                        > > in 
                        > > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                        > > > > 
                        > > > > RickBangkok
                        > > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 
                        > > years 
                        > > > > in prison)
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >


                      • normand joly
                        ... I apologise for misreadind the below comment. Dragon In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                          ---Dear Jennifer.
                          I apologise for misreadind the below comment.
                          Dragon



                          In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                          mommie@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > That was not my comment. That comment was from BrandaFaye2819. I
                          > know that there are many kinds of Buddhists in the world and I
                          accept
                          > them all as they are. And NO I will not be voting for McCain in
                          the
                          > upcoming election. I probably am more offended than I should be,
                          but
                          > I am not that person that comment should be attributed to. I am at
                          a
                          > loss as for what else to say. I hope that people here on this list
                          > will see that through this and my other postings. I need a cup of
                          > tea.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                          > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > ---Jennifer wrote:you people are sick why you want to talk stupid
                          > on
                          > > the web.,
                          > > Dragon's comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next
                          > > election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy
                          > > Normand Joly,totally insane
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "brendafaye2819"
                          > > <brendafaye2819@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer"
                          <connors-
                          > > > mommie@> wrote:
                          > > > >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
                          > > > > 3rd Precept:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I
                          > undertake
                          > > > to
                          > > > > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety
                          > and
                          > > > > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I
                          am
                          > > > > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and
                          a
                          > > > long-
                          > > > > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and
                          > others,
                          > > I
                          > > > am
                          > > > > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of
                          > > > others. I
                          > > > > will do everything in my power to protect children from
                          sexual
                          > > > abuse
                          > > > > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by
                          sexual
                          > > > > misconduct."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are
                          > > referring
                          > > > > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be
                          > acceptable
                          > > > in
                          > > > > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term
                          > committment
                          > > > to
                          > > > > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Maybe I am missing something?
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly"
                          > > > > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > ---Dear Rick,
                          > > > > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with
                          > men ,
                          > > > was
                          > > > > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha
                          I
                          > am
                          > > > a
                          > > > > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
                          > > > > postings,
                          > > > > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of
                          > > > being
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad
                          > > karma.Is
                          > > > > that
                          > > > > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
                          > > > > life,your
                          > > > > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
                          > > > > compassion
                          > > > > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including
                          humans.
                          > > > > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if
                          done
                          > > > > between
                          > > > > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
                          > > > instance.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals,
                          they
                          > > > are
                          > > > > > sentient beings.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you
                          > will
                          > > > share
                          > > > > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > With Metta and Karuna
                          > > > > > _/\_
                          > > > > > Dragon
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay
                          > > > village.
                          > > > > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you
                          > are.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick"
                          > <rickbangkok@>
                          > > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Hi everyone;
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth
                          > here.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I
                          > am
                          > > > not
                          > > > > > > sure I like it.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not
                          yet
                          > > > found
                          > > > > a
                          > > > > > > true, lasting life partner.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand,
                          but
                          > > we
                          > > > do
                          > > > > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that
                          goes
                          > > by
                          > > > > for
                          > > > > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me
                          > > later
                          > > > > this
                          > > > > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I
                          > know
                          > > > that
                          > > > > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful
                          > > things
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                          > > > > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs
                          given
                          > > > legal
                          > > > > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and
                          all
                          > > the
                          > > > > > other
                          > > > > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the
                          > > default
                          > > > > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men
                          they
                          > > > meet
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and
                          > wisdom
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you
                          > > > think
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > RickBangkok
                          > > > > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable
                          by
                          > 2
                          > > > > years
                          > > > > > > in prison)
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Jennifer
                          It is alright. It does appear that I made the comment since the comment appears right after my name, but not on the original reply.
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 1, 2008
                            It is alright. It does appear that I made the comment since the
                            comment appears right after my name, but not on the original reply.
                          • Tom McCloud
                            I disagree with you Dragon.  She, Ms. Jennifer, is missing something here no one else is harmed by your actions   It is my belief (100% Hectrosexual) that
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 2, 2008
                              I disagree with you Dragon.  She, Ms. Jennifer, is missing something here "no one else is harmed by your actions"  It is my belief (100% Hectrosexual) that those actions can be damaging to the socity has a whole...no different than one that has sexual relations with animals or dead people.

