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Abraham Lincoln's birth

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  • marcia_mclawhorn
    To Nula, Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On 12/08/03, I found at Trib website after searching for North Carolina Item compiled from Tribune news
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
      To Nula,

      Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On 12/08/03, I found at Trib
      website after searching for "North Carolina"

      Item compiled from Tribune news services
      Published December 7, 2003

      Book argues Lincoln born out of wedlock

      HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic that has been taboo
      for years, two North Carolina researchers believe President Abraham
      Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a North Carolinian
      named Abraham Enloe.

      In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released earlier this year,
      Catawba Valley Community College history professor Richard Eller and
      retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research decades-old claims
      that the 16th president was born in Rutherford County, about 60 miles
      west of Charlotte.
      Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12, 1809, in Hardin
      County, Ky., are based on a statement written by Lincoln a few months
      before he was nominated to be president.

      Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's North Carolina
      origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe, which
      the authors noted by comparing photographs of the tall, lanky men.

      Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune


      (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph should be 'Eller and
      Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. - Marcia).


      The article does not indicate a strong case, so I used Google to
      research good, olde Abe - see this sight search critera was "Abraham
      Lincoln's mother" selected:
      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm

      Marcia
      ______________________________________________________________
      >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
      >Subject: Abraham Lincoln

      >Marcia,
      >
      >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's heritage for some time.
      >Were you able to copy the article and would it be possible for you
      >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but was unable to get
      >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the computer.
      >
      >Your help would be appreciated.
      >
      >Nula Tingleff
    • Carol Singh
      Dear Group, I ve just read an article on the paternity of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing a search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
        Dear Group, I've just read an article on the paternity
        of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing a
        search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching "Abraham
        Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
        reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian and
        Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
        that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
        County, North Carolina. One problem college professors
        face is the pressure to publish. The best way to get
        recognition is to write about a controversial topic.
        Lincoln's paternity fits the bill. However,I am not
        saying that such motives influenced the book under
        discussion, only that whatever one writes on
        historical and genealogical subjects should be
        carefully researched and that even under the best of
        precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard of
        serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's paternity
        until now, so that shows my own
        knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion drew
        my attention and interest, so I decided to check it
        out and report back what I learned if it might be of
        interest to our group. On a more personal note, quite
        a few people over the years said that my Uncle Mark
        looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he might
        have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps Enloe
        might have been related to one or another of the
        families in our group. All his life, though, my uncle
        denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
        Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
        Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
        Later, Carol
        --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
        wrote:
        > To Nula,
        >
        > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On 12/08/03,
        > I found at Trib
        > website after searching for "North Carolina"
        >
        > Item compiled from Tribune news services
        > Published December 7, 2003
        >
        > Book argues Lincoln born out of wedlock
        >
        > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
        > that has been taboo
        > for years, two North Carolina researchers believe
        > President Abraham
        > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
        > North Carolinian
        > named Abraham Enloe.
        >
        > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
        > earlier this year,
        > Catawba Valley Community College history professor
        > Richard Eller and
        > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
        > decades-old claims
        > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
        > County, about 60 miles
        > west of Charlotte.
        > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12,
        > 1809, in Hardin
        > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
        > Lincoln a few months
        > before he was nominated to be president.
        >
        > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
        > North Carolina
        > origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln
        > and Enloe, which
        > the authors noted by comparing photographs of the
        > tall, lanky men.
        >
        > Copyright ゥ 2003, Chicago Tribune
        >
        >
        > (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph
        > should be 'Eller and
        > Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. -
        > Marcia).
        >
        >
        > The article does not indicate a strong case, so I
        > used Google to
        > research good, olde Abe - see this sight search
        > critera was "Abraham
        > Lincoln's mother" selected:
        >
        http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm
        >
        > Marcia
        >
        ______________________________________________________________
        > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
        > >Subject: Abraham Lincoln
        >
        > >Marcia,
        > >
        > >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's
        > heritage for some time.
        > >Were you able to copy the article and would it be
        > possible for you
        > >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but
        > was unable to get
        > >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the
        > computer.
        > >
        > >Your help would be appreciated.
        > >
        > >Nula Tingleff
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________
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        New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
        http://photos.yahoo.com/
      • NulaT@aol.com
        Dear Marcia, I have no idea why my emails would bounce. That is a question I need to ask AOL. However one of yours came through before this one about the
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
          Dear Marcia,

          I have no idea why my emails would bounce. That is a question I need to ask
          AOL. However one of yours came through before this one about the Trib
          article.

