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Re Devalued Stock in NuTopia

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  • sunstorm_pilot
    Not a crime, just unwise. The real impact of falling stock is in the wge packet. When the colony was first founded the PAC was established (personal allocation
    Message 1 of 14 , Mar 1, 2004
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      Not a crime, just unwise. The real impact of falling stock is in the
      wge packet. When the colony was first founded the PAC was established
      (personal allocation chit), which gave one man enough food to survive
      for one day. the PAC, in abstract form, is the underlying basis of
      the economy in modern NuTopia. Each company issues it's own money to
      pay staff, bills, etc (like 'truck' money in the 19th century), but
      the value of the 'daily' monies shifts against the PAC, depending
      upon how well that corp. is doing on the share wall. If your company
      does badly, you get paid money that will buy you less. In corporate
      feudalism this means that workers race out and buy their own
      companies goods when the share price slips... an incentive to both
      work hard and to consume well.

      As to me and the world, you are very kind, but as you may have
      noticed I model much of the horror on slightly exagerated things that
      have actually happened... the authors of the horror is really
      history - I simply bolt the bits together in a way that interests me!

      Garrick.

      --- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "habarakhe4" <theophilus88@h...>
      wrote:
      > --- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "garrickfincham"
      > <garrickfincham@h...> wrote:
      > > People don't behave exactly, but the 'Big Five' companies issue
      > their
      > > own law (the justice system is thus very slim), run their own
      > > estates, administer parts of NuTopia, like medieval barons and
      > their
      > > estates. They are subordinate to The Order, and are kept
      > subordinate,
      > > because The Order control The Barriers (without which life cannot
      > > survive on NuTopia). The Central Authority (nominally the World
      > > Government) is very weak, like the English Kings in the period of
      > the
      > > Barons, or like the UN Secretary General in the face of the five
      > > permenant mebers of the security council, and often perfoms a
      > > brokerage role between the five, rather than actually governing.
      > >
      > > There is little recourse when a Big Five player squeezes a small
      > one,
      > > and most small players will actually be controled, albeit
      > indirectly,
      > > by a Big Five player. Note that Fyddle-Wyth-It were owned by a
      > > holding company, largely controled by ComCon (a big five
      company).
      > > The small companyies are a a battle field, a way in which the big
      > > five can fight each other, rival each other, by proxy. Several
      > times
      > > in NuTopia's history (see the history under World Data on the
      > > website) this proxy system has broken down and resulted in all
      out
      > > war between Big Five companies.
      > >
      > > Slavery is an interesting issue. The impressed labour is
      > > concentraited in key secure facilities of maximum security
      (Purity
      > > Springs and the southern watermines are the most obvious
      example).
      > > Numbers of impressed labourers are actually small - company's
      > prefere
      > > to keep their work force free to consume the goods that they
      > produce,
      > > and it is likley that the Fyddle-Wyth-It work force will be
      > > emaniciapted after a few years work for free. Of course there are
      > > always escapees, or Maroon communities, as they were known during
      > the
      > > period of European/American slavery. In the short stories (House
      of
      > > Robot Ginger Bread/Down on Paradise Farm in particular) that is
      > > mention of people/talking animals that live beyond the bounds of
      > > civilised society in the Red Mountains (Paradise Quadrant), and
      in
      > > the Southern Desert. Escaped human labourers hide out here, and
      > have
      > > formed their own subversive communities. The real slaves of this
      > > world are, of course, the Robots, and Romours of any resistance
      to
      > > authority are hotly denied by The Order.
      > >
      > > Education is an interesting one... everyone is educated first by
      > the
      > > state, then by their company, and everyone gets A grades in
      > > everything. The qualifications are, of course, worthless, except
      in
      > > that they teach the fundiments of Corporate Feudalism and train
      you
      > > for the job the state has in mind for you. At 14 you are
      allocated
      > to
      > > a company which then takes over your training which it highly
      > > vocational. Leaders, Corporate Executives, Politico's are all
      > > educated in a seperate system in Corporellion, the details of
      which
      > > are obscure...
      >
      > I can never think of anything to say about NuTopia, but I am
      > continually impressed (by you) and horrified (by the society).
      >
      > So, it is a crime on NuTopia to hold devalued stock?
      >
      > <snip>
    • Heads Up Now
      sunstorm_pilot wrote... ... Strikes me that there are two serious problems in NuTopia. There s no frontier and the means of productions are locked out of the
      Message 2 of 14 , Mar 2, 2004
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        sunstorm_pilot wrote...