                              --- On Mon, 9/1/08, normand joly <normand.joly@...> wrote:
                              From: normand joly <normand.joly@...>
                              Subject: [giftoflovingkindness] Re: 3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual Misconduct
                              To: giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 4:23 PM

                              ---You are not.
                              Dragon

                              In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                              mommie@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > 3rd Precept:
                              >
                              > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake to
                              > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and
                              > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am
                              > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a
                              long-
                              > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, I
                              am
                              > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of others.
                              I
                              > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual
                              abuse
                              > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual
                              > misconduct."
                              >
                              > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are referring
                              > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable in
                              > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment
                              to
                              > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                              >
                              > Maybe I am missing something?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "normand joly"
                              > <normand.joly@ > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > ---Dear Rick,
                              > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men ,
                              was
                              > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am a
                              > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100
                              > postings,
                              > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of being
                              > in
                              > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad karma.Is
                              > that
                              > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your
                              > life,your
                              > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real
                              > compassion
                              > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                              > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done
                              > between
                              > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for
                              instance.
                              > >
                              > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they are
                              > > sentient beings.
                              > >
                              > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will
                              share
                              > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                              > >
                              > > With Metta and Karuna
                              > > _/\_
                              > > Dragon
                              > >
                              > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay village.
                              > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In giftoflovingkindnes s@yahoogroups. com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@ >
                              > > wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi everyone;
                              > > >
                              > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                              > > >
                              > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am
                              not
                              > > > sure I like it.
                              > > >
                              > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet
                              found
                              > a
                              > > > true, lasting life partner.
                              > > >
                              > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we
                              do
                              > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by
                              > for
                              > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later
                              > this
                              > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                              > > >
                              > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know
                              that
                              > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things
                              to
                              > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                              > > >
                              > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                              > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given
                              legal
                              > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
                              > > other
                              > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                              > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they
                              meet
                              > in
                              > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                              > > >
                              > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom
                              to
                              > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think
                              > in
                              > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                              > > >
                              > > > RickBangkok
                              > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2
                              > years
                              > > > in prison)
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >


                            • marthasgodschild
                              Hi Rick i am a friend of martha s. I am a gay Christian and I too have been thru this very delima. If you truly love this man you would save yourself for him
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 2, 2008
                                Hi Rick i am a friend of martha's. I am a gay Christian and I too
                                have been thru this very delima. If you truly love this man you
                                would save yourself for him so you would not get anything. like Pam
                                said materbating is healthy. Can get old but I find that reading
                                stories and fantisizing is freat too. But then only you know what is
                                right in your heart. You have to live with yourself. NO ONE has a
                                right to Jodge you.Only your GOD has that right.I personally did it
                                our of repect for the man I loved and my relationship.but then that
                                is me. My morales and my way of thinking. Good luck my Brother I
                                will keep you in my prayers. ---


