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RE: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

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  • Jim M.
    Rigney Murphy and Guilford Murphy seem to be somehow related. I think the Blounts were just friends. Someone has circa 1750 s to 1790 s Murphey family letters.
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 14 12:56 PM
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      Rigney Murphy and Guilford Murphy seem to be somehow related. I think the Blounts were just friends. Someone has circa 1750's to 1790's Murphey family letters. I remember one mentioned Pitt Co. horse races with Blackledge, I think his name was? I know my ancestors would roll over in their graves (I was so tickled when I learned some distant, distant relative descendant, via (forget the term), had converted my very aristocratic Episcopal (post slave holder), ex-Quaker (pre-slaveholder), Capt. Richard Bradley, Sr., in to a Mormon; if we looked into his grave: bet he'd rolled over ten times? ) if they heard me even hint at the possibility. I think my Shadrack Johnson was in Pitt Co. the 1750's from S.E. Va. I don't know who his parents were and guess he may have been born c1710 to 1730's? When was Jamestown founded, about 1610? About twenty years or so after the whites arrived, I think the blacks arrived not as "slaves" per se, but technically as indentured servants. Alledgedly, one of the first had his several years only indenture purchased by a white Mr. Johnson who's name the black took, and repaid it off early, and wed a daughter of the white Johnson. Before the black's death, slavery as such had evolved, and the black Johnson died a slave owner. Likely these "black" (to me neither "black" nor "White", but rather "duel-heritage") Johnson preferred to marry "up" (ie free whites) rather than "down" (black slaves) and in four or five generations were "white"; which is about the time Shadrack Johnson, perhaps with no connection, arrives on-scene. Alternatively Shadracks descent from one of the white brothers of the white wife of black Mr. Johnson, is statistically, more likely. I've had that DNA genealogy done. It did catch my 1600/1700's French Pyrenees Mountains blood, but black blood was not mentioned. Question: if I had a black forebear at Jamestown, maybe 13 to 15 generations back, and he was my only black ancestor until then, would the DNA genealogy test catch that? However my DNA genealogy cookie crumbles, I didn't pick my ancestors.

      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
      From: rhodenccc@...
      Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:37:46 -0700
      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek




























      Jim,



      I think I've read this three times now ,, I just enjoyed reading it. You do make those old times come alive. The book I mentioned yesterday did have the formation map for Pitt that showed both Dobbs Co to the SSW and Craven to the SSE adjacent to Pitt, and Dobbs. Pitt was formed in 1760, but I did read that it all didn't take effect for a few years. Some of the old maps I have found (half or more of which I cannot read even with my great-grandmother's magnifying glass) do list the properties and landholders of same on them. Seems like most of them settled along rivers and creeks ,, likely for access by boat and ships.



      I am still sorting out in my brain the various reformations of "precincts" into 'counties' so we can target our own research.



      And, the Blount family was not too far away ,, so I'd keep checking on them as well. The naming tradition that another researcher on this site posted not to long ago mentioned that middle names were either family names or close friends. I think that was a great tip. If I run across your Murphy family in our reseach I will let you know.



      I live in So Cal and I laugh because I think before this research is done I will know historical NC better than I know California.



      great good luck to you in your research ,, cheryl rhoden o7o



      ----- Original Message ----

      From: Jim M. <focusoninfinity@...>

      To: "genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com" <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>

      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:37:57 PM

      Subject: RE: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



      A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and possibly today in Pitt; is the site of the c1770's "Bear Garden" plantation of Capt. John Murphy, Sr. I descend his son Capt. Wm. Murphey, brother of Capt. Michael Murphey, Capt. Jethro Murphey, and Wilhelmenia "Billie" Murphey. Capt. William Murphey had my Wm. Spencer Murphey and Wm. Blount Murphey (doubt they had Blount blood?)(Spencer witnessed the will of John Gray Blount). Spencer's land adjoined Blount Hall on Contentnea (spelling?) Creek. An old letter shows a dinner seating arrangement at Blount Hall and a comment, "the Blounts were arguing again". Spencer's place became the Shadrack "Shade" and Mary Elizabeth "Eliza" Murphey Wooten farm at Johnson's Mills between St. John's Epis. Church and the Craven Co., line. Shade's grandfather was Shadrack Johnson). A millstone is at the bottom of the outside stairway to the kitchen house behind the Shade Wooten home. Jim Wooten of Tucson,