          Thanks so much for the URL for the Hanks and Lincoln families. That will be
          interesting reading.

          Thanks again,

          Nula


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • NulaT@aol.com
          Hello Marcia, I have no idea why my emails would bounce.  That is a question I need to ask AOL.  However one of yours came through before this one about the
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 8, 2003
            Hello Marcia,

            I have no idea why my emails would bounce.  That is a question I need to ask
            AOL.  However one of yours came through before this one about the Trib
            article.

            Thanks so much for the URL for the Hanks and Lincoln families.  That will be
            interesting reading.

            Nula



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carol Singh
            Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic evidence. I m reminded of the Maury Povich show, which has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer. Many
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
              Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
              evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show, which
              has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
              Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
              paternity using the justification that the baby "looks
              just like" the man they think is the father, while the
              men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
              course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
              fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded, too,
              of all the rage about this and that look-alike
              contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen
              Elizabeth--we're too young I think to claim title to
              being the Russian princess Anatasia. Besides we'd have
              a hard time making any money off the Russian title,
              but we might come into some change if we landed the
              British title. Later, Carol
              --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
              wrote:
              > Carol,
              >
              > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
              > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
              > comparing photographs.
              >
              > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
              > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old
              > photographs. (Photography was just available in
              > 1836).
              >
              > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
              > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around on
              > her husband. The apparently well researched
              > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
              > middle child.
              >
              > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
              >
              > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
              > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
              > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
              > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near Hodgenville,
              > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
              > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
              > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
              >
              >
              > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
              > interest:
              >
              > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
              > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle Creek,
              > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
              > parents.
              > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
              > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co, NC.
              > Evidently both died after 1870.
              >
              > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County, NC
              >
              > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
              > * *
              >
              > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
              > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should just
              > swap photos?
              >
              > Marcia
              >
              >
              >
              > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
              > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
              > paternity
              > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing
              > a
              > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
              > "Abraham
              > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
              > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
              > and
              > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
              > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
              > County, North Carolina. One problem college
              > professors
              > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to get
              > recognition is to write about a controversial topic.
              > Lincoln's paternity fits the bill. However,I am not
              > saying that such motives influenced the book under
              > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
              > historical and genealogical subjects should be
              > carefully researched and that even under the best of
              > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
              > of
              > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
              > paternity
              > until now, so that shows my own
              > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
              > drew
              > my attention and interest, so I decided to check it
              > out and report back what I learned if it might be of
              > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
              > quite
              > a few people over the years said that my Uncle Mark
              > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
              > might
              > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
              > Enloe
              > might have been related to one or another of the
              > families in our group. All his life, though, my
              > uncle
              > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
              > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
              > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
              > Later, Carol
              > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
              > wrote:
              > > To Nula,
              > >
              > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
              > 12/08/03,
              > > I found at Trib
              > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
              > >
              > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
              > > Published December 7, 2003
              > >
              > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
              > wedlock
              > >
              > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
              > > that has been taboo
              > > for years, two North Carolina researchers believe
              > > President Abraham
              > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
              > > North Carolinian
              > > named Abraham Enloe.
              > >
              > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
              > > earlier this year,
              > > Catawba Valley Community College history professor
              > > Richard Eller and
              > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
              > > decades-old claims
              > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
              > > County, about 60 miles
              > > west of Charlotte.
              > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12,
              > > 1809, in Hardin
              > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
              > > Lincoln a few months
              > > before he was nominated to be president.
              > >
              > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
              > > North Carolina
              > > origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln
              > > and Enloe, which
              > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of the
              > > tall, lanky men.
              > >
              > > Copyright � 2003, Chicago Tribune
              > >
              > >
              > > (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph
              > > should be 'Eller and
              > > Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. -
              > > Marcia).
              > >
              > >
              > > The article does not indicate a strong case, so I
              > > used Google to
              > > research good, olde Abe - see this sight search
              > > critera was "Abraham
              > > Lincoln's mother" selected:
              > >
              >
              http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm
              > >
              > > Marcia
              > >
              >
              ______________________________________________________________
              > > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
              > > >Subject: Abraham Lincoln
              > >
              > > >Marcia,
              > > >
              > > >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's
              > > heritage for some time.
              > > >Were you able to copy the article and would it be
              > > possible for you
              > > >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but
              > > was unable to get
              > > >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the
              > > computer.
              > > >
              > > >Your help would be appreciated.
              > > >
              > > >Nula Tingleff
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
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              >
              > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
              >
              > Pitt County Historical Society:
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              >
              > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II
              > CHRONICALS earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for
              > detail instructions:
              >
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
              >
              >
              > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form,
              > limited supply:
              >
              http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
              >
              === message truncated ===