                                In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, Pamela
                                <pblivingintheraw@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi Rick!
                                >  
                                > It feels to me that you are allowing societal judgments affect
                                you.  Release these negative voices in your head...Learn to accept
                                these people for where they are in this earthy process and move past
                                them.  They are choosing to live in the dark.
                                >  
                                > Also, about the sexual appetite....Did you know that having
                                healthy ejaculations is what helps keep you from getting prostate
                                cancer?  It's very true. But you can be self serving, instead of
                                multiple partners, (I worry about all the diseases) until  you find
                                that one special person that will spend their life with you.
                                >  
                                > I am a single, straight, woman, whose been told by people I'm on
                                the higher end of the attractive scale, and I've been divorced since
                                1985.  I had a few relationships here and there and finally I went
                                celibate for 8 years (woman can do that). Got into a relationship
                                for 2 years and am now on my 4th year of celibacy.  I won't settle
                                and I'm not someone who goes into sex casually (not that I think
                                there is anything wrong w/it).  For me, I become emotionally
                                attached when I have sex with someone so this is the reason I
                                refrain from it.  Most men, these days, won't stick around for a
                                true friendship to develop.  They want to hop on in and test those
                                waters or they're out of here...which is why I'm still single.  But,
                                through meditation I'm learning that I am whole without someone else
                                in my life.  I feel, right now, like I'm better off.  You may want
                                to try meditation to help you find your completeness within. Once
                                you fall in love with yourself no
                                > telling what could happen...Namaste!  Pamela
                                >
                                > --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Rick <rickbangkok@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > From: Rick <rickbangkok@...>
                                > Subject: [giftoflovingkindness] 3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual
                                Misconduct
                                > To: giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com
                                > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 4:03 AM
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi everyone;
                                >
                                > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                                >
                                > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
                                > sure I like it.
                                >
                                > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
                                > true, lasting life partner.
                                >
                                > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
                                > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
                                > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
                                > month. We first met in 2001.
                                >
                                > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
                                > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
                                > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                                >
                                > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                                > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
                                > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
                                other
                                > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                                > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
                                > the here and now, since time eternal.
                                >
                                > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
                                > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
                                > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                                >
                                > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                                >
                                > RickBangkok
                                > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
                                > in prison)
                                >
                              • minikusdiane
                                Carl, Your story fascinated me. If I read you correctly, it seems as if the outcome for you, turned out to be good, and that you figured out just to be who you
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 2, 2008
                                  Carl,
                                  Your story fascinated me. If I read you correctly, it seems as if the outcome for you, turned out to be good, and that you figured out just to be who you are.
                                  What intrigues me though, is that you felt the need to dissolve concepts, yet you said you found yourself in a mess. Do you feel we need boundries? Or is what you are saying in essence is to be true to yourself?

                                   
                                  On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Carl Beck <carl.beck@...> wrote:

                                  I don't usually talk about this subject because someone usually wants

                                  to punch my lights out if I say something out of mainstream.  But, 
                                  why not........

                                  When I left my marriage I gave myself permission to do whatever I
                                  wanted in the sexual arena.  All the injunctions, all of what other people
                                  thought, all the baggage had to go.  It had to!  So I centered on dissolving
                                  the injunctions that were written by people and I started dissolving concepts.
                                  I went out raw and frightened.  I went places that today even I have a hard
                                  time believing.  If there was an underworld I went there.  I probably drank too
                                  much, but I would never be around drugs.  The really tricky part was dissolving
                                  concepts in a concept-centric world.

                                  We're given 3 options.  We can be gay, we can be straight, or, we can be
                                  bisexual.  But, there is a 4th option.  We can just Be.  I lost a very dear friend
                                  in NYC for making this statement.  He wanted to be something.  I wanted to 
                                  be nothing.  

                                  As I plodded through the mess I found myself in, one without the boundaries
                                  provided by concepts, many things revealed themselves.  One was
                                  that I probably should not have gone out on one trip where I left a note
                                  on my kitchen table saying specifically where I was going in case I got
                                  killed they would know who killed me.  (Good Lord!!)  Another of those things
                                  was the "Third Precept" that someone posted about earlier.  I hadn't heard of
                                  the 3rd precept, yet I know it to be true.  I think we all have the internal
                                  ability to "know" and our mind capable of reading that internal message.
                                  I think the problem arises when the mind, with all it's garbage, decides it's 
                                  the boss of the heart.  The "Truth" cannot be known by the external world with
                                  all it's injunctions and judgments.  But, the Truth will reveal itself if we
                                  are listening to the Royal Self.   If we stop focusing on right and wrong, good
                                  and bad, this and that, it's pretty amazing what can be heard in the silence.

