Yes Bill, that's the same creek. The Rountree place is also ID'd on the 1863 Gilmer map, as well as the homesites of my 2gr-granduncle Arthur Forbes a little to the west of the creek, then a little further west of that, the home of his sister-in-law and my gr-gr-grandmother Martha Forbes (who was a widow by that time), which also happens to be the site of the house where I grew up, which my grandfather built in 1936 when the former house on that site burned down.
When I look at the same locations on 1905 USGS map, I see a couple of dots near the creek, one of which may represent a tavern. Was that the place you once referred to as "The Red House" in an email to me awhile back? Also I see the schoolhouse that Arthur Forbes founded with O.L. Joyner, which is featured on the following link from ECU's Joyner Library: http://www.ecu.edu/cs-lib/archives/bldg_history.cfm?id=67
This little schoolhouse held the distinction of being the first "model school" for training student teachers from new (at that time) East Carolina Teachers Training School (now ECU) early in the 20th century. The old schoolhouse remained on that site until the late 1980's (used as a tobacco packhouse for many of its later years), then one day when I came home for a visit it was gone. I thought it had been demolished but later heard it was relocated to the Pitt County Fairgrounds historical exhibit. Can someone confirm that for me?
Also you may know that one of O.L. Joyner's daughters married a Mr. White, who had a daughter who married Ed Rawl (they were both killed in a plane crash in the 1970's), which is how their son Julian White "Bubba" Rawl acquired the land where he built his current home, very near the old school site. A small group of physicians from PCMH also bought several large lots next to Harris Mill Run and built homes in the woods there... just south of Hwy 43 and east of the Hwy 264 bypass today. You cannot see their houses from either of these roads, but their common driveway crosses the old school lot on the south side of Hwy 43.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Kittrell
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Re: Harris and Randolph families of western Pitt County,and a little more on Randolph's Landing...
Is this the same creek that flowed behind the old Rountree house that sat on
the corner beside B's. Also does it run behind where Mr. Rawls lives now.
The Pollard cemetery is on the south side of the creek behind Mr. Rawls.
Did there use to be a store or tavern near it.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: RE: [genpcncfir] Re: Harris and Randolph families of western Pitt
County,and a little more on Randolph's Landing...
> Liz - Harris Mill Run is ID'd on modern USGS maps as well as a 1905 map I
> have of the area that I can scan and send you. As I mentioned, it runs
> under Falkland Hwy just west of B's BBQ... a place on the road I knew as
> "Dead Man's Curve" when growing up there, and only a few hundred feet SW
> where it flows into a swamp in the Tar River lowgrounds.
> Upstream of there, the run splits into to branches... its southern branch
> "headwaters" are near the J. Harris residence I showed you on the Gilmer
> map, and the other branch runs due west to its "headwaters" at VOA Site C
> today. "Headwater" is a bit of a misnomer for these eatern NC creeks since
> they all start in poorly drained pocosins. So as you can see, this Harris
> Mill Run lies east of your ancestral Harris land near Hwy 121, but not far
> from the J. Harris farm, which is who I expect may have built the namesake
> mill in the 1800's.
> Bob Forbes
> Original Message:
> From: liz_sparrow liz_sparrow@...
> Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2006 15:36:14 +0000
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Subject: [genpcncfir] Re: Harris and Randolph families of western Pitt
> County,and a little more on Randolph's Landing...
> Bob, thanks for calling my attention once again to the Gilmer map.
> I had never noticed the J. Harris residence near Mrs. Allen's so
> that's a clue I need to investigate. My great-grandfather John
> Spencer Harris would have been only 20 in 1863 and didn't marry
> until 1870, so I'm not sure if he's the one or not. Have you seen
> Harris Mill Run on a map, or do you just know where it is? I can't
> find it on my map. On the Gilmer map around Tyson's Creek, off of
> Hwy. 121, are several Harris homes that I know about. The oldest
> home now on Lemon Road was marked as the Overseer's home on the map
> (where Spencer was brought up and was the home of his father,
> Henry). An old road to Falkland (shortcut) used to go right by that
> house. We think that Spencer built a new home across the highway
> around 1850, shown as S. Harris on Gilmer's map; it has recently
> been lovingly restored by Tommy and Jeannette Painter. The one
> marked Henry Harris belonged to Spencer's oldest son who fought in
> the Civil War and lost an arm, I believe; the house has been moved
> and restored and belongs to a Pierce family, if I remember
> correctly. If you ever run across anything about the school on the
> Harris land, please let me know. Wow.....I love this stuff!
> About the Randolphs, My John Randolph married Sarah Ann Harris,
> daughter of Spencer, on 7-25-1854; Sarah Ann died the next year in
> childbirth. John could have married someone else before Sarah and
> lost her too, or it could just be another John Randolph. I enjoyed
> very much reading your recollections. When the weather is cooler
> and the snakes are gone, I may try to explore that area a bit. Those
> were the days.....
> Thanks again for your help..........Liz
> --- In email@example.com, "Bob Forbes" <bforbes@...> wrote:
>> Liz - What I know about the Harris and Randolph families of Pitt
> County NW of Greenville is mostly from Civil War maps and a few deed
> records. And in the case of the Randolphs, some census records and a
> marriage record from my family tree, plus some tidbits of oral
> neighborhood history.
>> I'll start with Gilmer's Civil War map that might give us a clue
> about the naming of Harris Mill Run. I can identify two Harris
> residences in the area from Gilmer's map. The residence of "J.