      former head of FBI Cold War counter intelligence, was the last Wooten born in the home. When I visited it decades ago, farmer Taylor lived there. He was kin to (Julia?) Taylor, Rev. Edw. Wooten's (Sgt. & Lt. CSA) first wife. I descend his second wife, Mrs. Eliza Yonge Jewett Wootten of Wilmington. Their daughter who died circa an older teenager, Miss. Mary Murphey (with an 'e' on the tombstone) Wootten, is buried Oakdale Cemetery, Wilmington, with Rev. and Mrs. Wootten (he added an extra 't'). One night at dinner at the old 11 S. Third St., Hill-Wright-Wootten home adjoing St. James Epis., Wilmington, Mary said she felt ill and was going up-stairs to die. Every body said to not talk such; she was found dead the next morning in her fourth floor bedroom. The fouth floor was no longer used in my many summer nights on the third floor; alone at night I was spooked there enough; the St. James Cemetery behind us. My late great aunt, Mrs. Amoret Cameron Wootten

      Davis who died age 96, as a child played in the cemetery and crawled between the crumbling bricks holding up a long old slab tombstone. She was playing with the bones; the sexton or some such, caught her. The next Sunday, the preacher high in the pulpit (the Wootten, Jewett, Bradley bench was the third one back if memory serves; from the days of family owned pews; locals did not occupy other's pews, but if an away person was there; one said nothing and sat in the back) condemed little children playing colonist's bones--a no-no. I think the house was rebuilt in 1802 after the city fire of 1799? Amoret had a big 1775 British penny she'd found in the sand in the backyard. All five Wootten kids had house chores based on age. Older Bradley Jewett Wootten's was to gather all the kerosine lights in the morning to the shet behind the kitchen building, and refill them. Mother's (Leila James Wootten Miller) was to wash the lamp's glass chimneys, and re-attach

      them so Bradley could redistribute them. Little Ned Wootten's (later Col. USAF, Cold War asst. air attche to ol'Mockba, and air attache to Poland) task was to wind all the clocks on all the floors. What Little Mary Malone Wootten did, and her older sister Eliza Yonge Wootten (Lt. nurse U.S. Army, WWII) did, I don't know. A doctor rented the half front floor, back basement for an office. One day going down the slopeing driveway, in a trashcan, I espied a white leg cast, but thought that it was a human leg (not bright kid); and went screaming back inside to mother; "There's a human leg in the trasdh can". Another Wootten girl, very young, died in the mountains from eating a wild berry that was poisonous. I imagine this was At Saluda, N.C., where mother was born 1914, the last year the family had the cottage time from when in the hot summers, men stayed in Wilmington, but families took the train to the high mountain cool air. Before trains, they could only

      go by steamboat to say Seven Springs, or Hillsborough. To walk amongst the Epis. church graves at Hillsborough uis to see again the names of colonial Wilmington families who's people died there in the hat summer. Jim Miller, Southport, N.C., where great, great grandfather, Stephen Jewett, IV, from 1838 Maine, came down to then Smithville (Southport) to be it's postmaster and wed second Lucy Anna Bradley, the daughter of Richard Bradley, Jr., who signed the Bank of Cape fear money. Jewett would sign Bank of Wilmington money. He is buried at the chapel at "Airlie Gardens"; once the sight of the Bradley family summer home on Bradley's Creek.



      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

      From: rhodenccc@...

      Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:42 -0700

      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek













      Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they aren't quite ready for my inquiry.



      I have found 'county reformation' maps for NC ,, but I really need to get specific. I and my cousins are 'dogs on the hunt' now and we are determined to figure this out. Determined ,, as in really determined. Thanks for the tips. all best, cheryl rhoden o7o



      ________________________________



      From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@...>



      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com



      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:40:48 PM



      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



      Cheryl,



      See if you can get a copy of The Formation of the North Carolina



      Counties by David Leroy Corbitt. It explains the formation of each



      county and which county was divided to make the new county. Your



      local library should have it, or can get it for you through inter-



      library loan, or you can order it on-line from Barnes & Noble or from



      Amazon.com.



