Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [genpcncfir] cousin marriages

Expand Messages
  • Bob Forbes
    Carol - Your account of the typical Virginian s attitude on this subject was interesting and humorous, but the answer to what ails them is really quite
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Carol - Your account of the typical Virginian's attitude on this subject was interesting and humorous, but the answer to 'what ails them' is really quite simple. Virginians see cousin marriages as something that their 'inbred' neighbors in the Caolinas do all the time, but anyone who speaks to a Virginia native is quickly informed that they are (and have always been) above such a thing. Makes 'em very uncomfortable when you confront them with the facts. The notion of Virginian superiority runs way back to the days of Jamestown & Wiliamsburg and is still with us to a large degree, influencing long-lasting atrocities such as the eugenics movement you spoke so well of just a few emails back. Isn't it great that we live in a time (although I'm not sure we're there quite yet) when most of us can speak frankly and openly about these matters ... but how hard it is to be humble, especially if you are a Virginian!
      Bob Forbes
      bforbes@...
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Carol Singh
      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:01 PM
      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Aliens Ancestors??


      Dear Robert & Jewelle, It's interesting, I think, that
      despite Virginia law allowing cousins to marry, not a
      single Virginian I have discussed the subject with
      would knowingly even kiss his cousin's cheek. Mention
      a cousin marrying a cousin around here (Richmond,
      Henrico County, Chesterfield County, Hanover
      County--where I have mentioned the subject but Mama
      never knew about it; I did know when to be reticent!),
      and you'd think a snake was getting ready to strike. I
      have never seen a mule so skittish nor so gunshy about
      anything as a Virginian is on this subject. As we'd
      say in North Carolina, I don't know what ails them! I
      learned from my experience to keep my mouth shut
      around here until (unless) I knew the lay of the land.
      Later, Carol
      --- robertlcapps <robertlcapps@...> wrote:
      > Jewelle,
      >
      > I didn't have to go to that website (I did read it
      > though) to find out
      > that my ancestors were "beamed down", since I can't
      > find them before 1785.
      >
      > Marilyn C.
      >
      >
      >


      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
      http://calendar.yahoo.com

      Yahoo! Groups Sponsor





      Click here for current information on Pitt County Historical Society: http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

      Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

      Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

      We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
      GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
      Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir


      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carol Singh
      Dear Bob, I agree on all counts. It s like the pot calling the kettle black! I had started to end my discussion on eugenics and the Virginian attitude with
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Bob, I agree on all counts. It's like the pot
        calling the kettle black! I had started to end my
        discussion on eugenics and the Virginian attitude with
        "Methinks they protest too much." However, I did not
        want to be mean, and I did not want to offend any
        Virginians online. With ancestors, once we moved to
        Virginia, Mama may have gone to the opposite of the
        Virginia extremes. Where Virginians might respond to a
        greeting like "Good morning" with "Honey, now just who
        are your grandparents?" (and God save you if the
        response you got from the Virginian--especially from
        one of the "grand dames" was "I don't believe I know
        them, of "I don't believe I'm acquainted with them."),
        Mama would respond, "I don't live by my grandparents'
        accomplishments but by my own, so it really doesn't
        matter who they were! Besides, I doubt if you would
        know them anyway." Not knowing whether Mama was being
        honest or delivering a subtle put-down, nobody who
        received the benefit of her statement ever inquired
        about her antecedents again. She went a step farther
        when she enrolled us in school here and told the
        principal that none of us was to be asked the first
        question about our family. She herself would tell the
        principal what she needed to know, and that was that.
        The last thing she told the four of us before we
        entered the school that day was that we were not to
        discuss the family and that we were to tell her if
        anyone questioned us on the subject. So, as a result,
        here I am asking everyone else about my own family
        because Mama wanted us to stand on our own two feet.
        She was never more serious about anything in her life
        than that subject of independence. She felt that it
        was too much to ask of a person either to live up to
        or to live down the accomplishments of his ancestors.
        For all the strength of the stand she took, though,
        Mama was incredibly sensitive, and from my earliest
        memories I had a knack for figuring out what would
        upset her and simply keeping whatever it was to
        myself--like eugenics, for example. I bet her lecture
        would have been one for the records! For that reason,
        I almost regret not having told her. Later, Carol
        --- Bob Forbes <bforbes@...> wrote:
        > Carol - Your account of the typical Virginian's
        > attitude on this subject was interesting and
        > humorous, but the answer to 'what ails them' is
        > really quite simple. Virginians see cousin
        > marriages as something that their 'inbred' neighbors
        > in the Caolinas do all the time, but anyone who
        > speaks to a Virginia native is quickly informed that
        > they are (and have always been) above such a thing.
        > Makes 'em very uncomfortable when you confront them
        > with the facts. The notion of Virginian superiority
        > runs way back to the days of Jamestown & Wiliamsburg
        > and is still with us to a large degree, influencing
        > long-lasting atrocities such as the eugenics
        > movement you spoke so well of just a few emails
        > back. Isn't it great that we live in a time
        > (although I'm not sure we're there quite yet) when
        > most of us can speak frankly and openly about these
        > matters ... but how hard it is to be humble,
        > especially if you are a Virginian!
        > Bob Forbes
        > bforbes@...
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Carol Singh
        > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:01 PM
        > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Aliens Ancestors??
        >
        >
        > Dear Robert & Jewelle, It's interesting, I think,
        > that
        > despite Virginia law allowing cousins to marry,
        > not a
        > single Virginian I have discussed the subject with
        > would knowingly even kiss his cousin's cheek.
        > Mention
        > a cousin marrying a cousin around here (Richmond,
        > Henrico County, Chesterfield County, Hanover
        > County--where I have mentioned the subject but
        > Mama
        > never knew about it; I did know when to be
        > reticent!),
        > and you'd think a snake was getting ready to
        > strike. I
        > have never seen a mule so skittish nor so gunshy
        > about
        > anything as a Virginian is on this subject. As
        > we'd
        > say in North Carolina, I don't know what ails
        > them! I
        > learned from my experience to keep my mouth shut
        > around here until (unless) I knew the lay of the
        > land.
        > Later, Carol
        > --- robertlcapps <robertlcapps@...> wrote:
        > > Jewelle,
        > >
        > > I didn't have to go to that website (I did read
        > it
        > > though) to find out
        > > that my ancestors were "beamed down", since I
        > can't
        > > find them before 1785.
        > >
        > > Marilyn C.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync
        > to Outlook(TM).
        > http://calendar.yahoo.com
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Click here for current information on Pitt County
        > Historical Society:
        > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
        >
        > Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
        >
        >
        http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
        >
        > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical
        > Resources:
        > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
        >
        > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to
        > join our dynamic group if you are interested in
        > genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
        > Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
        > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
        > Research
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
        > Terms of Service.
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
        http://calendar.yahoo.com
      • Paula Baker
        That was an awesome account of your mom. Please include it in her genealogy so others can read it down the road. A great characterization, Carol.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          That was an awesome account of your mom. Please include it in her genealogy
          so others can read it down the road. A great characterization, Carol.
          Heartwarming.



          Paula Anne Baker
          paulabaker69@...
          Researching BAKER, MANNING, TYSON, STOCKS AND OTHERS in Pitt County NC and
          Greene County NC
          and COLE, NORMAN, WHITE, SUTTON AND OTHERS in SC, GA, and LA


