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Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

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  • cheryl rhoden
    Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they
    Message 1 of 20 , Jul 13, 2009
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      Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they aren't quite ready for my inquiry.

      I have found 'county reformation' maps for NC  ,, but I really need to get specific. I and my cousins are 'dogs on the hunt' now and we are determined to figure this out. Determined ,, as in really determined. Thanks for the tips. all best, cheryl rhoden o7o




      ________________________________
      From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@...>
      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:40:48 PM
      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek





      Cheryl,
      See if you can get a copy of The Formation of the North Carolina
      Counties by David Leroy Corbitt. It explains the formation of each
      county and which county was divided to make the new county. Your
      local library should have it, or can get it for you through inter-
      library loan, or you can order it on-line from Barnes & Noble or from
      Amazon.com.
      It explains it much better than I can.
      Trish

      On Jul 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
      >
      > Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference
      > today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a
      > good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful
      > info about early Pitt Co.
      >
      > Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA
      > before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and
      > followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't
      > have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing
      > overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may
      > have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly
      > from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great
      > Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl
      > rhoden o7o
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim M.
      A place I d like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and possibly today in Pitt; is the site of the c1770 s Bear Garden plantation of Capt. John
      Message 2 of 20 , Jul 13, 2009
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        A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and possibly today in Pitt; is the site of the c1770's "Bear Garden" plantation of Capt. John Murphy, Sr. I descend his son Capt. Wm. Murphey, brother of Capt. Michael Murphey, Capt. Jethro Murphey, and Wilhelmenia "Billie" Murphey. Capt. William Murphey had my Wm. Spencer Murphey and Wm. Blount Murphey (doubt they had Blount blood?)(Spencer witnessed the will of John Gray Blount). Spencer's land adjoined Blount Hall on Contentnea (spelling?) Creek. An old letter shows a dinner seating arrangement at Blount Hall and a comment, "the Blounts were arguing again". Spencer's place became the Shadrack "Shade" and Mary Elizabeth "Eliza" Murphey Wooten farm at Johnson's Mills between St. John's Epis. Church and the Craven Co., line. Shade's grandfather was Shadrack Johnson). A millstone is at the bottom of the outside stairway to the kitchen house behind the Shade Wooten home. Jim Wooten of Tucson, former head of FBI Cold War counter intelligence, was the last Wooten born in the home. When I visited it decades ago, farmer Taylor lived there. He was kin to (Julia?) Taylor, Rev. Edw. Wooten's (Sgt. & Lt. CSA) first wife. I descend his second wife, Mrs. Eliza Yonge Jewett Wootten of Wilmington. Their daughter who died circa an older teenager, Miss. Mary Murphey (with an 'e' on the tombstone) Wootten, is buried Oakdale Cemetery, Wilmington, with Rev. and Mrs. Wootten (he added an extra 't'). One night at dinner at the old 11 S. Third St., Hill-Wright-Wootten home adjoing St. James Epis., Wilmington, Mary said she felt ill and was going up-stairs to die. Every body said to not talk such; she was found dead the next morning in her fourth floor bedroom. The fouth floor was no longer used in my many summer nights on the third floor; alone at night I was spooked there enough; the St. James Cemetery behind us. My late great aunt, Mrs. Amoret Cameron Wootten Davis who died age 96, as a child played in the cemetery and crawled between the crumbling bricks holding up a long old slab tombstone. She was playing with the bones; the sexton or some such, caught her. The next Sunday, the preacher high in the pulpit (the Wootten, Jewett, Bradley bench was the third one back if memory serves; from the days of family owned pews; locals did not occupy other's pews, but if an away person was there; one said nothing and sat in the back) condemed little children playing colonist's bones--a no-no. I think the house was rebuilt in 1802 after the city fire of 1799? Amoret had a big 1775 British penny she'd found in the sand in the backyard. All five Wootten kids had house chores based on age. Older Bradley Jewett Wootten's was to gather all the kerosine lights in the morning to the shet behind the kitchen building, and refill them. Mother's (Leila James Wootten Miller) was to wash the lamp's glass chimneys, and re-attach them so Bradley could redistribute them. Little Ned Wootten's (later Col. USAF, Cold War asst. air attche to ol'Mockba, and air attache to Poland) task was to wind all the clocks on all the floors. What Little Mary Malone Wootten did, and her older sister Eliza Yonge Wootten (Lt. nurse U.S. Army, WWII) did, I don't know. A doctor rented the half front floor, back basement for an office. One day going down the slopeing driveway, in a trashcan, I espied a white leg cast, but thought that it was a human leg (not bright kid); and went screaming back inside to mother; "There's a human leg in the trasdh can". Another Wootten girl, very young, died in the mountains from eating a wild berry that was poisonous. I imagine this was At Saluda, N.C., where mother was born 1914, the last year the family had the cottage time from when in the hot summers, men stayed in Wilmington, but families took the train to the high mountain cool air. Before trains, they could only go by steamboat to say Seven Springs, or Hillsborough. To walk amongst the Epis. church graves at Hillsborough uis to see again the names of colonial Wilmington families who's people died there in the hat summer. Jim Miller, Southport, N.C., where great, great grandfather, Stephen Jewett, IV, from 1838 Maine, came down to then Smithville (Southport) to be it's postmaster and wed second Lucy Anna Bradley, the daughter of Richard Bradley, Jr., who signed the Bank of Cape fear money. Jewett would sign Bank of Wilmington money. He is buried at the chapel at "Airlie Gardens"; once the sight of the Bradley family summer home on Bradley's Creek.