> Harris" is shown next to the Old Stantonsburg Rd., near its
> intersection (it's Hwy 264 Bus. at that point) with Allen Road
> today. A nearby house is labeled "Mrs. Allen" in fact... the Allen
> family for whom today's Allen Road must have been named. Its
> location is in the headwaters of of the southern branch of Harris
> Mill Run, so I suspect it is from that Harris land.
>> An "S. Harris" is shown on the road from Bruce to Farmville (State
> Road 121 today), not far from the Foreman and Cotten plantations. I
> read somewhere that this is the Mr. Harris who established a school
> on his plantation, which is also shown on this map. Interestingly,
> the school site is near the location of Falkland Elementary School
> today. I think you told me that this location is where your
> ancestral Harris is from. It is not clear whether the J. Harris and
> S. Harris shown on the Gilmer map were related, but I suspect they
> were. Their farms were separated by about 7-8 miles it appears, but
> in the 1860's there was basically nothing but the Glass House
> Pocosin between the two farms. Both farms appear to have been
> located between the Falkland Hwy to the north and the Old
> Stantonsburg Road to the south.
>> With respect to the Randolphs, I'll tell you what I know from
> memory. I may have more detailed info in my files but cannot get to
> it right now. The Randolph plantation covered most of the land that
> is now Ironwood Country Club property, on both sides of the Falkland
> Hwy east of Sam Tyson's Branch. As Bill mentioned, the Randolph
> manor house was on the south side of the road and there is still a
> cemetery hidden in the woods there, which I think Bill has
> documented. The Randolphs owned that land from the late 1700's thru
> the early 1900's as far as I can tell. They operated a popular
> landing on the river during that time, and its name stuck thru most
> of the 1900's as Randolph's Landing, aka Randolph's Barn, which it
> was called when I was growing up in the neighborhood in the 1950's
> and 60's. By that time, of course, it was no longer in use as a
> landing, but it was a favorite bank-fishing spot for people who
> lived around there. An old path went to the landing from behind our
> house, and the path looped back around behind Lennie Peaden's Store
> (formerly Colville's Store), which sat at what is now the main
> entrance to the Ironwood GC. I felt a lot of history when I walked
> and jogged that path as a boy... now I'm learning more in bits and
> pieces about it.
>> I caught some handsome bass, bream, and catfish while fishing
> there at Randolph's Barn in my boyhood... one time I was even
> frightened by a huge Atlantic Sturgeon that suddenly surfaced in the
> middle of the river, showing its long, serrated backside. Sturgeon
> swimming up the Tar River to spawn have been known to exceed 100
> lbs, and to me, a 10-12 year-old boy watching this one roll in the
> shallows next to a sand bar maybe 40 ft from where I stood, it could
> have just as well been the Loch Ness Monster. And I thought perhaps
> it was, until my Dad identified it as a sturgeon after I excitedly
> described it to him.
>> But I digressed. I do find one Randolph in my family tree
> records. He was John Randolph who married Lydia Olivia Eborn on
> April 26, 1849. Would that be your John Randolph? Also, some
> Randolphs were living in the household of my 2-gr-grand uncle Arthur
> Forbes during the 1850 census, I think. Can't get my hands on that
> right now. No doubt the Forbes and Randolph families knew each other
> well, for it appears their farms were next to each other for the
> whole 19th century, plus perhaps a few years on either side of it...
>> Thanks for inspiring me to document a bit of that knowledge; I
> especially enjoyed reliving my boyhood memory of glimpsing that
> awesome sturgeon for a few brief seconds at Randolph's Landing!
>> Bob Forbes
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: liz_sparrow
>> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 9:32 PM
>> Subject: [genpcncfir] Re: Harris Mill Run and the Randolphs
>> About the Randolphs, I misread my notes about Jesse S. Randolph.
>> was not the father of John; instead he was the son of Sarah Ann
>> Harris and John Randolph and died as a newborn infant in 1855.
>> --- In email@example.com, "liz_sparrow" <liz_sparrow@>
>> > Bob, do you know for whom Harris Mill Run was named? My Harris
>> > ancestors (Timothy I and II, Henry, Spencer S., John Spencer,
>> > owned land in the Falkland area between Farmville and Bruce
>> > close or adjacent to Cottendale and to the Foremans. I'm
>> > interested in collecting tidbits of information about any of
>> > so if you know about Harris Mill, I'd be delighted to hear.
>> > one of Spencer S. Harris's daughters, Sarah Ann (1834-1855),
>> > John Randolph in 1854, son of Jesse S. Randolph who died in
>> > believe, but Sarah Ann died at 21, probably during childbirth.
>> > assuming the Randolph Farm you mentioned belonged to the same
>> > family. Do you know anything about the Randolphs? Did they
>> > the area?
>> > Thanks......Liz
>> > --- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "bforbes@" <bforbes@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Yes Faye, thanks for asking about that. The "Arthur Forbes
>> > Henry
>> > > King spoke of on pg 22 of his book was the farm of my 2gr-
>> > uncle
>> > > Arthur Forbes (1806-1881), twin to my 2gr-grandfather Alfred
>> > > (1806-1847). If you know the Falkland Hwy (NC 43N) between
>> > Greenville and
>> > > Falkland, Arthur Forbes's farm bordered that road from
>> > Run (the
>> > > 'deep bottom' below B's BBQ today) westward to about today's
>> > location of
>> > > Hwy 264 bypass, runniung north to the Tar River. His twin
>> > Alfred
>> > > Forbes's farm started at about Hwy 264 Bypass today and ran
>> > westward to the
>> > > Randolph Farm which is now Ironwood Country Club, also
>> > the north
>> > > at the river.
>> > >
>> > >(clipped the rest....)
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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