        > Not a crime, just unwise. The real impact of falling stock is in the
        > wge packet. When the colony was first founded the PAC was established
        > (personal allocation chit), which gave one man enough food to survive
        > for one day. the PAC, in abstract form, is the underlying basis of
        > the economy in modern NuTopia. Each company issues it's own money to
        > pay staff, bills, etc (like 'truck' money in the 19th century), but
        > the value of the 'daily' monies shifts against the PAC, depending
        > upon how well that corp. is doing on the share wall. If your company
        > does badly, you get paid money that will buy you less. In corporate
        > feudalism this means that workers race out and buy their own
        > companies goods when the share price slips... an incentive to both
        > work hard and to consume well.
        Strikes me that there are two serious problems in NuTopia. There's no
        frontier and the means of productions are locked out of the hands of anyone
        that wants them. I mean how hard is it to start up your own company?

        > As to me and the world, you are very kind, but as you may have
        > noticed I model much of the horror on slightly exagerated things that
        > have actually happened... the authors of the horror is really
        > history - I simply bolt the bits together in a way that interests me!
        Unfortunately all too true. History is filled with much worse than NuTopia.
        What makes this seem so horrifying is that you write well enough to allow the
        readers to identify with the people and events. You hit close enough to home,
        to Real Life, that we can see just a bit of ourselves in it and that's a rather
        uncomfortable thing considering what you are writing about. ;)



        Stephen
      • sunstorm_pilot
        There is a frontier (just not well discussed as yet). The world is only about a third settled, and the Central Farming belt is expanding to the south... so
        Message 3 of 14 , Mar 2, 2004
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          There is a frontier (just not well discussed as yet). The world is
          only about a third settled, and the Central Farming belt is expanding
          to the south... so those wishing to work for themselves do what the
          wild westeners did, and 'trek' south to set up small farms, somethign
          which is slowly filling up the gaps between cities. The world is
          growing, so the principal settlements and Thorus Tracks are like a
          skeletal network that is gradualy fleshing out. The Quadrants
          are 'Corporation Run', and areas of blank land do have company claims
          registered against them, but the rent for setting up small farms is
          minimal, to encourage land develpoment. A generation down the line,
          of course, (as has happened already in the northern parts of the
          belt) with the farms established, company control becomes tighter,
          something which encourages many farmer's sons to make the trek south
          and increase the area under settlement...

          As to starting our own company, that is an interesting idea, and as
          yet, I've no idea how you would do it, or even if you were allowed...
          I'll mull that over!

