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Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth

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  • NulaT@aol.com
    Dear Marcia, I have no idea why my emails would bounce. That is a question I need to ask AOL. However one of yours came through before this one about the
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
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      Dear Marcia,

      I have no idea why my emails would bounce. That is a question I need to ask
      AOL. However one of yours came through before this one about the Trib
      article.

      Thanks so much for the URL for the Hanks and Lincoln families. That will be
      interesting reading.

      Thanks again,

      Nula


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • NulaT@aol.com
      Hello Marcia, I have no idea why my emails would bounce.  That is a question I need to ask AOL.  However one of yours came through before this one about the
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
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        Hello Marcia,

        I have no idea why my emails would bounce.  That is a question I need to ask
        AOL.  However one of yours came through before this one about the Trib
        article.

        Thanks so much for the URL for the Hanks and Lincoln families.  That will be
        interesting reading.

        Nula



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carol Singh
        Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic evidence. I m reminded of the Maury Povich show, which has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer. Many
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
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          Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
          evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show, which
          has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
          Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
          paternity using the justification that the baby "looks
          just like" the man they think is the father, while the
          men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
          course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
          fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded, too,
          of all the rage about this and that look-alike
          contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen
          Elizabeth--we're too young I think to claim title to
          being the Russian princess Anatasia. Besides we'd have
          a hard time making any money off the Russian title,
          but we might come into some change if we landed the
          British title. Later, Carol
          --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
          wrote:
          > Carol,
          >
          > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
          > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
          > comparing photographs.
          >
          > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
          > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old
          > photographs. (Photography was just available in
          > 1836).
          >
          > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
          > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around on
          > her husband. The apparently well researched
          > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
          > middle child.
          >
          > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
          >
          > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
          > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
          > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
          > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near Hodgenville,
          > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
          > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
          > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
          >
          >
          > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
          > interest:
          >
          > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
          > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle Creek,
          > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
          > parents.
          > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
          > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co, NC.
          > Evidently both died after 1870.
          >
          > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County, NC
          >
          > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
          > * *
          >
          > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
          > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should just
          > swap photos?
          >
          > Marcia
          >
          >
          >
          > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
          > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
          > paternity
          > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing
          > a
          > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
          > "Abraham
          > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
          > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
          > and
          > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
          > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
          > County, North Carolina. One problem college
          > professors
          > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to get
          > recognition is to write about a controversial topic.
          > Lincoln's paternity fits the bill. However,I am not
          > saying that such motives influenced the book under
          > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
          > historical and genealogical subjects should be
          > carefully researched and that even under the best of
          > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
          > of
          > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
          > paternity
          > until now, so that shows my own
          > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
          > drew
          > my attention and interest, so I decided to check it
          > out and report back what I learned if it might be of
          > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
          > quite
          > a few people over the years said that my Uncle Mark
          > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
          > might
          > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
          > Enloe
          > might have been related to one or another of the
          > families in our group. All his life, though, my
          > uncle
          > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
          > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
          > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
          > Later, Carol
          > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
          > wrote:
          > > To Nula,
          > >
          > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
          > 12/08/03,
          > > I found at Trib
          > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
          > >
          > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
          > > Published December 7, 2003
          > >
          > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
          > wedlock
          > >
          > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
          > > that has been taboo
          > > for years, two North Carolina researchers believe
          > > President Abraham
          > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
          > > North Carolinian
          > > named Abraham Enloe.
          > >
          > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
          > > earlier this year,
          > > Catawba Valley Community College history professor
          > > Richard Eller and
          > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
          > > decades-old claims
          > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
          > > County, about 60 miles
          > > west of Charlotte.
          > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12,
          > > 1809, in Hardin
          > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
          > > Lincoln a few months
          > > before he was nominated to be president.
          > >
          > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
          > > North Carolina
          > > origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln
          > > and Enloe, which
          > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of the
          > > tall, lanky men.
          > >
          > > Copyright � 2003, Chicago Tribune
          > >
          > >
          > > (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph
          > > should be 'Eller and
          > > Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. -
          > > Marcia).
          > >
          > >
          > > The article does not indicate a strong case, so I
          > > used Google to
          > > research good, olde Abe - see this sight search
          > > critera was "Abraham
          > > Lincoln's mother" selected:
          > >
          >
          http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm
          > >
          > > Marcia
          > >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________
          > > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
          > > >Subject: Abraham Lincoln
          > >
          > > >Marcia,
          > > >
          > > >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's
          > > heritage for some time.
          > > >Were you able to copy the article and would it be
          > > possible for you
          > > >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but
          > > was unable to get
          > > >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the
          > > computer.
          > > >
          > > >Your help would be appreciated.
          > > >
          > > >Nula Tingleff
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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          >
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          >
          >
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          >
          === message truncated ===