                                  Carl




                                  On Sep 1, 2008, at 3:28 PM, normand joly wrote:

                                  ---Jennifer wrote:you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on 
                                  the web.
                                  Dragon's comment: I am sure you will vote for Mc Cain at the next 
                                  election,and do you know ther are black Buddhists? Oh myyyyy
                                  Normand Joly,totally insane

                                  In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "brendafaye2819" 
                                  <brendafaye2819@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Jennifer" <connors-
                                  > mommie@> wrote:
                                  > >you people are sick why you want to talk stupid on the web
                                  > > 3rd Precept:
                                  > > 
                                  > > "Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I undertake 
                                  > to 
                                  > > cultivate responsibility and learn ways to protect the safety and 
                                  > > integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. I am 
                                  > > determined not to engage in sexual relations without love and a 
                                  > long- 
                                  > > term commitment. To preserve the happiness of myself and others, 
                                  I 
                                  > am 
                                  > > determined to respect my commitments and the commitments of 
                                  > others. I 
                                  > > will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual 
                                  > abuse 
                                  > > and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual 
                                  > > misconduct." 
                                  > > 
                                  > > Am I missing the reference to homosexuality that you are 
                                  referring 
                                  > > to? It seems to me that homosexuality would still be acceptable 
                                  > in 
                                  > > the 3rd precept as long as there is love, a long term committment 
                                  > to 
                                  > > each other and no-one else is harmed by your actions.
                                  > > 
                                  > > Maybe I am missing something?
                                  > > 
                                  > > 
                                  > > 
                                  > > --- In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "normand joly" 
                                  > > <normand.joly@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > ---Dear Rick,
                                  > > > My 2 brothers were gay.I have tried sexual relations with men , 
                                  > was 
                                  > > > not my cup of tea.However Lady boys were.In another Sangha I am 
                                  > a 
                                  > > > member of, the subject of sex came up. There were about 100 
                                  > > postings, 
                                  > > > by Bhikkus, Masters, Lamas etc.I beleive the only danger of 
                                  > being 
                                  > > in 
                                  > > > love is the attachments and cravings it does,ensues bad 
                                  karma.Is 
                                  > > that 
                                  > > > the price you are ready to pay? You alone decide.It is your 
                                  > > life,your 
                                  > > > karma,no one elses.Good karma can be amassed through real 
                                  > > compassion 
                                  > > > and loving kindness for all sentient beings,including humans.
                                  > > > As what I have read about sex in Buddhism it is o.k. if done 
                                  > > between 
                                  > > > 2 people that share something.May it be spiritual,Love for 
                                  > instance.
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > In nature homosexuality exists in many kinds of animals, they 
                                  > are 
                                  > > > sentient beings.
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > You and you alone can decide the price of that moment you will 
                                  > share
                                  > > > and you alone will decide the price you are ready to pay.
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > With Metta and Karuna
                                  > > > _/\_
                                  > > > Dragon
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > p.s. I live close to Montreal Canada where there is a gay 
                                  > village.
                                  > > > Being gay is not a sickness , nor a desease. It is who you are.
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > 
                                  > > > In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, "Rick" <rickbangkok@> 
                                  > > > wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hi everyone;
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am 
                                  > not 
                                  > > > > sure I like it.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet 
                                  > found 
                                  > > a 
                                  > > > > true, lasting life partner.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but 
                                  we 
                                  > do 
                                  > > > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes 
                                  by 
                                  > > for 
                                  > > > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me 
                                  later 
                                  > > this 
                                  > > > > month. We first met in 2001.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know 
                                  > that 
                                  > > > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful 
                                  things 
                                  > to 
                                  > > > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                                  > > > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given 
                                  > legal 
                                  > > > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all 
                                  the 
                                  > > > other 
                                  > > > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the 
                                  default 
                                  > > > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they 
                                  > meet 
                                  > > in 
                                  > > > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom 
                                  > to 
                                  > > > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you 
                                  > think 
                                  > > in 
                                  > > > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                                  > > > > 
                                  > > > > RickBangkok
                                  > > > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 
                                  > > years 
                                  > > > > in prison)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >



                                • Carl Beck
                                  ... Diane, Yes, dissolving of concepts, including self identification, looks a lot like a mess:-) Disorientation goes hand in hand with it, at least for me.
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 2, 2008

                                    On Sep 2, 2008, at 4:01 PM, minikusdiane wrote:

                                    Carl,
                                    Your story fascinated me. If I read you correctly, it seems as if the outcome for you, turned out to be good, and that you figured out just to be who you are.
                                    What intrigues me though, is that you felt the need to dissolve concepts, yet you said you found yourself in a mess. Do you feel we need boundries? Or is what you are saying in essence is to be true to yourself?

                                    Diane,

                                    Yes, dissolving of concepts, including self identification, looks a lot like a mess:-)
                                    Disorientation goes hand in hand with it, at least for me.  It opens up a whole
                                    new world, one that can be frightening and on more than a few occasions I have
                                    felt crazy.  This is not something I do lightly, but I think I have to do it.  The payoffs
                                    have been amazing.

                                    I don't know if we need boundaries.  I think a good case can be made that we do.
                                    But, I also think it comes at a cost.  A few months ago I had an awesome yoga
                                    session.  Ordinarily it would have  been a difficult session, but I sailed through it
                                    and managed to get into a space I had never been.  I had no sense of time.  I was
                                    puzzled by how soon it was over.  I was assured we hadn't left anything out and that
                                    we hadn't started late.  It was puzzling.  When I got home I stood on my front porch
                                    and looked at a tree across the street.  There was no distance between the tree and
                                    myself.  We were in the same space.  Right away I figured there was something
                                    wrong with me, started conceptual thinking, and the distance came back.  Should
                                    that ever happen again I will make no effort to think about it, and see where it takes
                                    me.  

                                    I don't think my trip is so much about being true to myself, as it is about finding out
                                    who that is.  I am not who I thought I was, which is the same as I am not who I was
                                    told I am.  Sometimes I guess one has to just jump out of the plane without a parachute.

                                    Carl

                                  • monishaa
                                    Hi Rick, I am a single parent and i have been celibate for a long time too as pamela wrote. it is difficult to have casual relationships and pass time becuase
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Sep 4, 2008

                                      Hi Rick,

                                      I am a single parent and i have been celibate for a long time too as pamela wrote. it is difficult to have casual relationships and pass time becuase like her i get emotionally involved too. relationships that hurt are meaningless and cause more conflict and work to get out of and it is better to wait for a time when one is emotionally ready and in tune with the partner is what i feel personally for myself. if the partner is one with you and committed then it makes sense.

                                      masturbation is healthy and releases pent up enegries so it is in consonant with being natural. except if it becomes obsessive then possibly it can create issues. also one needs to be careful about diseases with casual sex.

                                      yoga, pranayams and taichi and other energy exercises which are from the alternative sphere take the mind off the needs while rechannelising and redistributing the pent up energies in a healthy manner. with the added bonus of better health. but masturbation from time to time is not a problem at all. 

                                      like pam says meditation is great for feeling complete.

                                      namaste

                                      monisha


                                      On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 marthasgodschild wrote :