          Garrick

          --- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "Heads Up Now" <HeadsUpNow@w...>
          wrote:
          > sunstorm_pilot wrote...
          >
          > > Not a crime, just unwise. The real impact of falling stock is in
          the
          > > wge packet. When the colony was first founded the PAC was
          established
          > > (personal allocation chit), which gave one man enough food to
          survive
          > > for one day. the PAC, in abstract form, is the underlying basis of
          > > the economy in modern NuTopia. Each company issues it's own money
          to
          > > pay staff, bills, etc (like 'truck' money in the 19th century),
          but
          > > the value of the 'daily' monies shifts against the PAC, depending
          > > upon how well that corp. is doing on the share wall. If your
          company
          > > does badly, you get paid money that will buy you less. In
          corporate
          > > feudalism this means that workers race out and buy their own
          > > companies goods when the share price slips... an incentive to both
          > > work hard and to consume well.
          > Strikes me that there are two serious problems in NuTopia.
          There's no
          > frontier and the means of productions are locked out of the hands
          of anyone
          > that wants them. I mean how hard is it to start up your own
          company?
          >
          > > As to me and the world, you are very kind, but as you may have
          > > noticed I model much of the horror on slightly exagerated things
          that
          > > have actually happened... the authors of the horror is really
          > > history - I simply bolt the bits together in a way that interests
          me!
          > Unfortunately all too true. History is filled with much
          worse than NuTopia.
          > What makes this seem so horrifying is that you write well enough to
          allow the
          > readers to identify with the people and events. You hit close
          enough to home,
          > to Real Life, that we can see just a bit of ourselves in it and
          that's a rather
          > uncomfortable thing considering what you are writing about. ;)
          >
          >
          >
          > Stephen
        • Heads Up Now
          ... Uhm... Why haven t something like granges, farmer s cooperatives or the like emerged to counter this? That s the natural economic response to this sort of
          Message 4 of 14 , Mar 2, 2004
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            > There is a frontier (just not well discussed as yet). The world is
            > only about a third settled, and the Central Farming belt is expanding
            > to the south... so those wishing to work for themselves do what the
            > wild westeners did, and 'trek' south to set up small farms, somethign
            > which is slowly filling up the gaps between cities. The world is
            > growing, so the principal settlements and Thorus Tracks are like a
            > skeletal network that is gradualy fleshing out. The Quadrants
            > are 'Corporation Run', and areas of blank land do have company claims
            > registered against them, but the rent for setting up small farms is
            > minimal, to encourage land develpoment. A generation down the line,
            > of course, (as has happened already in the northern parts of the
            > belt) with the farms established, company control becomes tighter,
            > something which encourages many farmer's sons to make the trek south
            > and increase the area under settlement...
            Uhm... Why haven't something like granges, farmer's cooperatives or the like
            emerged to counter this? That's the natural economic response to this sort of
            thing, at least until big money rewrites the laws to crush these folks. Which
            in turn would create LOTS of political unrest. After all the farmers do grow
            the food that everyone else eats, sure you can send the troops in to sieze this
            season's harvest. Stalin did that, then the NEXT season the farmers just
            didn't grow enough food to feed the nation - we know this because we had to
            ship the Soviets food in the middle of the Second World War in the teeth of the
            German U-boat packs to help keep them in the war.
            So... How have your farmers been handling the attempts of the big corporations
            to abscond or otherwise legally/financially steal their life's work?

            > As to starting our own company, that is an interesting idea, and as
            > yet, I've no idea how you would do it, or even if you were allowed...
            > I'll mull that over!
            Well they can't have started with all the companies that are currently in
            place, though it could well be that things have evolved to make it ever harder
            to start a new company as the years have gone by. Still, there will always be
            those who have the impulse and urge to do a startup company.



            Stephen
          • sunstorm_pilot
            No idea why such combines/co-operatives have not emerged... perhaps they have, or should. The way I try to work with all aspects of the world is by introducing
            Message 5 of 14 , Mar 3, 2004
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              No idea why such combines/co-operatives have not emerged... perhaps
              they have, or should. The way I try to work with all aspects of the
              world is by introducing variety (no solution or response to any
              situation is every applied 100% cross the board, and world where 'x
              always happens in circumstance y' always seem a little artificial to
              me). I work form the stand point that reality is complex. What this
              means in terms of farming is that doubtless there are some co-
              operatives, but there are also some farmers tightly tied into a
              corporate structure (through the fact that the corporation is their
              land lord, they are share croppers, so their rent is collected in
              produce, which in turn goes on to feed the corp's workers elsewhere,
              which those workers pay for with the corp's own issue of currency).
              they thus play apart in the 'semi-closed' economic systems that the
              larger companies have errected in NuTopia. The co-operatives would be
              stronger on the southern edge of the farming belt, as that is egde
              that is still a little looser, and frontier like.

              It is unlikely that The Order would permit disruption to food
              supplies, so any corp. take over of independant farms would be more
              subtle (buying up seed supply companies, for example). Many farms
              would appear to be nominally independant, but would be very dependant
              upon services supplied by particular corporations...

              It's true that there are new companies, not in existance when the
              world was founded. Some of the orginal core companies (Dig Deep, for
              example), have declined significantly. So yes, some companies have
              come into being. The way it might work is through a pre-
              pakaged 'starter company package', which would allow you a rating on
              the share wall, and perhaps some 'start up labour' from the non-
              citizen impressed labour pool. Access to such a 'start up kit' would
              be triggered by two things, evidence of sufficent capital (so a
              wealth criterion to be a member of the buisness class, as per ancient
              greece), but also ajudication upon what you were going to actually do
              by a higher authority (combining all the benfits of central planning
              and capitalism!) - almost certainly The Order. Companies in the start-
              up phase would not be Limited - bankruptcy would lead to total
              sequistration of assests, and, again as per ancient Greece, demotion
              to impressed labourer status. The law stipulates greater protection
              for CEO's the bigger the company gets, to allow for greater freedom
              for the most significant wealth producers (only fair under a system
              of Corporate Feudalism!)