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        • Rhet Wilkinson
          This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet ... From: marcia_mclawhorn To:
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
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            This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: marcia_mclawhorn
            To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
            Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth


            Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports that Richard Eller, a
            Catawba Valley Community College history Professor, and Jerry
            Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book "The Tarheel
            Lincoln," which was released this year. The article states that the
            book is the result of research of the claim that the 16th president
            was born in Rutherford County, NC; an illegitimate son of a North
            Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the fact that tradition
            has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County, KY.

            The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight thought there are phyical
            resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined by comparing
            photographs of the tall lanky men.



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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Evelyn Hendricks
            When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty years ago-we were taught that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that reason his supposed father always
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
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              When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty years ago-we were taught
              that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that reason his supposed
              father always wanted to live in isolated areas. At that time I believe,
              Abe's mother was supposed to have been a waitress in a tavern and the father
              was one of the customers. I doubt it is true, but that was the story then.
              Evelyn


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Rhet Wilkinson" <rhet@...>
              To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:09 AM
              Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth


              > This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as
              to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: marcia_mclawhorn
              > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
              > Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
              >
              >
              > Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports that Richard Eller, a
              > Catawba Valley Community College history Professor, and Jerry
              > Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book "The Tarheel
              > Lincoln," which was released this year. The article states that the
              > book is the result of research of the claim that the 16th president
              > was born in Rutherford County, NC; an illegitimate son of a North
              > Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the fact that tradition
              > has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County, KY.
              >
              > The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight thought there are phyical
              > resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined by comparing
              > photographs of the tall lanky men.
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
              > ADVERTISEMENT
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Pitt County Historical Society:
              http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
              >
              > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS
              earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
              > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
              >
              > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
              >
              > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
              >
              > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic
              group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and
              all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
              > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
              > Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Pitt County Historical Society:
              http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
              >
              > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS earmarked
              for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
              > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
              >
              > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
              >
              > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
              >
              > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group
              if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
              Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
              > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
              > Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
              >
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Carol Singh
              Dear Evelyn, The article I referred to from researching the Yahoo site mentioned that there were about ten women named Nancy Hanks who were close in age to the
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
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                Dear Evelyn, The article I referred to from
                researching the Yahoo site mentioned that there were
                about ten women named Nancy Hanks who were close in
                age to the mother of Abraham Lincoln. Additionally,
                the older sister of Nancy Hanks, according to the
                author (Steers) of the article on Yahoo, did have an
                illegitimate son. Since record keeping was not at the
                level it is today and since DNA testing was unknown,
                it is not surprising that a controversy should arise.
                When I was in school myself, I was taught that Abraham
                Lincoln's father was Thomas Lincoln and that the
                family lived in remote areas because the father made
                his living primarily through hunting (fur trading) and
                that additionally any meat that was not needed by the
                family he sold to add to the family's income. In
                another class, the teacher noted that Thomas Lincoln
                was a loner who often went on long hunting trips--the
                more so following the death of Nancy--from which he
                did not return for days. According to this teacher,
                the Lincoln children were on their own during the
                absence of their father. Later, after the marriage of
                Thomas to his second wife, the children welcomed her