        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
        From: rhodenccc@...
        Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:42 -0700
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


























        Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they aren't quite ready for my inquiry.



        I have found 'county reformation' maps for NC ,, but I really need to get specific. I and my cousins are 'dogs on the hunt' now and we are determined to figure this out. Determined ,, as in really determined. Thanks for the tips. all best, cheryl rhoden o7o



        ________________________________

        From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@...>

        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

        Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:40:48 PM

        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



        Cheryl,

        See if you can get a copy of The Formation of the North Carolina

        Counties by David Leroy Corbitt. It explains the formation of each

        county and which county was divided to make the new county. Your

        local library should have it, or can get it for you through inter-

        library loan, or you can order it on-line from Barnes & Noble or from

        Amazon.com.

        It explains it much better than I can.

        Trish



        On Jul 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:

        >

        > Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference

        > today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a

        > good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful

        > info about early Pitt Co.

        >

        > Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA

        > before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and

        > followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't

        > have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing

        > overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may

        > have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly

        > from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great

        > Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl

        > rhoden o7o

        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















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      • amaryllish@aol.com
        I love all this wonderful history. Please tell me your name. My Murphey family is Jack Murphey, married Winifred Unknown and lived in Greene County, NC. Their
        Message 3 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
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          I love all this wonderful history. Please tell me your name. My Murphey
          family is Jack Murphey, married Winifred Unknown and lived in Greene County,
          NC. Their daughter Nancy Mary Murphey married my great grandfather Jacob
          Wainwright. Their son James Murphey married Jacob's sister Catherine
          Wainwright. No one knows anything about this Murphey family and I have not been able
          to trace them back anywhere. They were there the same time and same area
          that Thomas Murphey & family was (1810-1880), but everyone around here says
          they are not related. I don't know.... I've mostly been working on my
          Wainwright's and Turner's as well as Hunt's and Sizemore's (My husbands
          families). Again, Just wanted to say thank you for your excellenct information.
          Amy W. Hunt Ancestor Seekers of Farmville &
          Greene County Researchers, Inc.
          **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on
          tour at TourTracker.com.
          (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • cheryl rhoden
          Jim,  I think I ve read this three times now ,, I just enjoyed reading it. You do make those old times come alive.  The book I mentioned yesterday did have
          Message 4 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
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            Jim,

             I think I've read this three times now ,, I just enjoyed reading it. You do make those old times come alive.  The book I mentioned yesterday did have the formation map for Pitt that showed both Dobbs Co to the SSW and Craven to the SSE adjacent to Pitt, and Dobbs.   Pitt was formed in 1760, but I did read that it all didn't take effect for a few years. Some of the old maps I have found (half or more of which I cannot read even with my great-grandmother's magnifying glass) do list the properties and landholders of same on them. Seems like most of them settled along rivers and creeks ,, likely for access by boat and ships.

            I am still sorting out in my brain the various reformations of "precincts" into 'counties' so we can target our own research.

            And, the Blount family was not too far away ,, so I'd keep checking on them as well. The naming tradition that another researcher on this site posted not to long ago mentioned that middle names were either family names or close friends. I think that was a great tip. If I run across your Murphy family in our reseach I will let you know.

            I live in So Cal and I laugh because I think before this research is done I will know historical NC better than I know California.

            great good luck to you in your research ,, cheryl rhoden o7o



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Jim M. <focusoninfinity@...>
            To: "genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com" <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:37:57 PM
            Subject: RE: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


