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Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina

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  • Judy N. Lewis
    Naming Traditions: First son:  father s father Second son:  mother s father Third son:  father Fourth son:  father s oldest brother Fifth son:  father s
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 4, 2008
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      Naming Traditions:

      First son:  father's father

      Second son:  mother's father

      Third son:  father

      Fourth son:  father's oldest brother

      Fifth son:  father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

      First daughter:  mother's mother

      Second daughter:  father's mother

      Third daughter:  mother

      Fourth daughter:  mother's oldest sister

      Fifth daughter:  mother's second oldest brother or father's oldest sister (I wondered why I have found two daughters by the name of William)

      Middle name:  mother's maiden name of surnames of close friends

      This info was found in the USGenWeb Archives
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Louise" <champright@...>
      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 5:42:06 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
      Subject: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina








      At one time I had a list of how each child in the family was named in a North Carolina family.  Does anyone have that list?  I remember that the first son was named after his two grandfathers.  That practice was carried on to this day in my Nichols family.  The son named after his father (Jr.) was one of the later sons.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gil Harris
      Wow..Thats kinda confusing...I guess my family didnt follow the system..Thank you for that info..Very helpful.. I am the oldest son of Vernon Washington
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 4, 2008
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        Wow..Thats kinda confusing...I guess my family didnt follow the
        system..Thank you for that info..Very helpful..
        I am the oldest son of Vernon Washington Harris and Maddie Dail Harris...
        My great Grandfather was Guilford Harris, my Grandfather was Pinkney
        Harris..So they named me Guilfrord Pinkney Harris..
        My father was born on George Washington's birthday so I guess thats the
        reason for his name..
        Guilford Harris
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@...>
        To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:32 AM
        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina




        Naming Traditions:

        First son: father's father

        Second son: mother's father

        Third son: father

        Fourth son: father's oldest brother

        Fifth son: father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

        First daughter: mother's mother

        Second daughter: father's mother

        Third daughter: mother

        Fourth daughter: mother's oldest sister

        Fifth daughter: mother's second oldest brother or father's oldest sister (I
        wondered why I have found two daughters by the name of William)

        Middle name: mother's maiden name of surnames of close friends

        This info was found in the USGenWeb Archives
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Louise" <champright@...>
        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 5:42:06 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
        Subject: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina








        At one time I had a list of how each child in the family was named in a
        North Carolina family. Does anyone have that list? I remember that the first
        son was named after his two grandfathers. That practice was carried on to
        this day in my Nichols family. The son named after his father (Jr.) was one
        of the later sons.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


        ------------------------------------

        Pitt County Historical Society:
        http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

        CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
        information:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

        Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

        RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
        http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

        Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
        http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

        http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

        We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
        you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
        Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
        GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Judy N. Lewis
        Yes, this is the whole list from these sources. Judy ... From: stephannie brown To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 4, 2008
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          Yes, this is the whole list from these sources.

          Judy
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "stephannie brown" <stephanniewilson@...>
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 3:47:32 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Annie Randolph/Randolph Marriages







          thank you judy is that the whole list? Annie Randolph was first married to Culley or Curly Wilson because her name isn't there does it mean they where never married? or is there somewhere to look? thank you 

          ________________________________
          From: Judy N. Lewis < jnlewis@... >
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 12:20:04 PM
          Subject: [genpcncfir] Annie Randolph/Randolph Marriages

          From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:

          Adelaide Randolph, daughter of Richard Randolph, married on 1/14/1884 A F Corbitt

          Annie Randolph, daughter of T. E. Randolph, married on 12/12/1894 P. S. Quinerly

          Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs

          Harriet Randolph, daughter of Mumul Randolph, married on 4/15/1872 Howell Atkinson

          Harriet Ann Randolph, daughter of Henry Stancill, married on 5/1/1870 Robt Randolph

          Jesse Randolph, daughter of Jesse Randolph, married on 12/21/1887 R. R. Hodges

          Liddia Randolph, daughter of Wilson Randolph, married on 10/22/1870 Robert Freeman

          Prudence Randolph, daugher of Richd Randolph, married on 11/30/1876 Benj B. Pollard

          R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel

          Vedie E. Randolph, daughter of Edward Randolph, married on 10/20/1886 R A Rollins

          From Edgecombe County Marriages:

          Robert Randolph married on 12/22/1831 Jaque A. Ruffin

          Martha P. Randolph married on 10-8-1822 John F. Hughes

          Judy

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "stephannie brown" <stephanniewilson@ yahoo.com>
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 10:55:48 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_ York
          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Name of counties?