                because now there was an adult always with them and
                they felt more like a family again rather than like
                orphans. Whatever the case, I doubt that anyone can
                deny the hardship a child experiences after losing a
                parent--whether through death as was common in
                Lincoln's day or through divorce as is common in our
                own day. Perhaps Lincoln was a better person for
                having had the childhood he did. As for Thomas
                Lincoln, as with the parents of so many people who
                later became famous, one always wonders how much of
                what we have been taught is true, how much is fantasy,
                and how much is conjecture. I guess, too, that many of
                us might say the same of ancestors we ourselves never
                knew. The important think is that we remember them and
                try to think kindly of them in spite of the
                circumstances of their lives and their human failings.
                Later, Carol
                --- Evelyn Hendricks <rebh@...> wrote:
                > When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty
                > years ago-we were taught
                > that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that
                > reason his supposed
                > father always wanted to live in isolated areas. At
                > that time I believe,
                > Abe's mother was supposed to have been a waitress in
                > a tavern and the father
                > was one of the customers. I doubt it is true, but
                > that was the story then.
                > Evelyn
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Rhet Wilkinson" <rhet@...>
                > To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:09 AM
                > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                >
                >
                > > This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS
                > that there is a debate as
                > to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
                > > ----- Original Message -----
                > > From: marcia_mclawhorn
                > > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
                > > Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                > >
                > >
                > > Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports
                > that Richard Eller, a
                > > Catawba Valley Community College history
                > Professor, and Jerry
                > > Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book
                > "The Tarheel
                > > Lincoln," which was released this year. The
                > article states that the
                > > book is the result of research of the claim that
                > the 16th president
                > > was born in Rutherford County, NC; an
                > illegitimate son of a North
                > > Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the
                > fact that tradition
                > > has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County,
                > KY.
                > >
                > > The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight
                > thought there are phyical
                > > resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined
                > by comparing
                > > photographs of the tall lanky men.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > > ADVERTISEMENT
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Pitt County Historical Society:
                > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                > >
                > > Submit your family for publication FREE in
                > VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                > earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail
                > instructions:
                > >
                >
                http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                > >
                > > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order
                > Form, limited supply:
                >
                http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                > >
                > > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical
                > Resources:
                > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                > >
                > > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you
                > to join our dynamic
                > group if you are interested in genealogy discussion
                > and research in Pitt and
                > all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                > > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                > > Research
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                > removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Pitt County Historical Society:
                > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                > >
                > > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME
                > II CHRONICALS earmarked
                > for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                > >
                >
                http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                > >
                > > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form,
                > limited supply:
                >
                http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                > >
                > > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical
                > Resources:
                > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                > >
                > > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to
                > join our dynamic group
                > if you are interested in genealogy discussion and
                > research in Pitt and all
                > Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                > > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                > > Research
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                > >
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >


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              • Cvbeck
                Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager- Marie Osmond, (2 & 3) 20 s - Pat Benetar and Sheena
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
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                  Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta
                  Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager- Marie Osmond, (2 & 3)
                  20's - Pat Benetar and Sheena Easton. I like to sing...Where's the
                  Dough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

                  HA HA HA!

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Carol Singh [mailto:csinghworthington@...]
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:03 AM
                  To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Re: Abraham Lincoln's birth