            A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and possibly today in Pitt; is the site of the c1770's "Bear Garden" plantation of Capt. John Murphy, Sr. I descend his son Capt. Wm. Murphey, brother of Capt. Michael Murphey, Capt. Jethro Murphey, and Wilhelmenia "Billie" Murphey. Capt. William Murphey  had my Wm. Spencer Murphey and Wm. Blount Murphey (doubt they had Blount blood?)(Spencer witnessed the will of John Gray Blount). Spencer's land adjoined Blount Hall on Contentnea (spelling?) Creek. An old letter shows a dinner seating arrangement at Blount Hall and a comment, "the Blounts were arguing again". Spencer's place became the Shadrack "Shade" and Mary Elizabeth "Eliza" Murphey Wooten farm at Johnson's Mills between St. John's Epis. Church and the Craven Co., line. Shade's grandfather was Shadrack Johnson). A millstone is at the bottom of the outside stairway to the kitchen house behind the Shade Wooten home. Jim Wooten of Tucson,
            former head of FBI Cold War counter intelligence, was the last Wooten born in the home. When I visited it decades ago, farmer Taylor lived there. He was kin to (Julia?) Taylor, Rev. Edw. Wooten's (Sgt. & Lt. CSA) first wife. I descend his second wife, Mrs. Eliza Yonge Jewett Wootten of Wilmington. Their daughter who died circa an older teenager, Miss. Mary Murphey (with an 'e' on the tombstone) Wootten, is buried Oakdale Cemetery, Wilmington, with Rev. and Mrs. Wootten (he added an extra 't'). One night at dinner at the old 11 S. Third St., Hill-Wright-Wootten home adjoing St. James Epis., Wilmington, Mary said she felt ill and was going up-stairs to die. Every body said to not talk such; she was found dead the next morning in her fourth floor bedroom. The fouth floor was no longer used in my many summer nights on the third floor; alone at night I was spooked there enough; the St. James Cemetery behind us. My late great aunt, Mrs. Amoret Cameron Wootten
            Davis who died age 96, as a child played in the cemetery and crawled between the crumbling bricks holding up a long old slab tombstone. She was playing with the bones; the sexton or some such, caught her. The next Sunday, the preacher high in the pulpit (the Wootten, Jewett, Bradley bench was the third one back if memory serves; from the days of family owned pews; locals did not occupy other's pews, but if an away person was there; one said nothing and sat in the back) condemed little children playing colonist's bones--a no-no. I think the house was rebuilt in 1802 after the city fire of 1799? Amoret had a big 1775 British penny she'd found in the sand in the backyard. All five Wootten kids had house chores based on age. Older Bradley Jewett Wootten's was to gather all the kerosine lights in the morning to the shet behind the kitchen building, and refill them. Mother's (Leila James Wootten Miller) was to wash the lamp's glass chimneys, and re-attach
            them so Bradley could redistribute them. Little Ned Wootten's (later Col. USAF, Cold War asst. air attche to ol'Mockba, and air attache to Poland) task was to wind all the clocks on all the floors. What Little Mary Malone Wootten did, and her older sister Eliza Yonge Wootten (Lt. nurse U.S. Army, WWII) did, I don't know. A doctor rented the half front floor, back basement for an office. One day going down the slopeing driveway, in a trashcan, I espied a white leg cast, but thought that it was a human leg (not bright kid); and went screaming back inside to mother; "There's a human leg in the trasdh can". Another Wootten girl, very young, died in the mountains from eating a wild berry that was poisonous. I imagine this was At Saluda, N.C., where mother was born 1914, the last year the family had the cottage time from when in the hot summers, men stayed in Wilmington, but families took the train to the high mountain cool air. Before trains, they could only
            go by steamboat to say Seven Springs, or Hillsborough. To walk amongst the Epis. church graves at Hillsborough uis to see again the names of colonial Wilmington families who's people died there in the hat summer. Jim Miller, Southport, N.C., where great, great grandfather, Stephen Jewett, IV, from 1838 Maine, came down to then Smithville (Southport) to be it's postmaster and wed second Lucy Anna Bradley, the daughter of Richard Bradley, Jr., who signed the Bank of Cape fear money. Jewett would sign Bank of Wilmington money. He is buried at the chapel at "Airlie Gardens"; once the sight of the Bradley family summer home on Bradley's Creek.

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
            From: rhodenccc@...
            Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:42 -0700
            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek




















               
                       
                       


                 
                  Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they aren't quite ready for my inquiry.



            I have found 'county reformation' maps for NC  ,, but I really need to get specific. I and my cousins are 'dogs on the hunt' now and we are determined to figure this out. Determined ,, as in really determined. Thanks for the tips. all best, cheryl rhoden o7o



            ________________________________

            From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@...>

            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:40:48 PM

            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



            Cheryl,

            See if you can get a copy of The Formation of the North Carolina

            Counties by David Leroy Corbitt. It explains the formation of each

            county and which county was divided to make the new county. Your

            local library should have it, or can get it for you through inter-

            library loan, or you can order it on-line from Barnes & Noble or from

            Amazon.com.

            It explains it much better than I can.

            Trish



            On Jul 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:

            >

            > Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference

            > today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a

            > good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful

            > info about early Pitt Co.