          Hello my father has always told me that my grand mother was an Cherokee Indian went by the name of Bright Eyes on the reservation i have checked the Dawes, Miller and Baker rolls and have been unable to find her is there and other way that i can search for her.....her maiden name was Annie Randolph she was married twice to Wilson and Pitt i never knew her mother or fathers name any information that you can provide would be greatly appreciated. 

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: stephannie brown < stephanniewilson@ yahoo.com >
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 3, 2008 10:34:37 AM
          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Name of counties?

          Thank you Everyone

          ____________ _________ _________ __
          From: Evelyn Hendricks < rebh@... >
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2008 4:34:03 PM
          Subject: RE: [genpcncfir] Name of counties?

          There was never any Maxwell Co., NC and I have never heard of the Chicoa
          reference. I wish I knew where to tell you search for the state that has
          these counties, but I don't know where to begin looking for them.

          Evelyn

          _____

          From: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com [mailto:genpcncfir@ yahoogro ups.com] On
          Behalf Of sistajme
          Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 4:17 PM
          To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
          Subject: [genpcncfir] Name of counties?

          Hello everyone does anyone know if there's a Maxwell County NC or was
          there ever an Maxwell County also is there or was there an Chicoa Pitt
          County NC because i cannot find it either of them? stephannie

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Louise
          Thank you very much!!!  In our family the first son was named after both grandfathers.  There might be another list.  It seems that on the list that I saw a
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 5, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Thank you very much!!!  In our family the first son was named after both grandfathers.  There might be another list.  It seems that on the list that I saw a few years back that first son was named after the two grandfathers.  I also remember along the line a child was named after a friend of the family.  I wonder why the different lists.  Maybe one list is English and the other Scottish or such.  My brother is named after his two grandfathers.  My uncle is also named after his two grandfathers.  There is always something to research.  A list like this could be a break through if the family consistantly uses a list to name the children. 

            --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Gil Harris <gil@...> wrote:

            From: Gil Harris <gil@...>
            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina
            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 6:52 AM

            Wow..Thats kinda confusing...I guess my family didnt follow the
            system..Thank you for that info..Very helpful..
            I am the oldest son of Vernon Washington Harris and Maddie Dail Harris...
            My great Grandfather was Guilford Harris, my Grandfather was Pinkney
            Harris..So they named me Guilfrord Pinkney Harris..
            My father was born on George Washington's birthday so I guess thats the
            reason for his name..
            Guilford Harris
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@...>
            To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:32 AM
            Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina




            Naming Traditions:

            First son: father's father

            Second son: mother's father

            Third son: father

            Fourth son: father's oldest brother

            Fifth son: father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

            First daughter: mother's mother

            Second daughter: father's mother

            Third daughter: mother

            Fourth daughter: mother's oldest sister

            Fifth daughter: mother's second oldest brother or father's oldest
            sister (I
            wondered why I have found two daughters by the name of William)

            Middle name: mother's maiden name of surnames of close friends

            This info was found in the USGenWeb Archives
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Louise" <champright@...>
            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 5:42:06 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
            Subject: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina








            At one time I had a list of how each child in the family was named in a
            North Carolina family. Does anyone have that list? I remember that the first
            son was named after his two grandfathers. That practice was carried on to
            this day in my Nichols family. The son named after his father (Jr.) was one
            of the later sons.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


            ------------------------------------

            Pitt County Historical Society:
            http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

            CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
            information:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

            Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
            http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

            RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
            http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

            Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
            http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

            http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

            We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
            you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
            Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
            GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
            Yahoo! Groups Links




            ------------------------------------

            Pitt County Historical Society:
            http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

            CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
            information:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

            Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
            http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

            RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
            http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

            Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
            http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

            http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

            We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
            you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern
            and Coastal North Carolina counties.
            GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
            Yahoo! Groups Links








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Louise
            Thank you very much!!!  In our family the first son was named after both grandfathers.  There might be another list.  It seems that on the list that I saw a
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 5, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Thank you very much!!!  In our family the first son was named after both grandfathers.  There might be another list.  It seems that on the list that I saw a few years back that first son was named after the two grandfathers.  I also remember along the line a child was named after a friend of the family.  I wonder why the different lists.  Maybe one list is English and the other Scottish or such.  My brother is named after his two grandfathers.  My uncle is also named after his two grandfathers.  There is always something to research.  A list like this could be a break through if the family consistantly uses a list to name the children. 

              --- On Tue, 11/4/08, Gil Harris <gil@...> wrote:

              From: Gil Harris <gil@...>
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 6:52 AM

              Wow..Thats kinda confusing...I guess my family didnt follow the
              system..Thank you for that info..Very helpful..
              I am the oldest son of Vernon Washington Harris and Maddie Dail Harris...
              My great Grandfather was Guilford Harris, my Grandfather was Pinkney
              Harris..So they named me Guilfrord Pinkney Harris..
              My father was born on George Washington's birthday so I guess thats the
              reason for his name..
              Guilford Harris
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@...>
              To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:32 AM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina




              Naming Traditions:

              First son: father's father

              Second son: mother's father

              Third son: father

              Fourth son: father's oldest brother

              Fifth son: father's second oldest brother or mother's oldest brother

              First daughter: mother's mother

              Second daughter: father's mother

              Third daughter: mother

              Fourth daughter: mother's oldest sister

              Fifth daughter: mother's second oldest brother or father's oldest
              sister (I
              wondered why I have found two daughters by the name of William)

              Middle name: mother's maiden name of surnames of close friends

              This info was found in the USGenWeb Archives
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Louise" <champright@...>
              To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2008 5:42:06 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
              Subject: [genpcncfir] Order of naming children in North Carolina








              At one time I had a list of how each child in the family was named in a
              North Carolina family. Does anyone have that list? I remember that the first
              son was named after his two grandfathers. That practice was carried on to
              this day in my Nichols family. The son named after his father (Jr.) was one
              of the later sons.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


              ------------------------------------

              Pitt County Historical Society:
              http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

              CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
              information:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

              Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
              http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

              RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

              Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

              http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

              We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
              you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
              Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
              GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
              Yahoo! Groups Links




              ------------------------------------

              Pitt County Historical Society:
              http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

              CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
              information:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

              Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
              http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

              RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

              Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

              http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

              We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
              you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern
              and Coastal North Carolina counties.
              GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
              Yahoo! Groups Links








              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Margaret Smith
              I ve seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 5, 2008
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                I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such families, though, it would break down in some lines. Say a third son James, named for his father James, has children. His first son, named for his paternal grandfather, would be James also. And if the mother's father was also James, then the family really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A similar situation would arise with girls' names.I doubt that many, if any, families followed the pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a long way toward explaining the confusion so many of us face with the same names appearing over and over in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing the same name even in one generation!