          That was an

          _________________________________________________________________
          MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
          http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
        • Carol Singh
          Dear Paula, Thanks. I will. She was an inspiring example to us. Even when we were barely out of toddlerhood, if a question arose among us about what to do and
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Dear Paula, Thanks. I will. She was an inspiring
            example to us. Even when we were barely out of
            toddlerhood, if a question arose among us about what
            to do and Mama was not there, one of us would always
            ask, "What do you think Mama would do?" What we did
            was determined by our deciding how Mama would think.
            Every one of us also grew up protecting Mama from
            anything we thought would upset her or hurt her
            feelings. If one of the young ones had a problem at
            school or had done something he should not have done,
            the rest of us would talk about it and put everything
            to rights without Mama's ever knowing the difference.
            By the time my younger brother was in 7th grade, the
            school principal never even called Mama about him.
            Instead, she had him bring home a note to me, and the
            principal and I made the decision. At Christmas, the
            four of us looked through the Sears' catalogue and
            decided that each of us would choose no more than four
            gifts and that for the rest, we would ask for books
            and clothes--which Mama would be getting for us
            anyway. This was even before we moved to Virginia. I
            was the only one who knew about Santa Claus, and I had
            told the rest of them that Santa Claus could not
            possibly give every child the same number of gifts, so
            wouldn't it be nice, if each of us gave up something
            so that some poor child could have a good Christmas. I
            was grown before I learned that Mama had overheard our
            Christmas gift discussions and had been really touched
            by our thoughtfulness, even though she had had enough
            money for our gifts. By the time I was in college,
            though, Mama's medical bills took money that we could
            have used for other things. That's when I (looking
            younger than my age) would dress in grungy blue jeans
            and grab my little sister and go through the streets
            in our neighborhood in Richmond's West End with a toe
            sack and collect the drink bottles that people had
            dropped in the alleys and tossed into the grass by the
            sidewalks. We'd collect enough each weekend to earn
            ourselves three or four dollars at the store a couple
            of blocks from the house. Some of the money we used to
            buy Mama a pound of coffe and a pack of cigarettes.
            The rest of the money we took home to her. All of us
            drank coffee. Here Mama made up for all the years her
            own mother had deprived her of the joy of coffee
            drinking because Grandma thought coffee bad for
            children. We drank like fiends from the time we were
            out of diapers. Each week the six of us went though
            seven pounds of coffee! The cigarettes were Mama's
            own. She told us she took up smoking when she was
            twenty-two and should never have started the habit.
            Try as she might, she couldn't quit. It seemed that
            whenever she tried to quit, her mastoiditis flared up
            so that she was actually distraught to the point of
            shifting her weight constantly from her left foot to
            her right and scratching the inside of her ear itching
            ear with a q-tip. If she were out of cigarettes and
            her ear had flared up, we'd race each other to the
            store to buy her cigarettes. Maybe nicotine is good
            for something. Maybe it decreases itching or at least
            numbs the itch signals. After a few puffs, she always
            felt remarkably better. Another good that may have
            come from seeing her need for cigarettes is that none
            of us smokes. For me, what makes geneology so
            rewarding is that we keep our families in our memories
            and that through our memories they continue to
            influence other lives. Later, Carol
            --- Paula Baker <paulabaker69@...> wrote:
            > That was an awesome account of your mom. Please
            > include it in her genealogy
            > so others can read it down the road. A great
            > characterization, Carol.
            > Heartwarming.
            >
            >
            >
            > Paula Anne Baker
            > paulabaker69@...
            > Researching BAKER, MANNING, TYSON, STOCKS AND OTHERS
            > in Pitt County NC and
            > Greene County NC
            > and COLE, NORMAN, WHITE, SUTTON AND OTHERS in SC,
            > GA, and LA
            >
            >
            > That was an
            >
            >
            _________________________________________________________________
            > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months
            > FREE*
            > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
            >
            >


            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
            http://calendar.yahoo.com
          • Paula Baker
            Please include the second one in her genealogy too. You are one of those natural writers who probably doesn t realize it. I taught gifted children for 13
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Please include the second one in her genealogy too. You are one of those
              natural writers who probably doesn't realize it. I taught gifted children
              for 13 years. You need to write the story of your mother and publish it.