              __________________________________
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              New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
              http://photos.yahoo.com/
            • Rhet Wilkinson
              This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet ... From: marcia_mclawhorn To:
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: marcia_mclawhorn
                To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
                Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth


                Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports that Richard Eller, a
                Catawba Valley Community College history Professor, and Jerry
                Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book "The Tarheel
                Lincoln," which was released this year. The article states that the
                book is the result of research of the claim that the 16th president
                was born in Rutherford County, NC; an illegitimate son of a North
                Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the fact that tradition
                has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County, KY.

                The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight thought there are phyical
                resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined by comparing
                photographs of the tall lanky men.



                Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                ADVERTISEMENT




                Pitt County Historical Society: http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

                Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm

                RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm

                Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources: http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

                We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir


                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Evelyn Hendricks
                When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty years ago-we were taught that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that reason his supposed father always
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                  When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty years ago-we were taught
                  that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that reason his supposed
                  father always wanted to live in isolated areas. At that time I believe,
                  Abe's mother was supposed to have been a waitress in a tavern and the father
                  was one of the customers. I doubt it is true, but that was the story then.
                  Evelyn


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Rhet Wilkinson" <rhet@...>
                  To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:09 AM
                  Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth


                  > This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS that there is a debate as
                  to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: marcia_mclawhorn
                  > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
                  > Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                  >
                  >
                  > Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports that Richard Eller, a
                  > Catawba Valley Community College history Professor, and Jerry
                  > Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book "The Tarheel
                  > Lincoln," which was released this year. The article states that the
                  > book is the result of research of the claim that the 16th president
                  > was born in Rutherford County, NC; an illegitimate son of a North
                  > Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the fact that tradition
                  > has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County, KY.
                  >
                  > The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight thought there are phyical
                  > resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined by comparing
                  > photographs of the tall lanky men.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  > ADVERTISEMENT
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Pitt County Historical Society:
                  http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                  >
                  > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                  earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                  > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                  >
                  > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply:
                  http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                  >
                  > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
                  http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                  >
                  > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic
                  group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and
                  all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                  > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                  > Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Pitt County Historical Society:
                  http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                  >
                  > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS earmarked
                  for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                  > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                  >
                  > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply:
                  http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                  >
                  > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
                  http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                  >
                  > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic group
                  if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt and all
                  Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                  > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                  > Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Carol Singh
                  Dear Evelyn, The article I referred to from researching the Yahoo site mentioned that there were about ten women named Nancy Hanks who were close in age to the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                    Dear Evelyn, The article I referred to from
                    researching the Yahoo site mentioned that there were
                    about ten women named Nancy Hanks who were close in
                    age to the mother of Abraham Lincoln. Additionally,
                    the older sister of Nancy Hanks, according to the
                    author (Steers) of the article on Yahoo, did have an
                    illegitimate son. Since record keeping was not at the
                    level it is today and since DNA testing was unknown,
                    it is not surprising that a controversy should arise.
                    When I was in school myself, I was taught that Abraham
                    Lincoln's father was Thomas Lincoln and that the
                    family lived in remote areas because the father made
                    his living primarily through hunting (fur trading) and
                    that additionally any meat that was not needed by the
                    family he sold to add to the family's income. In
                    another class, the teacher noted that Thomas Lincoln
                    was a loner who often went on long hunting trips--the
                    more so following the death of Nancy--from which he
                    did not return for days. According to this teacher,
                    the Lincoln children were on their own during the
                    absence of their father. Later, after the marriage of
                    Thomas to his second wife, the children welcomed her
                    because now there was an adult always with them and
                    they felt more like a family again rather than like
                    orphans. Whatever the case, I doubt that anyone can
                    deny the hardship a child experiences after losing a
                    parent--whether through death as was common in
                    Lincoln's day or through divorce as is common in our
                    own day. Perhaps Lincoln was a better person for
                    having had the childhood he did. As for Thomas
                    Lincoln, as with the parents of so many people who
                    later became famous, one always wonders how much of
                    what we have been taught is true, how much is fantasy,
                    and how much is conjecture. I guess, too, that many of
                    us might say the same of ancestors we ourselves never
                    knew. The important think is that we remember them and
                    try to think kindly of them in spite of the
                    circumstances of their lives and their human failings.
                    Later, Carol
                    --- Evelyn Hendricks <rebh@...> wrote:
                    > When I was in school in the dark ages--over sixty
                    > years ago-we were taught
                    > that Abraham Lincoln was illegitimate and for that
                    > reason his supposed
                    > father always wanted to live in isolated areas. At
                    > that time I believe,
                    > Abe's mother was supposed to have been a waitress in
                    > a tavern and the father
                    > was one of the customers. I doubt it is true, but
                    > that was the story then.
                    > Evelyn
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Rhet Wilkinson" <rhet@...>
                    > To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:09 AM