                Margaret Lindsey Smith

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carol Singh
                Dear Margaret, It certainly does, doesn t it. And what a problem it causes when two or more brothers give their sons the same name. What a genealogical
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 6, 2008
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                  Dear Margaret,
                  It certainly does, doesn't it. And what a problem
                  it causes when two or more brothers give their sons
                  the same name. What a genealogical nightmare!
                  Later, Carol
                  --- Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland,
                  > and would guess that any families in North Carolina
                  > that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
                  > families, though, it would break down in some lines.
                  > Say a third son James, named for his father James,
                  > has children. His first son, named for his paternal
                  > grandfather, would be James also. And if the
                  > mother's father was also James, then the family
                  > really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A
                  > similar situation would arise with girls' names.I
                  > doubt that many, if any, families followed the
                  > pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a
                  > long way toward explaining the confusion so many of
                  > us face with the same names appearing over and over
                  > in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing
                  > the same name even in one generation!
                  >
                  > Margaret Lindsey Smith
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                  > removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Louise
                  Thanks for your information.  Our family are Nichols or Nicholas.  I think my immigrant ancester came from England, but there are some relatives that think
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 7, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks for your information.  Our family are Nichols or Nicholas.  I think my immigrant ancester came from England, but there are some relatives that think we are Scottish.  That means more work to come to be sure.  I really enjoy learning about our genealogy.  We have also done the DNA and have connected to earlier Nichols families.

                    --- On Wed, 11/5/08, Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...> wrote:

                    From: Margaret Smith <mlsmith67@...>
                    Subject: [genpcncfir] Re: Order of naming children in North Carolina
                    To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Wednesday, November 5, 2008, 4:05 AM

                    I've seen this traditional naming list for Scotland, and would guess that
                    any families in North Carolina that used it were Scots immigrants. Even in such
                    families, though, it would break down in some lines. Say a third son James,
                    named for his father James, has children. His first son, named for his paternal
                    grandfather, would be James also. And if the mother's father was also James,
                    then the family really has to start looking elsewhere for names! A similar
                    situation would arise with girls' names.I doubt that many, if any, families
                    followed the pattern strictly for very long, however, it goes a long way toward
                    explaining the confusion so many of us face with the same names appearing over
                    and over in our genealogies, with mulitple cousins sharing the same name even in
                    one generation!

                    Margaret Lindsey Smith

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                    ------------------------------------

                    Pitt County Historical Society:
                    http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

                    CHRONICLES VOL.II AVAILABLE!! Click here for description and ordering
                    information:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/files/

                    Click here to view CHRONICLE PHOTO, use SlideShow:
                    http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir/lst

                    RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form:
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

                    Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

                    http://www.rootsweb.com/~ncpcfr/

                    We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if
                    you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern
                    and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                    GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In Research
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                    Yahoo! Groups Links








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Marcia McLawhorn
                    Judy, Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860], daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
                    Message 9 of 27 , Nov 7, 2008
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                      Judy,
                      Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860], daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
                      Eighteen for her wedding.

                      Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

                      If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

                      - - - - -

                      Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
                      That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!


                      - - - - -

                      Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
                      I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
                      Marcia

                      "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@...> wrote:

                      From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
                      ...
                      Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
                      ...
                      R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
                      ...



                      .






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Martha-Gay Morton
                      Judy and Marcia, I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS. 1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and
                      Message 10 of 27 , Nov 8, 2008
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                        Judy and Marcia,
                        I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS.
                        1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and Elizabeth DOWNS marries Della Randolph [age 18] daughter of Charles A. and Rutha Randolph, Belvoir, NC.
                        1880 Belvoir Post Office, Pitt County NC DOWNS, Jesse 30 WM, Deller 22 WF,
                        Ruthy 1 WF. 1890 Census burned. 1900 Pitt County, Belvoir, DOWNS, Jesse 56 WM, Della 47 WF, Rutha 20 WF, Lucie 7 wf [neice]. Although Cannan [Kenyon] and Elizabeth DOWNS are named as heirs of Jacob MAYO 1849 January 11th, DB 'MM' page 252,
                        Betty Cassidy and I are both convinced that Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY
                        and not MAYO. Wiley and Jesse P. were twins. Unable to find death certificate for Jesse but Wiley's death certificate staes DOB February 14th 1844, Wiley's DOD August 27th 1935, age 91 years, 6 months, 14 days. Father: Kenyon Downs and Mother: Betsy Briley. Informant: S.V. Clark. Williams Funeral Home G'ville, buried Windham [Windom] Graveyard. [Do not know where this cemetery is located] Pitt Co Death Index Vol 22,
                        page 468. Let me know what you think.
                        Martha-Gay Morton

                        --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                        From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                        Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                        To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 7:34 PM






                        Judy,
                        Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860] , daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
                        Eighteen for her wedding.