                  Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
                  evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show, which
                  has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
                  Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
                  paternity using the justification that the baby "looks
                  just like" the man they think is the father, while the
                  men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
                  course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
                  fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded, too,
                  of all the rage about this and that look-alike
                  contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen Elizabeth--we're too
                  young I think to claim title to being the Russian princess Anatasia.
                  Besides we'd have a hard time making any money off the Russian title,
                  but we might come into some change if we landed the British title.
                  Later, Carol
                  --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                  wrote:
                  > Carol,
                  >
                  > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
                  > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
                  > comparing photographs.
                  >
                  > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
                  > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old photographs.
                  > (Photography was just available in 1836).
                  >
                  > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
                  > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around on
                  > her husband. The apparently well researched
                  > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
                  > middle child.
                  >
                  > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
                  >
                  > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
                  > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
                  > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
                  > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near Hodgenville,
                  > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
                  > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
                  > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
                  >
                  >
                  > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
                  > interest:
                  >
                  > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
                  > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle Creek,
                  > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
                  > parents.
                  > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
                  > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co, NC.
                  > Evidently both died after 1870.
                  >
                  > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County, NC
                  >
                  > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                  > * *
                  >
                  > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
                  > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should just
                  > swap photos?
                  >
                  > Marcia
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
                  > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
                  > paternity
                  > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing
                  > a
                  > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
                  > "Abraham
                  > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
                  > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
                  > and
                  > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
                  > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
                  > County, North Carolina. One problem college
                  > professors
                  > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to get recognition is to

                  > write about a controversial topic. Lincoln's paternity fits the bill.
                  > However,I am not saying that such motives influenced the book under
                  > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
                  > historical and genealogical subjects should be
                  > carefully researched and that even under the best of
                  > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
                  > of
                  > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
                  > paternity
                  > until now, so that shows my own
                  > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
                  > drew
                  > my attention and interest, so I decided to check it
                  > out and report back what I learned if it might be of
                  > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
                  > quite
                  > a few people over the years said that my Uncle Mark
                  > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
                  > might
                  > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
                  > Enloe
                  > might have been related to one or another of the
                  > families in our group. All his life, though, my
                  > uncle
                  > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
                  > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
                  > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
                  > Later, Carol
                  > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > To Nula,
                  > >
                  > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
                  > 12/08/03,
                  > > I found at Trib
                  > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
                  > >
                  > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
                  > > Published December 7, 2003
                  > >
                  > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
                  > wedlock
                  > >
                  > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
                  > > that has been taboo
                  > > for years, two North Carolina researchers believe
                  > > President Abraham
                  > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
                  > > North Carolinian
                  > > named Abraham Enloe.
                  > >
                  > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
                  > > earlier this year,
                  > > Catawba Valley Community College history professor
                  > > Richard Eller and
                  > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
                  > > decades-old claims
                  > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
                  > > County, about 60 miles
                  > > west of Charlotte.
                  > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12,
                  > > 1809, in Hardin
                  > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
                  > > Lincoln a few months
                  > > before he was nominated to be president.
                  > >
                  > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
                  > > North Carolina
                  > > origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln
                  > > and Enloe, which
                  > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of the
                  > > tall, lanky men.
                  > >
                  > > Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph
                  > > should be 'Eller and
                  > > Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. -
                  > > Marcia).
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The article does not indicate a strong case, so I
                  > > used Google to
                  > > research good, olde Abe - see this sight search
                  > > critera was "Abraham
                  > > Lincoln's mother" selected:
                  > >
                  >
                  http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm
                  > >
                  > > Marcia
                  > >
                  >
                  ______________________________________________________________
                  > > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
                  > > >Subject: Abraham Lincoln
                  > >
                  > > >Marcia,
                  > > >
                  > > >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's
                  > > heritage for some time.
                  > > >Were you able to copy the article and would it be
                  > > possible for you
                  > > >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but
                  > > was unable to get
                  > > >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the
                  > > computer.
                  > > >
                  > > >Your help would be appreciated.
                  > > >
                  > > >Nula Tingleff
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________
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                  > Pitt County Historical Society:
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                  >
                  > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                  > earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                  >
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                  >
                  >
                  > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form,
                  > limited supply:
                  >
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                  m
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                  m

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                • linda bass
                  All in-coming and out-going mail is checked by Norton Anti-Virus ... From: Carol Singh To: Sent:
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    All in-coming and out-going mail
                    is checked by Norton Anti-Virus
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Carol Singh" <csinghworthington@...>
                    To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:45 PM
                    Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth

                    I personally found reading about the "who is/who isn't" Abe Lincoln parents
                    historically funny. Pun intended. I have been away from my computer for the
                    past 8 days and catching up on my reading about all that has been written
                    struck my funny bone in just the right places. Thanks for the chuckles. I
                    had never heard these storied before and can only imagine the fun someone
                    had writing about this tall lanky 16th president. Wouldn't it be great if
                    someone could/would exhume' the bodies and prove what' what's/who's who's? I
                    bet the DNA people would have a ball with this puzzle.
                  • Carol Singh
                    Dear Linda, I ve thought about exhuming a few to fulfill the prophecy from the t.v. program Unsolved Mysteries; You too can solve a mystery! Right! I can t
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 10, 2003
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                      Dear Linda, I've thought about exhuming a few to
                      fulfill the prophecy from the t.v. program "Unsolved
                      Mysteries;" "You too can solve a mystery!" Right! I
                      can't wait! Of course, I might bite off more than I
                      can chew. When one starts digging, one never knows
                      what he will unearth. Still, I have a better reason
                      than "Father Abraham" as I call him. I have not been
                      able to find a marriage record for Jacky Ann McGowan,
                      my maternal great grandmother. My grandmother Jennie
                      Secession McGowan's father was her mother's cousin
                      William McGowan. The only problem is that she had four
                      cousins named William McGowan that I know of. Jennie
                      Secession McGowan and mother Jacky Ann McGowan were
                      living in the 1880 census in the household of Lemuel
                      McGowan,Sr. and Paulina (Perlina, Mama said her name
                      was)McGowan his wife--parents of Jacky Ann McGowan.
                      Jennie was listed as one-year old granddaughter.
                      Jennie's tombstone gives the birth as 1882 or 83 (I
                      forget which but a contradiction of the census
                      record). If any of you has the information that will
                      help me definitively solve this mystery, just think,
                      "You too can solve a mystery." Thanks, Carol
                      --- linda bass <Lou-BB@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > All in-coming and out-going mail
                      > is checked by Norton Anti-Virus
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: "Carol Singh" <csinghworthington@...>
                      > To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:45 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                      >
                      > I personally found reading about the "who is/who
                      > isn't" Abe Lincoln parents
                      > historically funny. Pun intended. I have been away
                      > from my computer for the
                      > past 8 days and catching up on my reading about all
                      > that has been written
                      > struck my funny bone in just the right places.
                      > Thanks for the chuckles. I
                      > had never heard these storied before and can only
                      > imagine the fun someone
                      > had writing about this tall lanky 16th president.
                      > Wouldn't it be great if
                      > someone could/would exhume' the bodies and prove
                      > what' what's/who's who's? I
                      > bet the DNA people would have a ball with this
                      > puzzle.
                      >
                      >
                      >