            >

            > Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA

            > before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and

            > followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't

            > have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing

            > overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may

            > have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly

            > from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great

            > Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl

            > rhoden o7o

            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                 

               
               
               
               
               
               


               


               
               
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            ------------------------------------

            Pitt County Historical Society:                  http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

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            RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:                        http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

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            We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
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          • Paula Baker
            Mary A. Cobb was the daughter of William Cobb and Gatsy ____________.  I think Mary A. Cobb who was born Apr 26, 1865 and died Oct 6, 1948 and was married
            Message 5 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
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              Mary A. Cobb was the daughter of William Cobb and Gatsy ____________.  I think Mary A. Cobb who was born Apr 26, 1865 and died Oct 6, 1948 and was married to John Hobbs, may have been married to the John Evans/Ivins Hobbs who could be a cousin to my Bakers in Greene.  On her death certificate, Greene Co is listed as Mary A. Cobb Hobbs' birth county and she also died in Greene Co.  I am looking for them in the census.  Mary A. was buried in the Brann Cemetery.  Is John Hobbs buried there also? 
               Paula Baker
              Researching Cole, Wilkerson, Norman, and White in Georgia, South Carolina, and Louisiana and
              Baker, Tyson, Manning, and Stocks in North Carolina


              "We are not free, separate, and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way."


              Thomas Mann 

               Paula Baker
              Researching Cole, Wilkerson, Norman, and White in Georgia, South Carolina, and Louisiana and
              Baker, Tyson, Manning, and Stocks in North Carolina


              "We are not free, separate, and independent entities, but like links in a chain, and we could not by any means be what we are without those who went before us and showed us the way."


              Thomas Mann





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • DAVID SMITH
              grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall.  ... From: cheryl rhoden Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and
              Message 6 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
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                grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

                --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...> wrote:


                From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...>
                Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM








                Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

                I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
                Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
                I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
                Faye Hays
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: cheryl rhoden
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
                Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

                Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                ____________ _________ _________ __
                From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
                Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                Cheryl,

                Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
                River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
                Simpson and
                Grimesland.

                Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

                Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

                http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

                Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
                Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

                Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

                The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

                and

                The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

                Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
                detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

                Trish Worthington Cobb

                On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
                >
                > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
                > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
                > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
                > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
                > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
                >
                > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
                > Cheryl Rhoden
                >
                > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
                > Davis/Chancy and more.
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • cheryl rhoden
                David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers
                Message 7 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o




                  ________________________________
                  From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@...>
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek





                  grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

                  --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                  Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM

                  Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

                  I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                  ____________ _________ _________ __
                  From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                  You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
                  I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
                  Faye Hays
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: cheryl rhoden
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                  Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

                  Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                  ____________ _________ _________ __
                  From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                  Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                  Cheryl,

                  Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
                  River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
                  Simpson and
                  Grimesland.

                  Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

                  Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

                  http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

                  Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
                  Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

                  Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

                  The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

                  and

                  The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

                  Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
                  detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

                  Trish Worthington Cobb

                  On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
                  >
                  > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
                  > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
                  > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
                  > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
                  > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
                  >
                  > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
                  > Cheryl Rhoden
                  >
                  > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
                  > Davis/Chancy and more.
                  >

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                • Jim M.
                  Rigney Murphy and Guilford Murphy seem to be somehow related. I think the Blounts were just friends. Someone has circa 1750 s to 1790 s Murphey family letters.
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Rigney Murphy and Guilford Murphy seem to be somehow related. I think the Blounts were just friends. Someone has circa 1750's to 1790's Murphey family letters. I remember one mentioned Pitt Co. horse races with Blackledge, I think his name was? I know my ancestors would roll over in their graves (I was so tickled when I learned some distant, distant relative descendant, via (forget the term), had converted my very aristocratic Episcopal (post slave holder), ex-Quaker (pre-slaveholder), Capt. Richard Bradley, Sr., in to a Mormon; if we looked into his grave: bet he'd rolled over ten times? ) if they heard me even hint at the possibility. I think my Shadrack Johnson was in Pitt Co. the 1750's from S.E. Va. I don't know who his parents were and guess he may have been born c1710 to 1730's? When was Jamestown founded, about 1610? About twenty years or so after the whites arrived, I think the blacks arrived not as "slaves" per se, but technically as indentured servants. Alledgedly, one of the first had his several years only indenture purchased by a white Mr. Johnson who's name the black took, and repaid it off early, and wed a daughter of the white Johnson. Before the black's death, slavery as such had evolved, and the black Johnson died a slave owner. Likely these "black" (to me neither "black" nor "White", but rather "duel-heritage") Johnson preferred to marry "up" (ie free whites) rather than "down" (black slaves) and in four or five generations were "white"; which is about the time Shadrack Johnson, perhaps with no connection, arrives on-scene. Alternatively Shadracks descent from one of the white brothers of the white wife of black Mr. Johnson, is statistically, more likely. I've had that DNA genealogy done. It did catch my 1600/1700's French Pyrenees Mountains blood, but black blood was not mentioned. Question: if I had a black forebear at Jamestown, maybe 13 to 15 generations back, and he was my only black ancestor until then, would the DNA genealogy test catch that? However my DNA genealogy cookie crumbles, I didn't pick my ancestors.