                        Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

                        If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

                        - - - - -

                        Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
                        That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!

                        - - - - -

                        Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
                        I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
                        Marcia

                        "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@embarqmail. com> wrote:

                        From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
                        ....
                        Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
                        ....
                        R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
                        ....

                        ..

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                      • Judy N. Lewis
                        I have no research on the Randolph or Downs families and know nothing about these families as these are not a part of my family lines.  I was just throwing
                        Message 11 of 27 , Nov 8, 2008
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                          I have no research on the Randolph or Downs families and know nothing about these families as these are not a part of my family lines.  I was just throwing out some info.

                          Judy
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Martha-Gay Morton" <marthagay.morton@...>
                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 10:30:40 AM (GMT-0500) America/New_York
                          Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters







                          Judy and Marcia,
                          I have DOWNS information, if you think this is the Della that married Jesse DOWNS.
                          1878 24th January Jesse P. DOWNS [age 29] son of Kinyin and Elizabeth DOWNS marries Della Randolph [age 18] daughter of Charles A. and Rutha Randolph, Belvoir, NC.
                          1880 Belvoir Post Office, Pitt County NC DOWNS, Jesse 30 WM, Deller 22 WF,
                          Ruthy 1 WF. 1890 Census burned. 1900 Pitt County, Belvoir, DOWNS, Jesse 56 WM, Della 47 WF, Rutha 20 WF, Lucie 7 wf [neice]. Although Cannan [Kenyon] and Elizabeth DOWNS are named as heirs of Jacob MAYO 1849 January 11th, DB 'MM' page 252,
                          Betty Cassidy and I are both convinced that Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY
                          and not MAYO. Wiley and Jesse P. were twins. Unable to find death certificate for Jesse but Wiley's death certificate staes DOB February 14th 1844, Wiley's DOD August 27th 1935, age 91 years, 6 months, 14 days. Father: Kenyon Downs and Mother: Betsy Briley. Informant: S.V. Clark. Williams Funeral Home G'ville, buried Windham [Windom] Graveyard. [Do not know where this cemetery is located] Pitt Co Death Index Vol 22,
                          page 468. Let me know what you think.
                          Martha-Gay Morton

                          --- On Fri, 11/7/08, Marcia McLawhorn < marcia_mclawhorn@... > wrote:

                          From: Marcia McLawhorn < marcia_mclawhorn@... >
                          Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                          To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 7:34 PM

                          Judy,
                          Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, looks like she may be the Della Randolph [b:1859-1860] , daughter of Ruthie Warren & Charles Adams Randolph.
                          Eighteen for her wedding.

                          Jesse Downs, son of Elizabeth "Betsy" Mayo & Kenyon Downs, Jr. [b:1824] and twin of Wiley, is about the right age to be the Groom.

                          If R.A. Randolph, the daughter of C.A. Randolph, is also Annie Laura Randolph and Laura on the 1880 census, then her first name might be Ruth/Ruthie just like her mother...

                          - - - - -

                          Then C.A. Randolph & Chas R. Randolph are both Charles Adams Randolph, who had two wives: Ruthie Warren [should be on 1860 census] and Susan C. Jenkins [on 1880 census]
                          That would make Della and Annie Laura full sisters!

                          - - - - -

                          Looking at the other posts, it's unclear what race the family is that we are trying to find?
                          I've seen multiple incidences where neighboring families of different races naming their children similarly.
                          Marcia

                          "Judy N. Lewis" <jnlewis@embarqmail. com> wrote:

                          From Allen Churchill''s Pitt County Bride Index:
                          ....
                          Della Randolph, daughter of Chas R. Randolph, married on 1/24/1878 Jesse Downs
                          ....
                          R. A. Randolph, daughter of C A Randolph, married on 2/17/1892 Bynum Teel
                          ....