                                      >Hi Rick i am a friend of martha's. I am a gay Christian and I too
                                      >have been thru this very delima. If you truly love this man you
                                      >would save yourself for him so you would not get anything. like Pam
                                      >said materbating is healthy. Can get old but I find that reading
                                      >stories and fantisizing is freat too. But then only you know what is
                                      >right in your heart. You have to live with yourself. NO ONE has a
                                      >right to Jodge you.Only your GOD has that right.I personally did it
                                      >our of repect for the man I loved and my relationship.but then that
                                      >is me. My morales and my way of thinking. Good luck my Brother I
                                      >will keep you in my prayers. ---
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >  In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, Pamela
                                      ><pblivingintheraw@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi Rick!
                                      > >
                                      > > It feels to me that you are allowing societal judgments affect
                                      >you.  Release these negative voices in your head...Learn to accept
                                      >these people for where they are in this earthy process and move past
                                      >them.  They are choosing to live in the dark.
                                      > >
                                      > > Also, about the sexual appetite....Did you know that having
                                      >healthy ejaculations is what helps keep you from getting prostate
                                      >cancer?  It's very true. But you can be self serving, instead of
                                      >multiple partners, (I worry about all the diseases) until  you find
                                      >that one special person that will spend their life with you.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am a single, straight, woman, whose been told by people I'm on
                                      >the higher end of the attractive scale, and I've been divorced since
                                      >1985.  I had a few relationships here and there and finally I went
                                      >celibate for 8 years (woman can do that). Got into a relationship
                                      >for 2 years and am now on my 4th year of celibacy.  I won't settle
                                      >and I'm not someone who goes into sex casually (not that I think
                                      >there is anything wrong w/it).  For me, I become emotionally
                                      >attached when I have sex with someone so this is the reason I
                                      >refrain from it.  Most men, these days, won't stick around for a
                                      >true friendship to develop.  They want to hop on in and test those
                                      >waters or they're out of here...which is why I'm still single.  But,
                                      >through meditation I'm learning that I am whole without someone else
                                      >in my life.  I feel, right now, like I'm better off.  You may want
                                      >to try meditation to help you find your completeness within. Once
                                      >you fall in love with yourself no
                                      > >  telling what could happen...Namaste!  Pamela
                                      > >
                                      > > --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Rick <rickbangkok@...> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > From: Rick <rickbangkok@...>
                                      > > Subject: [giftoflovingkindness] 3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual
                                      >Misconduct
                                      > > To: giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 4:03 AM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi everyone;
                                      > >
                                      > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                                      > >
                                      > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
                                      > > sure I like it.
                                      > >
                                      > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
                                      > > true, lasting life partner.
                                      > >
                                      > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
                                      > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
                                      > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
                                      > > month. We first met in 2001.
                                      > >
                                      > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
                                      > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
                                      > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                                      > >
                                      > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                                      > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
                                      > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
                                      >other
                                      > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                                      > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
                                      > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                                      > >
                                      > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
                                      > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
                                      > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                                      > >
                                      > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                                      > >
                                      > > RickBangkok
                                      > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
                                      > > in prison)
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >



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                                    • monishaa
                                      Hi Rick, I am a single parent and i have been celibate for a long time too as pamela wrote. it is difficult to have casual relationships and pass time becuase
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Sep 4, 2008

                                        Hi Rick,

                                        I am a single parent and i have been celibate for a long time too as pamela wrote. it is difficult to have casual relationships and pass time becuase like her i get emotionally involved too. relationships that hurt are meaningless and cause more conflict and work to get out of and it is better to wait for a time when one is emotionally ready and in tune with the partner is what i feel personally for myself. if the partner is one with you and committed then it makes sense.

                                        masturbation is healthy and releases pent up enegries so it is in consonant with being natural. except if it becomes obsessive then possibly it can create issues. also one needs to be careful about diseases with casual sex.

                                        yoga, pranayams and taichi and other energy exercises which are from the alternative sphere take the mind off the needs while rechannelising and redistributing the pent up energies in a healthy manner. with the added bonus of better health. but masturbation from time to time is not a problem at all. 

                                        like pam says meditation is great for feeling complete.