      It explains it much better than I can.



      Trish



      On Jul 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:



      >



      > Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference



      > today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a



      > good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful



      > info about early Pitt Co.



      >



      > Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA



      > before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and



      > followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't



      > have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing



      > overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may



      > have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly



      > from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great



      > Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl



      > rhoden o7o



      >



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    • DAVID SMITH
      im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it s on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 14 1:01 PM
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        im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.  
        http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3405%20Yankee%20Hall%20Road&city=Greenville&state=NC&zipcode=27834&country=US&cid=lfmaplink
         
        as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes.    if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road"  grindle is a very long body of water.  thanks!
        --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...> wrote:


        From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...>
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM








        David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o

        ____________ _________ _________ __
        From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

        grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

        --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
        Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM

        Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

        I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

        ____________ _________ _________ __
        From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

        You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
        I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
        Faye Hays
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: cheryl rhoden
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

        Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

        Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

        ____________ _________ _________ __
        From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

        Cheryl,

        Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
        River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
        Simpson and
        Grimesland.

        Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

        Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

        http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

        Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
        Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

        Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

        The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

        and

        The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

        Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
        detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

        Trish Worthington Cobb

        On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
        >
        > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
        > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
        > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
        > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
        > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
        >
        > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
        > Cheryl Rhoden
        >
        > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
        > Davis/Chancy and more.
        >

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jim M.
        Is Green County defunct? If so, I may have mixed it up with Dobbs, but doubt it. Twenty years ago in State archives Raleigh, the archivist was attempting
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 14 1:18 PM
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          Is Green County defunct? If so, I may have mixed it up with Dobbs, but doubt it. Twenty years ago in State archives Raleigh, the archivist was attempting reconstitute records for Dobbs Co. My Lt. Arthur Forbes, Sr. (believed in education, we both share that value still) was on the Pitt Co. Comm. of Secrecy, Intelligence and Observation (Jim Wooten, ex-Cold War head of FBI counter intelligence is also a descendant. That's mom's side, on dad's side I desc. 2nd Maj. James Smith, Sr., of the Rowan Com. of Secrecy, Intelligence and Observation. I was talking with a retired CIA fella' and book writer who know all about Committees of Safety, but was amazed he'd never hear of the CofSIO sub-committees in many counties. There were also committees of correspondence: communications. Anyway, I'd never connected Forbes with Dobbs County--but there it was. It was the ya or nay votes of the perhaps thirty men (no women's names) allowed to vote on the acceptance of the US Constitution. There too, a tiny printed version of the Constitution. Anyway Patriot Forbes voted against the U.S. Constitution. Too radical Liberal a document I thought? That was in my right-wing ideology days--I was delighted. Today I do not cotton to the notion that "facts" should be acceptable or not, based on the facts acceptability to conforming to either right-wing or left-wing ideology. Rather ideologies, should conform to the facts.

          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
          From: amaryllish@...
          Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:30:16 -0400
          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


























          I love all this wonderful history. Please tell me your name. My Murphey

          family is Jack Murphey, married Winifred Unknown and lived in Greene County,

          NC. Their daughter Nancy Mary Murphey married my great grandfather Jacob

          Wainwright. Their son James Murphey married Jacob's sister Catherine

          Wainwright. No one knows anything about this Murphey family and I have not been able

          to trace them back anywhere. They were there the same time and same area

          that Thomas Murphey & family was (1810-1880), but everyone around here says

          they are not related. I don't know.... I've mostly been working on my

          Wainwright's and Turner's as well as Hunt's and Sizemore's (My husbands

          families). Again, Just wanted to say thank you for your excellenct information.

          Amy W. Hunt Ancestor Seekers of Farmville &

          Greene County Researchers, Inc.

          **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on

          tour at TourTracker.com.