                    To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                    From: rhodenccc@...
                    Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 10:37:46 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek




























                    Jim,



                    I think I've read this three times now ,, I just enjoyed reading it. You do make those old times come alive. The book I mentioned yesterday did have the formation map for Pitt that showed both Dobbs Co to the SSW and Craven to the SSE adjacent to Pitt, and Dobbs. Pitt was formed in 1760, but I did read that it all didn't take effect for a few years. Some of the old maps I have found (half or more of which I cannot read even with my great-grandmother's magnifying glass) do list the properties and landholders of same on them. Seems like most of them settled along rivers and creeks ,, likely for access by boat and ships.



                    I am still sorting out in my brain the various reformations of "precincts" into 'counties' so we can target our own research.



                    And, the Blount family was not too far away ,, so I'd keep checking on them as well. The naming tradition that another researcher on this site posted not to long ago mentioned that middle names were either family names or close friends. I think that was a great tip. If I run across your Murphy family in our reseach I will let you know.



                    I live in So Cal and I laugh because I think before this research is done I will know historical NC better than I know California.



                    great good luck to you in your research ,, cheryl rhoden o7o



                    ----- Original Message ----

                    From: Jim M. <focusoninfinity@...>

                    To: "genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com" <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>

                    Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 8:37:57 PM

                    Subject: RE: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                    A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and possibly today in Pitt; is the site of the c1770's "Bear Garden" plantation of Capt. John Murphy, Sr. I descend his son Capt. Wm. Murphey, brother of Capt. Michael Murphey, Capt. Jethro Murphey, and Wilhelmenia "Billie" Murphey. Capt. William Murphey had my Wm. Spencer Murphey and Wm. Blount Murphey (doubt they had Blount blood?)(Spencer witnessed the will of John Gray Blount). Spencer's land adjoined Blount Hall on Contentnea (spelling?) Creek. An old letter shows a dinner seating arrangement at Blount Hall and a comment, "the Blounts were arguing again". Spencer's place became the Shadrack "Shade" and Mary Elizabeth "Eliza" Murphey Wooten farm at Johnson's Mills between St. John's Epis. Church and the Craven Co., line. Shade's grandfather was Shadrack Johnson). A millstone is at the bottom of the outside stairway to the kitchen house behind the Shade Wooten home. Jim Wooten of Tucson,

                    former head of FBI Cold War counter intelligence, was the last Wooten born in the home. When I visited it decades ago, farmer Taylor lived there. He was kin to (Julia?) Taylor, Rev. Edw. Wooten's (Sgt. & Lt. CSA) first wife. I descend his second wife, Mrs. Eliza Yonge Jewett Wootten of Wilmington. Their daughter who died circa an older teenager, Miss. Mary Murphey (with an 'e' on the tombstone) Wootten, is buried Oakdale Cemetery, Wilmington, with Rev. and Mrs. Wootten (he added an extra 't'). One night at dinner at the old 11 S. Third St., Hill-Wright-Wootten home adjoing St. James Epis., Wilmington, Mary said she felt ill and was going up-stairs to die. Every body said to not talk such; she was found dead the next morning in her fourth floor bedroom. The fouth floor was no longer used in my many summer nights on the third floor; alone at night I was spooked there enough; the St. James Cemetery behind us. My late great aunt, Mrs. Amoret Cameron Wootten

                    Davis who died age 96, as a child played in the cemetery and crawled between the crumbling bricks holding up a long old slab tombstone. She was playing with the bones; the sexton or some such, caught her. The next Sunday, the preacher high in the pulpit (the Wootten, Jewett, Bradley bench was the third one back if memory serves; from the days of family owned pews; locals did not occupy other's pews, but if an away person was there; one said nothing and sat in the back) condemed little children playing colonist's bones--a no-no. I think the house was rebuilt in 1802 after the city fire of 1799? Amoret had a big 1775 British penny she'd found in the sand in the backyard. All five Wootten kids had house chores based on age. Older Bradley Jewett Wootten's was to gather all the kerosine lights in the morning to the shet behind the kitchen building, and refill them. Mother's (Leila James Wootten Miller) was to wash the lamp's glass chimneys, and re-attach

                    them so Bradley could redistribute them. Little Ned Wootten's (later Col. USAF, Cold War asst. air attche to ol'Mockba, and air attache to Poland) task was to wind all the clocks on all the floors. What Little Mary Malone Wootten did, and her older sister Eliza Yonge Wootten (Lt. nurse U.S. Army, WWII) did, I don't know. A doctor rented the half front floor, back basement for an office. One day going down the slopeing driveway, in a trashcan, I espied a white leg cast, but thought that it was a human leg (not bright kid); and went screaming back inside to mother; "There's a human leg in the trasdh can". Another Wootten girl, very young, died in the mountains from eating a wild berry that was poisonous. I imagine this was At Saluda, N.C., where mother was born 1914, the last year the family had the cottage time from when in the hot summers, men stayed in Wilmington, but families took the train to the high mountain cool air. Before trains, they could only