                    > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                    >
                    >
                    > > This is not a new idea. I have heard for YEARS
                    > that there is a debate as
                    > to exactly where he was born etc. Rhet
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: marcia_mclawhorn
                    > > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 7:00 PM
                    > > Subject: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Today, the "Chicago Tribune" (page 24) reports
                    > that Richard Eller, a
                    > > Catawba Valley Community College history
                    > Professor, and Jerry
                    > > Goodnight, a retired schoolteacher, wrote a book
                    > "The Tarheel
                    > > Lincoln," which was released this year. The
                    > article states that the
                    > > book is the result of research of the claim that
                    > the 16th president
                    > > was born in Rutherford County, NC; an
                    > illegitimate son of a North
                    > > Carolinian named Abraham Enloe. This dispite the
                    > fact that tradition
                    > > has his birth on Feb. 12 1809 in Hardin County,
                    > KY.
                    > >
                    > > The "Trib" states that Eller and Goodnight
                    > thought there are phyical
                    > > resemblance between Lincoln and Enloe determined
                    > by comparing
                    > > photographs of the tall lanky men.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > > ADVERTISEMENT
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Pitt County Historical Society:
                    > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                    > >
                    > > Submit your family for publication FREE in
                    > VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                    > earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail
                    > instructions:
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                    > >
                    > > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order
                    > Form, limited supply:
                    >
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                    > >
                    > > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical
                    > Resources:
                    > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                    > >
                    > > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you
                    > to join our dynamic
                    > group if you are interested in genealogy discussion
                    > and research in Pitt and
                    > all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                    > > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                    > > Research
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
                    > Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                    > removed]
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Pitt County Historical Society:
                    > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                    > >
                    > > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME
                    > II CHRONICALS earmarked
                    > for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                    > >
                    >
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                    > >
                    > > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form,
                    > limited supply:
                    >
                    http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.htm
                    > >
                    > > Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical
                    > Resources:
                    > http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/
                    > >
                    > > We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to
                    > join our dynamic group
                    > if you are interested in genealogy discussion and
                    > research in Pitt and all
                    > Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties.
                    > > GenealogyPITT Co NC Friends In
                    > > Research
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                  • Cvbeck
                    Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager- Marie Osmond, (2 & 3) 20 s - Pat Benetar and Sheena
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                      Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta
                      Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager- Marie Osmond, (2 & 3)
                      20's - Pat Benetar and Sheena Easton. I like to sing...Where's the
                      Dough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

                      HA HA HA!

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Carol Singh [mailto:csinghworthington@...]
                      Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:03 AM
                      To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Re: Abraham Lincoln's birth


                      Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
                      evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show, which
                      has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
                      Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
                      paternity using the justification that the baby "looks
                      just like" the man they think is the father, while the
                      men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
                      course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
                      fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded, too,
                      of all the rage about this and that look-alike
                      contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen Elizabeth--we're too
                      young I think to claim title to being the Russian princess Anatasia.
                      Besides we'd have a hard time making any money off the Russian title,
                      but we might come into some change if we landed the British title.
                      Later, Carol
                      --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                      wrote:
                      > Carol,
                      >
                      > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
                      > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
                      > comparing photographs.
                      >
                      > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
                      > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old photographs.
                      > (Photography was just available in 1836).
                      >
                      > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
                      > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around on
                      > her husband. The apparently well researched
                      > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
                      > middle child.
                      >
                      > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
                      >
                      > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
                      > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
                      > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
                      > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near Hodgenville,
                      > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
                      > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
                      > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
                      >
                      >
                      > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
                      > interest:
                      >
                      > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
                      > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle Creek,
                      > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
                      > parents.
                      > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
                      > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co, NC.
                      > Evidently both died after 1870.
                      >
                      > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County, NC
                      >
                      > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                      > * *
                      >
                      > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
                      > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should just
                      > swap photos?
                      >
                      > Marcia
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
                      > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
                      > paternity
                      > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by doing
                      > a
                      > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
                      > "Abraham
                      > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
                      > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
                      > and
                      > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
                      > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
                      > County, North Carolina. One problem college
                      > professors
                      > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to get recognition is to