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jim M.
          While don t know this for sure; this is my speculation. up to the 1850 s, where Shade Wooten lived, was called Johnson s Mills to the post office. Don t think
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 14 1:48 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            While don't know this for sure; this is my speculation. up to the 1850's, where Shade Wooten lived, was called Johnson's Mills to the post office. Don't think of romantic visions of big watermills and dams, but of millstones only three or four feet across. Think of a long, narrow, not too deep canal (ditch) to/from the river from low areas to high ground. The Johnson's Mill's canal may have been dug by Blackledge? Thirty years ago in the basement of the Pitt register of deeds vault, I met a lawyer who ever heard me tell the register of deeds I wanted to look in a perhaps ten miles longs by one or two miles wide strip of Pitt Co. that remain in Craven Co. for a decade or two after Pitt was founded, and then added to Pitt. The lawyer said he did not know that. That he had attempted to settle a contemporary boundryline dispute based on historical legal records, but could not find the records in Pitt Co. I said because they were, and still are, in Craven. He'd settled it by mutual agreement. Every N.C. register of deeds vault should have a copy of N.C. state archives book, the legal histories (geographically) of the counties. That's where I learned it. If the Pitt vault does not have it; there's a project for the Pitt genealogy or historical society and perhaps a newspaper squib about the donation.

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
            From: carolinaguyesq@...
            Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:01:02 -0700
            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


























            im going to try to send you a link to the google map. it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt county very near to beaufort. i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.

            http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3405%20Yankee%20Hall%20Road&city=Greenville&state=NC&zipcode=27834&country=US&cid=lfmaplink



            as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes. if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road" grindle is a very long body of water. thanks!

            --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...> wrote:



            From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...>

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

            Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM



            David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o



            ____________ _________ _________ __

            From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

            Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



            grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall.



            --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:



            From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

            Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM



            Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc? Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.



            I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o



            ____________ _________ _________ __

            From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



            You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.

            I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.

            Faye Hays

            ----- Original Message -----

            From: cheryl rhoden

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



            Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.



            Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o



            ____________ _________ _________ __

            From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



            Cheryl,



            Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar

            River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between

            Simpson and

            Grimesland.



            Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.



            Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.



            http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf



            Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.

            Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.



            Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:



            The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell



            and



            The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.



            Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very

            detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.



            Trish Worthington Cobb



            On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:

            >

            > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River

            > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't

            > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.

            > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the

            > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.

            >

            > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,

            > Cheryl Rhoden

            >

            > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/

            > Davis/Chancy and more.

            >



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          • cheryl rhoden
            Daviid  ,, Thank you!! This was a great link. I cannot believe that it still looks like nothing is there. I tried to zoom in and I still didn t see a house or
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 14 5:29 PM
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              Daviid  ,, Thank you!! This was a great link. I cannot believe that it still looks like nothing is there. I tried to zoom in and I still didn't see a house or any outbuildings. Why is that?

              The deed info we have is on the North side of the Tar River and  Grindle's Creek. Course ,, we have a lot of other deed info for Moores and we're trying to sort that out.

              And, what really amazes me is that the various properties other ancestors lived on in GA/FL are still just as rural as they likely were all those years ago. And, half or more of us in our cousin research group also live in very rural areas. Must be in the blood. Thanks again for that link. All best,
              Cheryl Rhoden o7o




              ________________________________
              From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@...>
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:01:02 PM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek





              im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.  
              http://www.mapquest .com/maps/ map.adp?address= 3405%20Yankee% 20Hall%20Road& city=Greenville& state=NC& zipcode=27834& country=US& cid=lfmaplink
               
              as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes.    if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road"  grindle is a very long body of water.  thanks!
              --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM

              David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

              grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

              --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM

              Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

              I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

              You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
              I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
              Faye Hays
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: cheryl rhoden
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

              Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

              Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

              ____________ _________ _________ __
              From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
              Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

              Cheryl,

              Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
              River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
              Simpson and
              Grimesland.

              Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

              Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

              http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

              Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
              Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

              Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

              The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

              and

              The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

              Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
              detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

              Trish Worthington Cobb

              On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
              >
              > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
              > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
              > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
              > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
              > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
              >
              > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
              > Cheryl Rhoden
              >
              > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
              > Davis/Chancy and more.
              >

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            • rhodenccc
              Jim, I was searching the Pitt Deed Notes today and found references to William Murphy. I hope this link works:
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 18 10:07 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                Jim,

                I was searching the Pitt Deed Notes today and found references to William Murphy.

                I hope this link works:

                www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncpcfr/pittdeednotes.htm

                Scroll to entry # 150 and entry # 497. There are also a good number of references to the Blounts. best, cheryl o7o--- In genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com, Jim M. <focusoninfinity@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and
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