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Re: Order of naming children in North Carolina

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  • Margaret Smith
    I ve seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 5, 2008
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      I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such families, though, it would break down in some lines. Say a third son James, named for his father James, has children. His first son, named for his paternal grandfather, would be James also. And if the mother's father was also James, then the family really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A similar situation would arise with girls' names.I doubt that many, if any, families followed the pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a long way toward explaining the confusion so many of us face with the same names appearing over and over in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing the same name even in one generation!

      Margaret Lindsey Smith

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Carol Singh
      Dear Margaret, It certainly does, doesn t it. And what a problem it causes when two or more brothers give their sons the same name. What a genealogical
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 6, 2008
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        Dear Margaret,
        It certainly does, doesn't it. And what a problem
        it causes when two or more brothers give their sons
        the same name. What a genealogical nightmare!
        Later, Carol
        --- Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...> wrote:

        >
        > I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland,
        > and would guess that any families in North Carolina
        > that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
        > families, though, it would break down in some lines.
        > Say a third son James, named for his father James,
        > has children. His first son, named for his paternal
        > grandfather, would be James also. And if the
        > mother's father was also James, then the family
        > really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A
        > similar situation would arise with girls' names.I
        > doubt that many, if any, families followed the
        > pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a
        > long way toward explaining the confusion so many of
        > us face with the same names appearing over and over
        > in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing
        > the same name even in one generation!
        >
        > Margaret Lindsey Smith
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >
      • Louise
        Thanks for your information.  Our family are Nichols or Nicholas.  I think my immigrant ancester came from England, but there are some relatives that think
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 7, 2008
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          Thanks for your information.  Our family are Nichols or Nicholas.  I think my immigrant ancester came from England, but there are some relatives that think we are Scottish.  That means more work to come to be sure.  I really enjoy learning about our genealogy.  We have also done the DNA and have connected to earlier Nichols families.

          --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...> wrote:

          From: Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...>
          Subject: [genpcncfir] Re: Order of naming children in North Carolina
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:05 AM

          I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that
          any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
          families, though, it would break down in some lines. Say a third son James,
          named for his father James, has children. His first son, named for his paternal
          grandfather, would be James also. And if the mother's father was also James,
          then the family really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A similar
          situation would arise with girls' names.I doubt that many, if any, families
          followed the pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a long way toward
          explaining the confusion so many of us face with the same names appearing over
          and over in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing the same name even in
          one generation!

          Margaret Lindsey Smith

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Marcia McLawhorn
          Judy, Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860], daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 7, 2008
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            Judy,
            Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860], daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
            Eighteen for her wedding.

            Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

            If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

            - - - - -

            Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
            That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!


            - - - - -

            Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
            I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
            Marcia

            "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@...> wrote:

            From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
            ...
            Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
            ...
            R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
            ...



            .






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Martha-Gay Morton
            Judy and Marcia, I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS. 1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 8, 2008
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              Judy and Marcia,
              I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS.
              1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and Elizabeth DOWNS marries Della Randolph [age 18] daughter of Charles A. and Rutha Randolph, Belvoir, NC.
              1880 Belvoir Post Office, Pitt County NC DOWNS, Jesse 30 WM, Deller 22 WF,
              Ruthy 1 WF. 1890 Census burned. 1900 Pitt County, Belvoir, DOWNS, Jesse 56 WM, Della 47 WF, Rutha 20 WF, Lucie 7 wf [neice]. Although Cannan [Kenyon] and Elizabeth DOWNS are named as heirs of Jacob MAYO 1849 January 11th, DB 'MM' page 252,
              Betty Cassidy and I are both convinced that Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY
              and not MAYO. Wiley and Jesse P. were twins. Unable to find death certificate for Jesse but Wiley's death certificate staes DOB February 14th 1844, Wiley's DOD August 27th 1935, age 91 years, 6 months, 14 days. Father: Kenyon Downs and Mother: Betsy Briley. Informant: S.V. Clark. Williams Funeral Home G'ville, buried Windham [Windom] Graveyard. [Do not know where this cemetery is located] Pitt Co Death Index Vol 22,
              page 468. Let me know what you think.
              Martha-Gay Morton

              --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

              From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
              Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 7:34 PM






              Judy,
              Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860] , daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
              Eighteen for her wedding.

              Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

              If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

              - - - - -

              Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
              That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!

              - - - - -

              Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
              I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
              Marcia

              "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@embarqmail. com> wrote:

              From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
              ....
              Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
              ....
              R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
              ....

              ..

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Judy N. Lewis
              I have no research on the Randolph or Downs families and know nothing about these families as these are not a part of my family lines.  I was just throwing
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 8, 2008
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                I have no research on the Randolph or Downs families and know nothing about these families as these are not a part of my family lines.  I was just throwing out some info.

                Judy
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Martha-Gay Morton" <marthagay.morton@...>
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 10:30:40 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
                Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters







                Judy and Marcia,
                I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS.
                1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and Elizabeth DOWNS marries Della Randolph [age 18] daughter of Charles A. and Rutha Randolph, Belvoir, NC.
                1880 Belvoir Post Office, Pitt County NC DOWNS, Jesse 30 WM, Deller 22 WF,
                Ruthy 1 WF. 1890 Census burned. 1900 Pitt County, Belvoir, DOWNS, Jesse 56 WM, Della 47 WF, Rutha 20 WF, Lucie 7 wf [neice]. Although Cannan [Kenyon] and Elizabeth DOWNS are named as heirs of Jacob MAYO 1849 January 11th, DB 'MM' page 252,
                Betty Cassidy and I are both convinced that Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY
                and not MAYO. Wiley and Jesse P. were twins. Unable to find death certificate for Jesse but Wiley's death certificate staes DOB February 14th 1844, Wiley's DOD August 27th 1935, age 91 years, 6 months, 14 days. Father: Kenyon Downs and Mother: Betsy Briley. Informant: S.V. Clark. Williams Funeral Home G'ville, buried Windham [Windom] Graveyard. [Do not know where this cemetery is located] Pitt Co Death Index Vol 22,
                page 468. Let me know what you think.
                Martha-Gay Morton

                --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Marcia McLawhorn < marcia_mclawhorn@... > wrote:

                From: Marcia McLawhorn < marcia_mclawhorn@... >
                Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 7:34 PM

                Judy,
                Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860] , daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
                Eighteen for her wedding.

                Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

                If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

                - - - - -

                Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
                That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!

                - - - - -

                Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
                I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
                Marcia

                "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@embarqmail. com> wrote:

                From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
                ....
                Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
                ....
                R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
                ....

                ..

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Marcia McLawhorn
                Martha, Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof. Assuming
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                  Martha,
                  Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                  Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday]. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                  Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                  Marcia



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Martha-Gay Morton
                  Marcia,   So glad to hear from you.   I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                    Marcia,
                     
                    So glad to hear from you.
                     
                    I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.
                     
                    Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                    is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                    John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.
                     
                    Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                    of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had  a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..
                     
                    I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                    Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley. 
                     
                    Look forward to hearing from you.
                     
                    Martha-Gay MORTON

                    --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                    From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                    Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                    To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM






                    Martha,
                    Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                    Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday].. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                    Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                    Marcia

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Marcia McLawhorn
                    Hi Martha, I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                      Hi Martha,
                      I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding logically to data given by another.

                      The "rule of thumb" I use to resolve conflicting dates on reliable source(s) is to give preference to those records, which are closest to the actual event. Death certificates are primary sources for death dates, but secondary or tertiary for birth dates.

                      Research this morning indicates the data for 1850 - 1900 censuses were not only collected on Jun 1st, but were also based " as of Jun 1st " [not Jan 1st as I was thinking yesterday].