                      > write about a controversial topic. Lincoln's paternity fits the bill.
                      > However,I am not saying that such motives influenced the book under
                      > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
                      > historical and genealogical subjects should be
                      > carefully researched and that even under the best of
                      > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
                      > of
                      > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
                      > paternity
                      > until now, so that shows my own
                      > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
                      > drew
                      > my attention and interest, so I decided to check it
                      > out and report back what I learned if it might be of
                      > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
                      > quite
                      > a few people over the years said that my Uncle Mark
                      > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
                      > might
                      > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
                      > Enloe
                      > might have been related to one or another of the
                      > families in our group. All his life, though, my
                      > uncle
                      > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
                      > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
                      > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
                      > Later, Carol
                      > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > To Nula,
                      > >
                      > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
                      > 12/08/03,
                      > > I found at Trib
                      > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
                      > >
                      > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
                      > > Published December 7, 2003
                      > >
                      > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
                      > wedlock
                      > >
                      > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
                      > > that has been taboo
                      > > for years, two North Carolina researchers believe
                      > > President Abraham
                      > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
                      > > North Carolinian
                      > > named Abraham Enloe.
                      > >
                      > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
                      > > earlier this year,
                      > > Catawba Valley Community College history professor
                      > > Richard Eller and
                      > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
                      > > decades-old claims
                      > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
                      > > County, about 60 miles
                      > > west of Charlotte.
                      > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb. 12,
                      > > 1809, in Hardin
                      > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
                      > > Lincoln a few months
                      > > before he was nominated to be president.
                      > >
                      > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
                      > > North Carolina
                      > > origins on a physical resemblance between Lincoln
                      > > and Enloe, which
                      > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of the
                      > > tall, lanky men.
                      > >
                      > > Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > (Note error: 'Eller and Enlow' in last paragraph
                      > > should be 'Eller and
                      > > Goodnight' - the authors. Enlow lived in 1800's. -
                      > > Marcia).
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The article does not indicate a strong case, so I
                      > > used Google to
                      > > research good, olde Abe - see this sight search
                      > > critera was "Abraham
                      > > Lincoln's mother" selected:
                      > >
                      >
                      http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/6552/lincoln.htm
                      > >
                      > > Marcia
                      > >
                      >
                      ______________________________________________________________
                      > > >Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2003 11:53:29 EST
                      > > >Subject: Abraham Lincoln
                      > >
                      > > >Marcia,
                      > > >
                      > > >I have had an interest in Abraham Lincoln's
                      > > heritage for some time.
                      > > >Were you able to copy the article and would it be
                      > > possible for you
                      > > >to send it to me. I went to the Tribune page but
                      > > was unable to get
                      > > >any results. Probably beyond my abilities on the
                      > > computer.
                      > > >
                      > > >Your help would be appreciated.
                      > > >
                      > > >Nula Tingleff
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________
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                      > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
                      >
                      > Pitt County Historical Society:
                      > http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/
                      >
                      > Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                      > earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                      >
                      http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm
                      >
                      >
                      > RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form,
                      > limited supply:
                      >
                      http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.ht
                      m
                      >
                      === message truncated ===


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                      Pitt County Historical Society:
                      http://www.pittcountyhistoricalsociety.com/

                      Submit your family for publication FREE in VOLUME II CHRONICALS
                      earmarked for 2004/2005. Link here for detail instructions:
                      http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/VolumeIIChronicles.htm

                      RePrint of 1982 Chronicles of Pitt Co Order Form, limited supply:
                      http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/Chronicles%20Flyer%20Feb03.ht
                      m

                      Treasure-Trove of PITT Co.NC Genealogical Resources:
                      http://www.usgennet.org/usa/nc/county/pitt/

                      We welcome all Archives visitors and invite you to join our dynamic
                      group if you are interested in genealogy discussion and research in Pitt
                      and all Eastern and Coastal North Carolina counties. GenealogyPITT Co NC
                      Friends In
                      Research http://groups.yahoo.com/group/genpcncfir