                    go by steamboat to say Seven Springs, or Hillsborough. To walk amongst the Epis. church graves at Hillsborough uis to see again the names of colonial Wilmington families who's people died there in the hat summer. Jim Miller, Southport, N.C., where great, great grandfather, Stephen Jewett, IV, from 1838 Maine, came down to then Smithville (Southport) to be it's postmaster and wed second Lucy Anna Bradley, the daughter of Richard Bradley, Jr., who signed the Bank of Cape fear money. Jewett would sign Bank of Wilmington money. He is buried at the chapel at "Airlie Gardens"; once the sight of the Bradley family summer home on Bradley's Creek.



                    To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

                    From: rhodenccc@...

                    Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:00:42 -0700

                    Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek













                    Thanks Trish, Our local library is still under construction (we will be thrilled when it is built) ,, this is a very rural area here in So Cal. So, they aren't quite ready for my inquiry.



                    I have found 'county reformation' maps for NC ,, but I really need to get specific. I and my cousins are 'dogs on the hunt' now and we are determined to figure this out. Determined ,, as in really determined. Thanks for the tips. all best, cheryl rhoden o7o



                    ________________________________



                    From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@...>



                    To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com



                    Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:40:48 PM



                    Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                    Cheryl,



                    See if you can get a copy of The Formation of the North Carolina



                    Counties by David Leroy Corbitt. It explains the formation of each



                    county and which county was divided to make the new county. Your



                    local library should have it, or can get it for you through inter-



                    library loan, or you can order it on-line from Barnes & Noble or from



                    Amazon.com.



                    It explains it much better than I can.



                    Trish



                    On Jul 13, 2009, at 4:43 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:



                    >



                    > Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference



                    > today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a



                    > good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful



                    > info about early Pitt Co.



                    >



                    > Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA



                    > before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and



                    > followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't



                    > have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing



                    > overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may



                    > have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly



                    > from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great



                    > Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl



                    > rhoden o7o



                    >



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                    ------------------------------------



                    Pitt County Historical Society: http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/



                    CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering information:

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                    RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm



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                    We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.

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                  • DAVID SMITH
                    im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it s on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.  
                      http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3405%20Yankee%20Hall%20Road&city=Greenville&state=NC&zipcode=27834&country=US&cid=lfmaplink
                       
                      as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes.    if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road"  grindle is a very long body of water.  thanks!
                      --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...> wrote:


                      From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...>
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM








                      David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o

                      ____________ _________ _________ __
                      From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                      grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

                      --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

                      From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                      Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM

                      Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

                      I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                      ____________ _________ _________ __
                      From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                      You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
                      I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
                      Faye Hays
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: cheryl rhoden
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                      Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

                      Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                      ____________ _________ _________ __
                      From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                      Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                      Cheryl,

                      Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
                      River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
                      Simpson and
                      Grimesland.

                      Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

                      Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

                      http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

                      Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
                      Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

                      Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

                      The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

                      and

                      The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

                      Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
                      detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

                      Trish Worthington Cobb

                      On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
                      >
                      > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
                      > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
                      > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
                      > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
                      > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
                      >
                      > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
                      > Cheryl Rhoden
                      >
                      > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
                      > Davis/Chancy and more.
                      >

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                    • Jim M.
                      Is Green County defunct? If so, I may have mixed it up with Dobbs, but doubt it. Twenty years ago in State archives Raleigh, the archivist was attempting
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Is Green County defunct? If so, I may have mixed it up with Dobbs, but doubt it. Twenty years ago in State archives Raleigh, the archivist was attempting reconstitute records for Dobbs Co. My Lt. Arthur Forbes, Sr. (believed in education, we both share that value still) was on the Pitt Co. Comm. of Secrecy, Intelligence and Observation (Jim Wooten, ex-Cold War head of FBI counter intelligence is also a descendant. That's mom's side, on dad's side I desc. 2nd Maj. James Smith, Sr., of the Rowan Com. of Secrecy, Intelligence and Observation. I was talking with a retired CIA fella' and book writer who know all about Committees of Safety, but was amazed he'd never hear of the CofSIO sub-committees in many counties. There were also committees of correspondence: communications. Anyway, I'd never connected Forbes with Dobbs County--but there it was. It was the ya or nay votes of the perhaps thirty men (no women's names) allowed to vote on the acceptance of the US Constitution. There too, a tiny printed version of the Constitution. Anyway Patriot Forbes voted against the U.S. Constitution. Too radical Liberal a document I thought? That was in my right-wing ideology days--I was delighted. Today I do not cotton to the notion that "facts" should be acceptable or not, based on the facts acceptability to conforming to either right-wing or left-wing ideology. Rather ideologies, should conform to the facts.