                      Here's my thoughts about twins, Jesse & Willy birth date:
                      1) They were born on Feb 14 based on Willy's death certificate. Most people and their families know on what month and day they are born!

                      2) They were born in 1849, based on the predominance of data that indicates that.
                      On 1 Jun 1950, they would be 16.5 months, whereas if they were born in 1848 they would be almost 30 months. Contributing thoughts are:

                      No new babies in the household to cause confusion;
                      Even if the information provider was unaware or uneducated, most can tell the difference between a 1 year old versus an older child;
                      With four children under 6, it was more likely mom was in the house when info was given.

                      In this case, the 1850 & 1860 census data agree with the 1849 year of birth.
                      Jesse's marriage certificate & 1870 census are only off by one year (they lost count?).
                      I am dismissive of later census data, as it may have been provided by a spouse or child, because he's out working.

                      I have to go out and do some shopping. I am planning to be on the east coast this next month. If I could check for info at Pitt County or elsewhere let me know. As soon as I have a firm schedule, I was thinking to be at a restaurant and send out "come and meet me" invites.
                      Sincerely, Marcia


                      Martha-Gay Morton <marthagay.morton@...> wrote:
                      Marcia,

                      So glad to hear from you.

                      I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.

                      Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                      is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                      John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.

                      Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                      of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..

                      I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                      Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley.

                      Look forward to hearing from you.

                      Martha-Gay MORTON

                      --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                      From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                      Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM

                      Martha,
                      Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                      Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday].. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                      Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                      Marcia

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Martha-Gay Morton
                      Marcia,   I live in Greenville, NC. If you are going to be in the neighborhood would like to meet you and talk genealogy. Also have some Deed info and glad to
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                        Marcia,
                         
                        I live in Greenville, NC. If you are going to be in the neighborhood would like to meet you and talk genealogy. Also have some Deed info and glad to share. Let me know your schedule.
                         
                        Martha-Gay

                        --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                        From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:33 PM






                        Hi Martha,
                        I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding logically to data given by another.

                        The "rule of thumb" I use to resolve conflicting dates on reliable source(s) is to give preference to those records, which are closest to the actual event. Death certificates are primary sources for death dates, but secondary or tertiary for birth dates.

                        Research this morning indicates the data for 1850 - 1900 censuses were not only collected on Jun 1st, but were also based " as of Jun 1st " [not Jan 1st as I was thinking yesterday].

                        Here's my thoughts about twins, Jesse & Willy birth date:
                        1) They were born on Feb 14 based on Willy's death certificate. Most people and their families know on what month and day they are born!

                        2) They were born in 1849, based on the predominance of data that indicates that.
                        On 1 Jun 1950, they would be 16.5 months, whereas if they were born in 1848 they would be almost 30 months. Contributing thoughts are:

                        No new babies in the household to cause confusion;
                        Even if the information provider was unaware or uneducated, most can tell the difference between a 1 year old versus an older child;
                        With four children under 6, it was more likely mom was in the house when info was given.

                        In this case, the 1850 & 1860 census data agree with the 1849 year of birth..
                        Jesse's marriage certificate & 1870 census are only off by one year (they lost count?).
                        I am dismissive of later census data, as it may have been provided by a spouse or child, because he's out working.

                        I have to go out and do some shopping. I am planning to be on the east coast this next month. If I could check for info at Pitt County or elsewhere let me know. As soon as I have a firm schedule, I was thinking to be at a restaurant and send out "come and meet me" invites.
                        Sincerely, Marcia


                        Martha-Gay Morton <marthagay.morton@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                        Marcia,

                        So glad to hear from you.

                        I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.

                        Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                        is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                        John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.

                        Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                        of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..

                        I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                        Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley.

                        Look forward to hearing from you.

                        Martha-Gay MORTON

                        --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                        From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@ yahoo.com>
                        Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                        To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                        Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM

                        Martha,
                        Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                        Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday]... Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                        Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                        Marcia

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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