                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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                    • linda bass
                      All in-coming and out-going mail is checked by Norton Anti-Virus ... From: Carol Singh To: Sent:
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 9, 2003
                        All in-coming and out-going mail
                        is checked by Norton Anti-Virus
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Carol Singh" <csinghworthington@...>
                        To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:45 PM
                        Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth

                        I personally found reading about the "who is/who isn't" Abe Lincoln parents
                        historically funny. Pun intended. I have been away from my computer for the
                        past 8 days and catching up on my reading about all that has been written
                        struck my funny bone in just the right places. Thanks for the chuckles. I
                        had never heard these storied before and can only imagine the fun someone
                        had writing about this tall lanky 16th president. Wouldn't it be great if
                        someone could/would exhume' the bodies and prove what' what's/who's who's? I
                        bet the DNA people would have a ball with this puzzle.
                      • Carol Singh
                        Dear Linda, I ve thought about exhuming a few to fulfill the prophecy from the t.v. program Unsolved Mysteries; You too can solve a mystery! Right! I can t
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 10, 2003
                          Dear Linda, I've thought about exhuming a few to
                          fulfill the prophecy from the t.v. program "Unsolved
                          Mysteries;" "You too can solve a mystery!" Right! I
                          can't wait! Of course, I might bite off more than I
                          can chew. When one starts digging, one never knows
                          what he will unearth. Still, I have a better reason
                          than "Father Abraham" as I call him. I have not been
                          able to find a marriage record for Jacky Ann McGowan,
                          my maternal great grandmother. My grandmother Jennie
                          Secession McGowan's father was her mother's cousin
                          William McGowan. The only problem is that she had four
                          cousins named William McGowan that I know of. Jennie
                          Secession McGowan and mother Jacky Ann McGowan were
                          living in the 1880 census in the household of Lemuel
                          McGowan,Sr. and Paulina (Perlina, Mama said her name
                          was)McGowan his wife--parents of Jacky Ann McGowan.
                          Jennie was listed as one-year old granddaughter.
                          Jennie's tombstone gives the birth as 1882 or 83 (I
                          forget which but a contradiction of the census
                          record). If any of you has the information that will
                          help me definitively solve this mystery, just think,
                          "You too can solve a mystery." Thanks, Carol
                          --- linda bass <Lou-BB@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > All in-coming and out-going mail
                          > is checked by Norton Anti-Virus
                          > ----- Original Message -----
                          > From: "Carol Singh" <csinghworthington@...>
                          > To: <genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 8:45 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Abraham Lincoln's birth
                          >
                          > I personally found reading about the "who is/who
                          > isn't" Abe Lincoln parents
                          > historically funny. Pun intended. I have been away
                          > from my computer for the
                          > past 8 days and catching up on my reading about all
                          > that has been written
                          > struck my funny bone in just the right places.
                          > Thanks for the chuckles. I
                          > had never heard these storied before and can only
                          > imagine the fun someone
                          > had writing about this tall lanky 16th president.
                          > Wouldn't it be great if
                          > someone could/would exhume' the bodies and prove
                          > what' what's/who's who's? I
                          > bet the DNA people would have a ball with this
                          > puzzle.
                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • Carol Singh
                          See what I mean? I wanted to be Dolly Parton myself. People tell me I have the look, but hey, the money (as you have pointed out) is in the voice. Why couldn t
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 10, 2003
                            See what I mean? I wanted to be Dolly Parton myself.
                            People tell me I have the look, but hey, the money (as
                            you have pointed out) is in the voice. Why couldn't I
                            have just had the voice? Later, Carol
                            --- Cvbeck <cvbeck@...> wrote:
                            > Hey, Growing up, My Mom looked exactly like Loretta
                            > Lynn.................I looked like (1) Teenager-
                            > Marie Osmond, (2 & 3)
                            > 20's - Pat Benetar and Sheena Easton. I like to
                            > sing...Where's the
                            > Dough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
                            >
                            > HA HA HA!
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Carol Singh
                            > [mailto:csinghworthington@...]
                            > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 10:03 AM
                            > To: genpcncfir@yahoogroups.com
                            > Subject: Re: [genpcncfir] Re: Abraham Lincoln's
                            > birth
                            >
                            >
                            > Dear Marcia and group, I loved the photographic
                            > evidence. I'm reminded of the Maury Povich show,
                            > which
                            > has become a replication almost of Jerry Springer.
                            > Many of the women are trying to prove their babies'
                            > paternity using the justification that the baby
                            > "looks
                            > just like" the man they think is the father, while
                            > the
                            > men are saying the babies look nothing like them. Of
                            > course the DNA results continue to prove that looks
                            > fail the test more often than not. I'm reminded,
                            > too,
                            > of all the rage about this and that look-alike
                            > contests. Hey, maybe one of us could pass for Queen
                            > Elizabeth--we're too
                            > young I think to claim title to being the Russian
                            > princess Anatasia.
                            > Besides we'd have a hard time making any money off
                            > the Russian title,
                            > but we might come into some change if we landed the
                            > British title.
                            > Later, Carol
                            > --- Marcia McLawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > Carol,
                            > >
                            > > You nailed it on the head! The article indicated
                            > > that these researchers decided Abe's parentage by
                            > > comparing photographs.
                            > >
                            > > WOW! In today's world of DNA testing, someone's
                            > > going to prove parentage by comparing 150 year-old
                            > photographs.