              Paula Anne Baker
              paulabaker69@...
              Researching BAKER, MANNING, TYSON, STOCKS AND OTHERS in Pitt County NC and
              Greene County NC
              and COLE, NORMAN, WHITE, SUTTON AND OTHERS in SC, GA, and LA

              _________________________________________________________________
              Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
              http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
            • Carol Singh
              Dear Paula, Thank you so very much for taking time to compliment me on my writing about Mama. She was so inspiring to us that it s more as if she comes through
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 3, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Dear Paula, Thank you so very much for taking time to
                compliment me on my writing about Mama. She was so
                inspiring to us that it's more as if she comes through
                the words by the force of her character. She truly
                left her mark on the four of us. Mama had a life-long
                love of history and had hoped some day to write a
                history of Pitt County. Without being sentimental
                about it, she loved Pitt County as much as anyone who
                proclaimed that love, but she preferred to show it by
                her actions rather than through telling people.
                Initially, I hated history because everybody else
                could read the book and come up with the very same
                answers I had. Somehow, too, my school history texts
                always left me wanting to know more than I was told.
                That's when I started reading biographies and began
                really to experience the lives about which I was
                reading. I had the same experience reading the old
                Eastern Reflectors and Daily Reflectors at the
                rootsweb site. That's when it came to me that what was
                missing was the day-by-day happenings behind the
                scenes that shaped the characters of the people who
                made history and that probably inspired those writers
                behind the pages of my history books. Genealogy was a
                natural outgrowth of my search for the people behind
                the history. For example, it was maddening to me to
                read a statement like "Texas seceded from the Union."
                I wanted to jump up and shout, "No, it didn't either.
                Texans seceded from the Union." Biographies gave me
                back the people. A second reason for my becoming
                interested in genealogy was the section of genetics in
                my high school biology book. I was intrigued by the
                musical Mozart family and began to wonder who I might
                be like in my own family and who other people were
                like and how could I find out. Whatever else, I guess
                I am more like the character (a fiction, of course)
                from The Wonder Years. I seem to ask questions that
                others rarely ask and to wonder about things where
                others hardly bat an eye. I used to think I must be
                naive! If I were not, then why do I always ask
                questions or misunderstand a word someone is using.
                For example, when I graduated from high school, and
                Mama was so sick from chemotherapy and asked if I
                would take a "permanent" job for a year until my
                stepfather got established in his medical practice, I
                was inwardly devastated while readily agreeing to her
                request. I thought that applying for a "permanent" job
                meant that I was committing myself for life even
                though Mama had said I could resign whenever I wished.
                I felt that to do so would be getting a job by telling
                a lie. I remember walking the streets alone as I went
                from job interview to job interview and feeling so sad
                and terribly betrayed at finding the world a far
                different place than I had always thought--thinking
                that I could never trust grown-ups because what they
                said was not what they meant. If it's not "permanent,"
                then why call it permanent. There must be a catch
                somewhere, and I was desperately afraid that it would
                catch up with me. It was like signing my life away,
                every dream I'd ever had, but I knew that Mama was
                very sick and might not live, and I could do no less
                for her and my younger brothers and sister than to
                make sure they were cared for. Though later than I had
                planned, I did get to go to college, but those years
                between high school and college made me appreciate the
                chance I got and determined to make the most of my
                wonderful opportunity. Later, Carol
                --- Paula Baker <paulabaker69@...> wrote:
                > Please include the second one in her genealogy too.
                > You are one of those
                > natural writers who probably doesn't realize it. I
                > taught gifted children
                > for 13 years. You need to write the story of your
                > mother and publish it.
                >
                >
                >
                > Paula Anne Baker
                > paulabaker69@...
                > Researching BAKER, MANNING, TYSON, STOCKS AND OTHERS
                > in Pitt County NC and
                > Greene County NC
                > and COLE, NORMAN, WHITE, SUTTON AND OTHERS in SC,
                > GA, and LA
                >
                >
                _________________________________________________________________
                > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months
                > FREE*.
                > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
                >
                >


                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
                http://calendar.yahoo.com
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.