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                    • Carol Singh
                      See what I mean? I wanted to be Dolly Parton myself. People tell me I have the look, but hey, the money (as you have pointed out) is in the voice. Why couldn t
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 10, 2003
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                        See what I mean? I wanted to be Dolly Parton myself.
                        People tell me I have the look, but hey, the money (as
                        you have pointed out) is in the voice. Why couldn't I
                        have just had the voice? Later, Carol
                        --- Cvbeck <cvbeck@...> wrote:
                        > Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta
                        > Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager-
                        > Marie Osmond, (2 & 3)
                        > 20's - Pat Benetar and Sheena Easton. I like to
                        > sing...Where's the
                        > Dough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
                        >
                        > HA HA HA!
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Carol Singh
                        > [mailto:csinghworthington@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:03 AM
                        > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Re: Abraham Lincoln's
                        > birth
                        >
                        >
                        > Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
                        > evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show,
                        > which
                        > has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
                        > Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
                        > paternity using the justification that the baby
                        > "looks
                        > just like" the man they think is the father, while
                        > the
                        > men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
                        > course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
                        > fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded,
                        > too,
                        > of all the rage about this and that look-alike
                        > contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen
                        > Elizabeth--we're too
                        > young I think to claim title to being the Russian
                        > princess Anatasia.
                        > Besides we'd have a hard time making any money off
                        > the Russian title,
                        > but we might come into some change if we landed the
                        > British title.
                        > Later, Carol
                        > --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                        > wrote:
                        > > Carol,
                        > >
                        > > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
                        > > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
                        > > comparing photographs.
                        > >
                        > > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
                        > > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old
                        > photographs.
                        > > (Photography was just available in 1836).
                        > >
                        > > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
                        > > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around
                        > on
                        > > her husband. The apparently well researched
                        > > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
                        > > middle child.
                        > >
                        > > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
                        > >
                        > > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
                        > > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
                        > > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
                        > > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near
                        > Hodgenville,
                        > > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
                        > > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
                        > > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
                        > > interest:
                        > >
                        > > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
                        > > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle
                        > Creek,
                        > > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
                        > > parents.
                        > > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
                        > > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co,
                        > NC.
                        > > Evidently both died after 1870.
                        > >
                        > > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County,
                        > NC
                        > >
                        > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                        > *
                        > > * *
                        > >
                        > > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
                        > > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should
                        > just
                        > > swap photos?
                        > >
                        > > Marcia
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
                        > > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
                        > > paternity
                        > > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by
                        > doing
                        > > a
                        > > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
                        > > "Abraham
                        > > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
                        > > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
                        > > and
                        > > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
                        > > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
                        > > County, North Carolina. One problem college
                        > > professors
                        > > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to
                        > get recognition is to
                        >
                        > > write about a controversial topic. Lincoln's
                        > paternity fits the bill.
                        > > However,I am not saying that such motives
                        > influenced the book under
                        > > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
                        > > historical and genealogical subjects should be
                        > > carefully researched and that even under the best
                        > of
                        > > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
                        > > of
                        > > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
                        > > paternity
                        > > until now, so that shows my own
                        > > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
                        > > drew
                        > > my attention and interest, so I decided to check
                        > it
                        > > out and report back what I learned if it might be
                        > of
                        > > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
                        > > quite
                        > > a few people over the years said that my Uncle
                        > Mark
                        > > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
                        > > might
                        > > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
                        > > Enloe
                        > > might have been related to one or another of the
                        > > families in our group. All his life, though, my
                        > > uncle
                        > > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
                        > > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
                        > > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
                        > > Later, Carol
                        > > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > To Nula,
                        > > >
                        > > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
                        > > 12/08/03,
                        > > > I found at Trib
                        > > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
                        > > >
                        > > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
                        > > > Published December 7, 2003
                        > > >
                        > > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
                        > > wedlock
                        > > >
                        > > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
                        > > > that has been taboo
                        > > > for years, two North Carolina researchers
                        > believe
                        > > > President Abraham
                        > > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
                        > > > North Carolinian
                        > > > named Abraham Enloe.
                        > > >
                        > > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
                        > > > earlier this year,
                        > > > Catawba Valley Community College history
                        > professor
                        > > > Richard Eller and
                        > > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
                        > > > decades-old claims
                        > > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
                        > > > County, about 60 miles
                        > > > west of Charlotte.
                        > > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb.
                        > 12,
                        > > > 1809, in Hardin
                        > > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
                        > > > Lincoln a few months
                        > > > before he was nominated to be president.
                        > > >
                        > > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
                        > > > North Carolina
                        > > > origins on a physical resemblance between
                        > Lincoln
                        > > > and Enloe, which
                        > > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of
                        > the
                        >
                        === message truncated ===