                          ..

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Marcia McLawhorn
                          Martha, Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof. Assuming
                          Message 12 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                            Martha,
                            Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                            Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday]. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                            Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                            Marcia



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Martha-Gay Morton
                            Marcia,   So glad to hear from you.   I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I
                            Message 13 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
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                              Marcia,
                               
                              So glad to hear from you.
                               
                              I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.
                               
                              Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                              is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                              John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.
                               
                              Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                              of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had  a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..
                               
                              I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                              Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley. 
                               
                              Look forward to hearing from you.
                               
                              Martha-Gay MORTON

                              --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                              From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                              Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                              To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                              Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM






                              Martha,
                              Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                              Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday].. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                              Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                              Marcia

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


















                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Marcia McLawhorn
                              Hi Martha, I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding
                              Message 14 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Martha,
                                I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding logically to data given by another.

                                The "rule of thumb" I use to resolve conflicting dates on reliable source(s) is to give preference to those records, which are closest to the actual event. Death certificates are primary sources for death dates, but secondary or tertiary for birth dates.

                                Research this morning indicates the data for 1850 - 1900 censuses were not only collected on Jun 1st, but were also based " as of Jun 1st " [not Jan 1st as I was thinking yesterday].

                                Here's my thoughts about twins, Jesse & Willy birth date:
                                1) They were born on Feb 14 based on Willy's death certificate. Most people and their families know on what month and day they are born!

                                2) They were born in 1849, based on the predominance of data that indicates that.
                                On 1 Jun 1950, they would be 16.5 months, whereas if they were born in 1848 they would be almost 30 months. Contributing thoughts are:

                                No new babies in the household to cause confusion;
                                Even if the information provider was unaware or uneducated, most can tell the difference between a 1 year old versus an older child;
                                With four children under 6, it was more likely mom was in the house when info was given.

                                In this case, the 1850 & 1860 census data agree with the 1849 year of birth.
                                Jesse's marriage certificate & 1870 census are only off by one year (they lost count?).
                                I am dismissive of later census data, as it may have been provided by a spouse or child, because he's out working.

                                I have to go out and do some shopping. I am planning to be on the east coast this next month. If I could check for info at Pitt County or elsewhere let me know. As soon as I have a firm schedule, I was thinking to be at a restaurant and send out "come and meet me" invites.
                                Sincerely, Marcia


                                Martha-Gay Morton <marthagay.morton@...> wrote:
                                Marcia,

                                So glad to hear from you.

                                I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.

                                Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                                is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                                John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.

                                Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                                of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..

                                I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                                Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley.

                                Look forward to hearing from you.

                                Martha-Gay MORTON

                                --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                                From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                                Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                                To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM

                                Martha,
                                Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                                Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday].. Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                                Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                                Marcia

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Martha-Gay Morton
                                Marcia,   I live in Greenville, NC. If you are going to be in the neighborhood would like to meet you and talk genealogy. Also have some Deed info and glad to
                                Message 15 of 27 , Nov 9, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Marcia,
                                   
                                  I live in Greenville, NC. If you are going to be in the neighborhood would like to meet you and talk genealogy. Also have some Deed info and glad to share. Let me know your schedule.
                                   
                                  Martha-Gay

                                  --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...> wrote:

                                  From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 7:33 PM






                                  Hi Martha,
                                  I too am not a researcher for either family, but some of the descendants of my lateral lines have a Mayo connections. Originally, I was responding logically to data given by another.

                                  The "rule of thumb" I use to resolve conflicting dates on reliable source(s) is to give preference to those records, which are closest to the actual event. Death certificates are primary sources for death dates, but secondary or tertiary for birth dates.

                                  Research this morning indicates the data for 1850 - 1900 censuses were not only collected on Jun 1st, but were also based " as of Jun 1st " [not Jan 1st as I was thinking yesterday].