                            > > (Photography was just available in 1836).
                            > >
                            > > If Eller and Enloe statements were true, then
                            > > Lincoln's mother, Nancy Hanks, was fooling around
                            > on
                            > > her husband. The apparently well researched
                            > > genealogical site I mentioned has Abe Lincoln as a
                            > > middle child.
                            > >
                            > > Children of Thomas Lincoln and Nancy Hanks are:
                            > >
                            > > i. Sarah Lincoln, born February 10, 1807 in
                            > > Elizabethtown, Hardin County, KY.
                            > > ii. Abraham Lincoln, born February 12, 1809 in
                            > > family home, Sinking Spring Farm, near
                            > Hodgenville,
                            > > Hardin Co (now Larue), KY.
                            > > iii. Thomas Lincoln, born 1811 in Nolin Creek,
                            > > Washington Co or possibly Hardin Co, KY.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Of note - on FamilySearch I found these records of
                            > > interest:
                            > >
                            > > Children of Abraham "Abram" ENLOE and Nancy HANKS
                            > > are: Abraham ENLOE born12 FEB 1806 in Puzzle
                            > Creek,
                            > > , Rutherford, NC.No dates or locations for the
                            > > parents.
                            > > Marriage of Abraham ENLOE (c1770 NC) to Sally
                            > > EDGERTON (c1775 NC) 9 Jan 1795 in Rutherford Co,
                            > NC.
                            > > Evidently both died after 1870.
                            > >
                            > > No Enloe's are in 1880 Census Rutherford County,
                            > NC
                            > >
                            > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                            > *
                            > > * *
                            > >
                            > > I thought the article was interesting to all of us
                            > > hard- researching individuals. Maybe we should
                            > just
                            > > swap photos?
                            > >
                            > > Marcia
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Carol Singh <csinghworthington@...> wrote:
                            > > Dear Group, I've just read an article on the
                            > > paternity
                            > > of Abraham Lincoln from the web. I found it by
                            > doing
                            > > a
                            > > search at http://www.Yahoo.com and searching
                            > > "Abraham
                            > > Lincoln's paternity." There on the first page was
                            > > reference to the article by Ed Steers, "historian
                            > > and
                            > > Lincoln author," giving a rebuttal to the argument
                            > > that his father was Abraham Enloe of Rutherford
                            > > County, North Carolina. One problem college
                            > > professors
                            > > face is the pressure to publish. The best way to
                            > get recognition is to
                            >
                            > > write about a controversial topic. Lincoln's
                            > paternity fits the bill.
                            > > However,I am not saying that such motives
                            > influenced the book under
                            > > discussion, only that whatever one writes on
                            > > historical and genealogical subjects should be
                            > > carefully researched and that even under the best
                            > of
                            > > precautions, errors will creep in. I'd never heard
                            > > of
                            > > serious doubts being raised about Lincoln's
                            > > paternity
                            > > until now, so that shows my own
                            > > knowledge deficit on the subject. The discussion
                            > > drew
                            > > my attention and interest, so I decided to check
                            > it
                            > > out and report back what I learned if it might be
                            > of
                            > > interest to our group. On a more personal note,
                            > > quite
                            > > a few people over the years said that my Uncle
                            > Mark
                            > > looked like Abraham Lincoln, so learning that he
                            > > might
                            > > have been a Tarheel spiked my interest--perhaps
                            > > Enloe
                            > > might have been related to one or another of the
                            > > families in our group. All his life, though, my
                            > > uncle
                            > > denied it. Instead, he claimed kinship to Ichabod
                            > > Crane--he of the long arms and legs and hero of
                            > > Washington Irving's "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow."
                            > > Later, Carol
                            > > --- marcia_mclawhorn <marcia_mclawhorn@...>
                            > > wrote:
                            > > > To Nula,
                            > > >
                            > > > Your emails keep bouncing back to me. On
                            > > 12/08/03,
                            > > > I found at Trib
                            > > > website after searching for "North Carolina"
                            > > >
                            > > > Item compiled from Tribune news services
                            > > > Published December 7, 2003
                            > > >
                            > > > Book argues Lincoln born out of
                            > > wedlock
                            > > >
                            > > > HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA -- Investigating a topic
                            > > > that has been taboo
                            > > > for years, two North Carolina researchers
                            > believe
                            > > > President Abraham
                            > > > Lincoln may have been the illegitimate son of a
                            > > > North Carolinian
                            > > > named Abraham Enloe.
                            > > >
                            > > > In their book "The Tarheel Lincoln," released
                            > > > earlier this year,
                            > > > Catawba Valley Community College history
                            > professor
                            > > > Richard Eller and
                            > > > retired schoolteacher Jerry Goodnight research
                            > > > decades-old claims
                            > > > that the 16th president was born in Rutherford
                            > > > County, about 60 miles
                            > > > west of Charlotte.
                            > > > Traditional claims that Lincoln was born Feb.
                            > 12,
                            > > > 1809, in Hardin
                            > > > County, Ky., are based on a statement written by
                            > > > Lincoln a few months
                            > > > before he was nominated to be president.
                            > > >
                            > > > Eller and Enloe base their argument on Lincoln's
                            > > > North Carolina
                            > > > origins on a physical resemblance between
                            > Lincoln
                            > > > and Enloe, which
                            > > > the authors noted by comparing photographs of
                            > the
                            >
                            === message truncated ===