                        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                        From: amaryllish@...
                        Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:30:16 -0400
                        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


























                        I love all this wonderful history. Please tell me your name. My Murphey

                        family is Jack Murphey, married Winifred Unknown and lived in Greene County,

                        NC. Their daughter Nancy Mary Murphey married my great grandfather Jacob

                        Wainwright. Their son James Murphey married Jacob's sister Catherine

                        Wainwright. No one knows anything about this Murphey family and I have not been able

                        to trace them back anywhere. They were there the same time and same area

                        that Thomas Murphey & family was (1810-1880), but everyone around here says

                        they are not related. I don't know.... I've mostly been working on my

                        Wainwright's and Turner's as well as Hunt's and Sizemore's (My husbands

                        families). Again, Just wanted to say thank you for your excellenct information.

                        Amy W. Hunt Ancestor Seekers of Farmville &

                        Greene County Researchers, Inc.

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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jim M.
                        While don t know this for sure; this is my speculation. up to the 1850 s, where Shade Wooten lived, was called Johnson s Mills to the post office. Don t think
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          While don't know this for sure; this is my speculation. up to the 1850's, where Shade Wooten lived, was called Johnson's Mills to the post office. Don't think of romantic visions of big watermills and dams, but of millstones only three or four feet across. Think of a long, narrow, not too deep canal (ditch) to/from the river from low areas to high ground. The Johnson's Mill's canal may have been dug by Blackledge? Thirty years ago in the basement of the Pitt register of deeds vault, I met a lawyer who ever heard me tell the register of deeds I wanted to look in a perhaps ten miles longs by one or two miles wide strip of Pitt Co. that remain in Craven Co. for a decade or two after Pitt was founded, and then added to Pitt. The lawyer said he did not know that. That he had attempted to settle a contemporary boundryline dispute based on historical legal records, but could not find the records in Pitt Co. I said because they were, and still are, in Craven. He'd settled it by mutual agreement. Every N.C. register of deeds vault should have a copy of N.C. state archives book, the legal histories (geographically) of the counties. That's where I learned it. If the Pitt vault does not have it; there's a project for the Pitt genealogy or historical society and perhaps a newspaper squib about the donation.

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                          From: carolinaguyesq@...
                          Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 13:01:02 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek


























                          im going to try to send you a link to the google map. it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt county very near to beaufort. i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.

                          http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?address=3405%20Yankee%20Hall%20Road&city=Greenville&state=NC&zipcode=27834&country=US&cid=lfmaplink



                          as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes. if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road" grindle is a very long body of water. thanks!

                          --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...> wrote:



                          From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@...>

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com

                          Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM



                          David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o



                          ____________ _________ _________ __

                          From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

                          Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                          grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall.



                          --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:



                          From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

                          Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM



                          Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc? Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.



                          I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o



                          ____________ _________ _________ __

                          From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

                          Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                          You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.

                          I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.

                          Faye Hays

                          ----- Original Message -----

                          From: cheryl rhoden

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

                          Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                          Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.



                          Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o



                          ____________ _________ _________ __

                          From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>

                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com

                          Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM

                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek



                          Cheryl,



                          Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar

                          River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between

                          Simpson and

                          Grimesland.



                          Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.



                          Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.



                          http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf



                          Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.

                          Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.



                          Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:



                          The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell



                          and



                          The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.



                          Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very

                          detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.



                          Trish Worthington Cobb



                          On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:

                          >

                          > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River

                          > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't

                          > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.

                          > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the

                          > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.

                          >

                          > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,

                          > Cheryl Rhoden

                          >

                          > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/

                          > Davis/Chancy and more.

                          >



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                        • cheryl rhoden
                          Daviid  ,, Thank you!! This was a great link. I cannot believe that it still looks like nothing is there. I tried to zoom in and I still didn t see a house or
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jul 14, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Daviid  ,, Thank you!! This was a great link. I cannot believe that it still looks like nothing is there. I tried to zoom in and I still didn't see a house or any outbuildings. Why is that?

                            The deed info we have is on the North side of the Tar River and  Grindle's Creek. Course ,, we have a lot of other deed info for Moores and we're trying to sort that out.

                            And, what really amazes me is that the various properties other ancestors lived on in GA/FL are still just as rural as they likely were all those years ago. And, half or more of us in our cousin research group also live in very rural areas. Must be in the blood. Thanks again for that link. All best,
                            Cheryl Rhoden o7o




                            ________________________________
                            From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@...>
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:01:02 PM
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek





                            im going to try to send you a link to the google map.  it's on the north side of the tar river in eastern pitt  county very near to beaufort.  i cross over grindle creek every day on the way to work.  
                            http://www.mapquest .com/maps/ map.adp?address= 3405%20Yankee% 20Hall%20Road& city=Greenville& state=NC& zipcode=27834& country=US& cid=lfmaplink
                             