                                        namaste

                                        monisha


                                        On Tue, 02 Sep 2008 marthasgodschild wrote :

                                        >Hi Rick i am a friend of martha's. I am a gay Christian and I too
                                        >have been thru this very delima. If you truly love this man you
                                        >would save yourself for him so you would not get anything. like Pam
                                        >said materbating is healthy. Can get old but I find that reading
                                        >stories and fantisizing is freat too. But then only you know what is
                                        >right in your heart. You have to live with yourself. NO ONE has a
                                        >right to Jodge you.Only your GOD has that right.I personally did it
                                        >our of repect for the man I loved and my relationship.but then that
                                        >is me. My morales and my way of thinking. Good luck my Brother I
                                        >will keep you in my prayers. ---
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >  In giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com, Pamela
                                        ><pblivingintheraw@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi Rick!
                                        > >
                                        > > It feels to me that you are allowing societal judgments affect
                                        >you.  Release these negative voices in your head...Learn to accept
                                        >these people for where they are in this earthy process and move past
                                        >them.  They are choosing to live in the dark.
                                        > >
                                        > > Also, about the sexual appetite....Did you know that having
                                        >healthy ejaculations is what helps keep you from getting prostate
                                        >cancer?  It's very true. But you can be self serving, instead of
                                        >multiple partners, (I worry about all the diseases) until  you find
                                        >that one special person that will spend their life with you.
                                        > >
                                        > > I am a single, straight, woman, whose been told by people I'm on
                                        >the higher end of the attractive scale, and I've been divorced since
                                        >1985.  I had a few relationships here and there and finally I went
                                        >celibate for 8 years (woman can do that). Got into a relationship
                                        >for 2 years and am now on my 4th year of celibacy.  I won't settle
                                        >and I'm not someone who goes into sex casually (not that I think
                                        >there is anything wrong w/it).  For me, I become emotionally
                                        >attached when I have sex with someone so this is the reason I
                                        >refrain from it.  Most men, these days, won't stick around for a
                                        >true friendship to develop.  They want to hop on in and test those
                                        >waters or they're out of here...which is why I'm still single.  But,
                                        >through meditation I'm learning that I am whole without someone else
                                        >in my life.  I feel, right now, like I'm better off.  You may want
                                        >to try meditation to help you find your completeness within. Once
                                        >you fall in love with yourself no
                                        > >  telling what could happen...Namaste!  Pamela
                                        > >
                                        > > --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Rick <rickbangkok@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > From: Rick <rickbangkok@...>
                                        > > Subject: [giftoflovingkindness] 3rd Precept: Refrain from Sexual
                                        >Misconduct
                                        > > To: giftoflovingkindness@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 4:03 AM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Hi everyone;
                                        > >
                                        > > Well, I am posting this topic because I need some growth here.
                                        > >
                                        > > I am at an age where my sexual behavior is changing and I am not
                                        > > sure I like it.
                                        > >
                                        > > I know that I am a "hopeless" romantic, but I have not yet found a
                                        > > true, lasting life partner.
                                        > >
                                        > > There is one guy who is very special to me in Thailand, but we do
                                        > > not see each other much. But, there is not a day that goes by for
                                        > > many years that I do not think of him. He will visit me later this
                                        > > month. We first met in 2001.
                                        > >
                                        > > However, my sexual behavior is not that of a "monk". I know that
                                        > > not so far back the Dali Lama had some less than joyful things to
                                        > > say about Gay unions and Gay sex.
                                        > >
                                        > > One clinical writer who is gay, has coined a term "micro-
                                        > > attachments" for what Gay men do to meet their needs given legal
                                        > > constraints, visas, job transfers, parents, wives, and all the
                                        >other
                                        > > reasons/excuses for a lack of monogamy (if that is the default
                                        > > condition for Gay life). Gay men make do with the men they meet in
                                        > > the here and now, since time eternal.
                                        > >
                                        > > So, if you feel you have some experience, strength and wisdom to
                                        > > share I am open minded here. Please let me know what you think in
                                        > > relating this post to Buddhist teachings and knowledge.
                                        > >
                                        > > Thanks for taking time to read this post.
                                        > >
                                        > > RickBangkok
                                        > > now in Singapore (where being Gay is illegal punishable by 2 years
                                        > > in prison)
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >



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