              Garrick.


              --- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "Heads Up Now" <HeadsUpNow@w...>
              wrote:
              > > There is a frontier (just not well discussed as yet). The world is
              > > only about a third settled, and the Central Farming belt is
              expanding
              > > to the south... so those wishing to work for themselves do what
              the
              > > wild westeners did, and 'trek' south to set up small farms,
              somethign
              > > which is slowly filling up the gaps between cities. The world is
              > > growing, so the principal settlements and Thorus Tracks are like a
              > > skeletal network that is gradualy fleshing out. The Quadrants
              > > are 'Corporation Run', and areas of blank land do have company
              claims
              > > registered against them, but the rent for setting up small farms
              is
              > > minimal, to encourage land develpoment. A generation down the
              line,
              > > of course, (as has happened already in the northern parts of the
              > > belt) with the farms established, company control becomes tighter,
              > > something which encourages many farmer's sons to make the trek
              south
              > > and increase the area under settlement...
              > Uhm... Why haven't something like granges, farmer's
              cooperatives or the like
              > emerged to counter this? That's the natural economic response to
              this sort of
              > thing, at least until big money rewrites the laws to crush these
              folks. Which
              > in turn would create LOTS of political unrest. After all the
              farmers do grow
              > the food that everyone else eats, sure you can send the troops in
              to sieze this
              > season's harvest. Stalin did that, then the NEXT season the
              farmers just
              > didn't grow enough food to feed the nation - we know this because
              we had to
              > ship the Soviets food in the middle of the Second World War in the
              teeth of the
              > German U-boat packs to help keep them in the war.
              > So... How have your farmers been handling the attempts of the
              big corporations
              > to abscond or otherwise legally/financially steal their life's work?
              >
              > > As to starting our own company, that is an interesting idea, and
              as
              > > yet, I've no idea how you would do it, or even if you were
              allowed...
              > > I'll mull that over!
              > Well they can't have started with all the companies that are
              currently in
              > place, though it could well be that things have evolved to make it
              ever harder
              > to start a new company as the years have gone by. Still, there
              will always be
              > those who have the impulse and urge to do a startup company.
              >
              >
              >
              > Stephen
            • Consiluir Galanduan
              Sorry about the delay in response. Had an unexpected trip to Sydney. It s basically completely fictional. Another world, who knows, could be a whole different
              Message 6 of 14 , Mar 3, 2004
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                Sorry about the delay in response. Had an unexpected trip to Sydney.

                It's basically completely fictional. Another world, who knows, could be a
                whole different galaxy :) But really the stories don't get out of the
                atmosphere so it doesn't matter to me right now.

                Technological level is roughly medieval. It has its own advantages and
                disadvantages, no two worlds are ever the same - of course, you knew that.
                There is still a sovereign royalty in the majority of countries.

                The reason was more out of my desire to create. I love creating worlds. I
                like writing stories. Gaming can be fun. And thought experiments are
                interesting. It could be used for different things. For now, I just enjoy
                creating :D

                Perhaps in the near future I will be looking for collaborators. I'm
                interested in going into huge detail but I don't think I have enough time
                for the whole job ;) The overview has been delayed a little but keep your
                eye out for it.

                Joel

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Peregrine John [mailto:hierodule@...]
                Sent: Friday, 20 February 2004 5:50 AM
                To: geofiction@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [geofiction] Re: New guy...


                --- In geofiction@yahoogroups.com, "Consiluir Galanduan"
                <unimatrix001au@y...> wrote:
                > At the moment I am working on a continent
                > known as Paketira which is the home of the Holy Karpentaran
                Empire. I have
                > been working out a detailed history and maybe if anyone is
                interested I will
                > send in a world (continent?) overview.

                I'm interested! Before the overview is ready for prime time, can
                you tell us any general information? Is the place wholly fictional
                or based on an altered (or differently historied) Earth? What's the
                local technological/social/etc. level? For what reason (thought
                experiment, gaming, etc.) did you create it?


                Peregrine John




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