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                      • tarheellincoln1
                        As one of the author s of the new book on Lincoln s paternity I would like to respond to some statements made here. First, our research is not based upon
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 3, 2004
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                          As one of the author's of the new book on Lincoln's paternity I would
                          like to respond to some statements made here. First, our research is
                          not based upon lookalikes alone. Though interesting, that kind of
                          evidence would never make an adequate case for Abraham Lincoln being
                          the son of anyone. If you check out the book you will find one full
                          chapter dedicated to the only real evidence that matters, DNA. Our
                          work has included that of a forensic pathologist who has been working
                          toward the goal of testing the Lincolns for a number of years. The
                          intent of the book is to begin discussion of this possibility so that
                          sources that now hold Lincoln DNA might be persuaded to allow some of
                          its usage to test this story which has been going around the
                          mountains of North Carolina for almost 200 years. Your critique of
                          the book baffles me. You take the same sort of "off the cuff"
                          position about our work as what you accuse of taking in our
                          research. I would suggest that you read the book and not the wire
                          service article before forming an opinion. I really don't intend to
                          be caustic about your previous statements, I would just rather have a
                          well informed discussion. That way, we all know what we are talking
                          about. Richard Eller
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________
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                        • Carol Singh
                          Sir, I myself take no pleasure in downing a book with or without examining it. When asked my opinion, I acknowledged not having read the book. Instead I read
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 3, 2004
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                            Sir, I myself take no pleasure in downing a book with
                            or without examining it. When asked my opinion, I
                            acknowledged not having read the book. Instead I read
                            critiques of the book, as our library does not own
                            your book. Based upon those and allowing that the
                            conclusions drawn were correct, then there followed
                            the opinion I expressed. With those reservations, I
                            prefaced my remarks. I doubt that any of us who are
                            interested in genealogy and in the combined fields of
                            genalogy and history would with malice aforethought
                            make light of your work or of your interest in
                            pursuing DNA evidence. While it would be rewarding to
                            have actual DNA support for your argument, to date it
                            does not exist--if I understand you correctly.
                            Therefore, you have put before us an interesting
                            hypothesis rather than proof--again if I understand
                            you correctly--and you would like to have the DNA
                            analysis to support your argument. Certainly such
                            evidence would be desirable, and I doubt that anyone
                            would dispute you on the subject. To date, though, we
                            don't have it, and we can only use what we do have. I
                            do not blame you for defending your work. Any of us
                            would do the same in your place. I sincerely hope that
                            whoever is in a position to provide you the DNA you
                            need to determine Lincoln's parentage does so--in the
                            interest of both history and science, if not in that
                            of simple human nature. In the meantime, pardon both
                            my humor and my reservations. We Tarheels are famous
                            for our laughter and our skepticism. Among us these
                            characteristics are the ties that bind. Please take
                            our remarks to each other in the vein in which they
                            were intended. None of us had the intention of
                            offending anyone. Carol
                            --- tarheellincoln1 <tarheellincoln1@...> wrote:
                            > As one of the author's of the new book on Lincoln's
                            > paternity I would
                            > like to respond to some statements made here.
                            > First, our research is
                            > not based upon lookalikes alone. Though
                            > interesting, that kind of
                            > evidence would never make an adequate case for
                            > Abraham Lincoln being
                            > the son of anyone. If you check out the book you
                            > will find one full
                            > chapter dedicated to the only real evidence that
                            > matters, DNA. Our
                            > work has included that of a forensic pathologist who
                            > has been working
                            > toward the goal of testing the Lincolns for a number
                            > of years. The
                            > intent of the book is to begin discussion of this
                            > possibility so that
                            > sources that now hold Lincoln DNA might be persuaded
                            > to allow some of
                            > its usage to test this story which has been going
                            > around the
                            > mountains of North Carolina for almost 200 years.
                            > Your critique of
                            > the book baffles me. You take the same sort of "off
                            > the cuff"
                            > position about our work as what you accuse of taking
                            > in our
                            > research. I would suggest that you read the book
                            > and not the wire
                            > service article before forming an opinion. I really
                            > don't intend to
                            > be caustic about your previous statements, I would
                            > just rather have a
                            > well informed discussion. That way, we all know
                            > what we are talking
                            > about. Richard Eller
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > __________________________________
                            > > Do you Yahoo!?
                            > > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
                            > > http://photos.yahoo.com/
                            >
                            >
                            >


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