                                  Here's my thoughts about twins, Jesse & Willy birth date:
                                  1) They were born on Feb 14 based on Willy's death certificate. Most people and their families know on what month and day they are born!

                                  2) They were born in 1849, based on the predominance of data that indicates that.
                                  On 1 Jun 1950, they would be 16.5 months, whereas if they were born in 1848 they would be almost 30 months. Contributing thoughts are:

                                  No new babies in the household to cause confusion;
                                  Even if the information provider was unaware or uneducated, most can tell the difference between a 1 year old versus an older child;
                                  With four children under 6, it was more likely mom was in the house when info was given.

                                  In this case, the 1850 & 1860 census data agree with the 1849 year of birth..
                                  Jesse's marriage certificate & 1870 census are only off by one year (they lost count?).
                                  I am dismissive of later census data, as it may have been provided by a spouse or child, because he's out working.

                                  I have to go out and do some shopping. I am planning to be on the east coast this next month. If I could check for info at Pitt County or elsewhere let me know. As soon as I have a firm schedule, I was thinking to be at a restaurant and send out "come and meet me" invites.
                                  Sincerely, Marcia


                                  Martha-Gay Morton <marthagay.morton@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                                  Marcia,

                                  So glad to hear from you.

                                  I am not a descendant [that I know of] of either the Downs or the Mayos, but my Hopkins Family were neighbors and I have done extensive work on the Downs, not very much on the Mayos. Be very glad to share what I have.

                                  Wiley and Jesse's birthday is the real 64K dollar question. In 1850 they are 1; 1860 they are 10; 1870 they are 21; 1880 Wiley is 32 and Jesse is 30; 1890 is burned; 1900 Wiley
                                  is 59 and Jesse is 56; 1910 Wiley is 63. I have not found Jesse after 1900 so I just went with the age on Wiley's DC. Elizabeth and Kenyon Downs II [son of Kenyon I and Julia Ann Thomas] had the following children: Wiley, Jesse, Tillman G., Nehemiah Robert,
                                  John William, Arthur Melton, Winnie Elizabeth and James A. Kenyon II m. 2nd Martha Jane Shivers and they had Ann Eliza. I have only found 3 DC's: Wiley, Winnie Eliz. and John. Mother on all 3 is Eliz./Betsy Briley/Brilly.

                                  Although there is no smoking gun I feel certain that Kenyon I is son of Nehemiah Downs
                                  of Pitt County and his 1st wife, name unknown. [ND and my GGG-GF Arnold Hopkins had a common land line on the Great Coneto Creek, very near Conetoe..

                                  I would be very happy to know the name of Margaret's first husband and the children. I have Jacob Mayo's children as: John [m. Appy Windom, d/o Isaiah Windom]] Bennet, Amos, Lewis, Nancy, Amy [not sure if she was a Mayo or a Briley, m.a Cobb], The
                                  Briley children were: Elizabeth [m. Kenyon Downs II], Elkany and Allen [he is listed in the 1850 as Mayo but in the DOL as Briley.

                                  Look forward to hearing from you.

                                  Martha-Gay MORTON

                                  --- On Sun, 11/9/08, Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                                  From: Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@ yahoo.com>
                                  Subject: [genpcncfir] Randolph Marriages: Ruthie Warren & C. A. Randolph's daughters
                                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogro ups.com
                                  Date: Sunday, November 9, 2008, 9:51 AM

                                  Martha,
                                  Thank you for sharing your info. I see you have done much research on this. Perhaps all of us working together will eake out the needed proof.

                                  Assuming Feb 14 as Jesse's birth info and he turned 30 three weeks after his marriage, his birthyear was 1848 [or 1849 if he anticipated his birthday]... Did he fibbed on his marriage certificate or was his twin's death certificate provided the wrong age. The proof would be the on the 1850 census. Looking it up, Willie & Jesse were 1 year old on 1950 census!

                                  Elizabeth's maiden name was BRILEY and not MAYO. Agreed! I had two husbands for Margaret and many children and was unsure which father was hers.
                                  Marcia

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