                            as you can see if you change the map to aerial, there is nothing there now as far as buildings go....where grindle meets the tar....and most of the land east of grindle up to grimesland bridge road is either old swamp or is man made lakes.    if you are looking for moore's that settled on grindle you may be looking for the family that settle further up on grindle....on "old creek road"  grindle is a very long body of water.  thanks!
                            --- On Tue, 7/14/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

                            From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 3:48 PM

                            David, thanks ,,, please keep in mind that I am in Southern California ,,, although before this search is over I am positive I will know the creeks and rivers of NC better than I do those in Ca. Where would I find 'pactolus/yankee hall' ?? This is fun. It is also annoying ,, but in a fun way. Trust you fellow researchers know what I mean. all best,, cheryl o7o

                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                            From: DAVID SMITH <carolinaguyesq@ yahoo.com>
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:27:30 PM
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                            grindle creek pours into the tar river near pactolus/yankee hall. 

                            --- On Mon, 7/13/09, cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com> wrote:

                            From: cheryl rhoden <rhodenccc@yahoo. com>
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Date: Monday, July 13, 2009, 6:34 PM

                            Faye, When you say you were "surprised at how far down the line came into NC..." did you mean the boundary change between Va and Nc?  Thanks for the tip on latitude and longitude. From what I read the1728 survey was along the VA/NC border and 15 miles due north and south became NC. We're trying to get a handle on that so we know whether we need to start to also look back into VA records.

                            I appreciate all the comments from everyone. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                            From: jonefa <jonefa@embarqmail. com>
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:14:23 PM
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                            You can do a search and find the lattitude and longitude of the earliest boundaries of the land granted to the early proprietors of the colonial lands. I have seen it, probably have it tucked away somewhere, but you can find it by googling it.
                            I was surpised by how far down the line came into North Carolina and present day cities. Been quite a while since I looked at it so won't make comments on it.
                            Faye Hays
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: cheryl rhoden
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                            Trish and Julian ,, Thank you both. I also found a great reference today called: "Sketches of Pitt County" by Henry T. King. It has a good number of old maps (maps you can actually read) and wonderful info about early Pitt Co.

                            Trish: Why do you think that sections of Pitt were not part of VA before the survey in 1728? The old maps I found today preceeded and followed that survey ,, so heck if I know exactly and they didn't have 'scale' ,, so you can't really figure out without doing overlays of the old and the new. It does seem like that section may have been in early Albemarle County??? And Pitt was formed mostly from Beaufort Co. (And, I still love the reference to the "Great Dismal Swamp." ) Thank you both again for these tips. best, cheryl rhoden o7o

                            ____________ _________ _________ __
                            From: Trish Worthington Cobb <turniproots@ mac.com>
                            To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                            Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:43:12 AM
                            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Tar River and Grindal's Creek

                            Cheryl,

                            Grindle Creek rises in n.e. Pitt County and flows s.e. into the Tar
                            River on the north side of the river east of Greenville between
                            Simpson and
                            Grimesland.

                            Sometimes spelled Grindal or Grindool on old maps and deeds.

                            Here is a link to a map that shows it very clearly.

                            http://www.ncfloodm aps.com/pubdocs/ Tar-Pamlico/ Pitt_Comm_ Rec.pdf

                            Pitt County was never part of the Colony of Virginia.
                            Pitt County was formed from a part of Beaufort County, NC in 1760.

                            Two useful reference books that I would not be without are:

                            The North Carolina Gazetteer by William S. Powell

                            and

                            The Formation of the North Carolina Counties by David Leroy Corbitt.

                            Also, if you can find one, DeLorme's North Carolina Gazetteer has very
                            detailed maps with the waterways and poquosins on them.

                            Trish Worthington Cobb

                            On Jul 13, 2009, at 12:44 PM, cheryl rhoden wrote:
                            >
                            > Good morning, I'm trying to figure out the location of the Tar River
                            > and Grindal's Creek. I can find both on Internet maps but I can't
                            > figure out where they may intersect. Any clues would be appreciated.
                            > And, I'd love to figure out if that location was in Va prior to the
                            > 1728 survey that changed the state boundary lines.
                            >
                            > We're still trying to sort out our John and Moses Moores. Thanks,
                            > Cheryl Rhoden
                            >
                            > Researching: Moore/Rhoden/ Raulerson/ Johns/Music/ Dowling/Altman/
                            > Davis/Chancy and more.
                            >

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                          • rhodenccc
                            Jim, I was searching the Pitt Deed Notes today and found references to William Murphy. I hope this link works:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jul 18, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Jim,

                              I was searching the Pitt Deed Notes today and found references to William Murphy.

                              I hope this link works:

                              www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ncpcfr/pittdeednotes.htm

                              Scroll to entry # 150 and entry # 497. There are also a good number of references to the Blounts. best, cheryl o7o--- In genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com, Jim M. <focusoninfinity@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > A place I'd like to locate once in old, now defunct Dobbs Co., and
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