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                          • tarheellincoln1
                            As one of the author s of the new book on Lincoln s paternity I would like to respond to some statements made here. First, our research is not based upon
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 3, 2004
                              As one of the author's of the new book on Lincoln's paternity I would
                              like to respond to some statements made here. First, our research is
                              not based upon lookalikes alone. Though interesting, that kind of
                              evidence would never make an adequate case for Abraham Lincoln being
                              the son of anyone. If you check out the book you will find one full
                              chapter dedicated to the only real evidence that matters, DNA. Our
                              work has included that of a forensic pathologist who has been working
                              toward the goal of testing the Lincolns for a number of years. The
                              intent of the book is to begin discussion of this possibility so that
                              sources that now hold Lincoln DNA might be persuaded to allow some of
                              its usage to test this story which has been going around the
                              mountains of North Carolina for almost 200 years. Your critique of
                              the book baffles me. You take the same sort of "off the cuff"
                              position about our work as what you accuse of taking in our
                              research. I would suggest that you read the book and not the wire
                              service article before forming an opinion. I really don't intend to
                              be caustic about your previous statements, I would just rather have a
                              well informed discussion. That way, we all know what we are talking
                              about. Richard Eller
                              >
                              >
                              > __________________________________
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                            • Carol Singh
                              Sir, I myself take no pleasure in downing a book with or without examining it. When asked my opinion, I acknowledged not having read the book. Instead I read
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 3, 2004
                                Sir, I myself take no pleasure in downing a book with
                                or without examining it. When asked my opinion, I
                                acknowledged not having read the book. Instead I read
                                critiques of the book, as our library does not own
                                your book. Based upon those and allowing that the
                                conclusions drawn were correct, then there followed
                                the opinion I expressed. With those reservations, I
                                prefaced my remarks. I doubt that any of us who are
                                interested in genealogy and in the combined fields of
                                genalogy and history would with malice aforethought
                                make light of your work or of your interest in
                                pursuing DNA evidence. While it would be rewarding to
                                have actual DNA support for your argument, to date it
                                does not exist--if I understand you correctly.
                                Therefore, you have put before us an interesting
                                hypothesis rather than proof--again if I understand
                                you correctly--and you would like to have the DNA
                                analysis to support your argument. Certainly such
                                evidence would be desirable, and I doubt that anyone
                                would dispute you on the subject. To date, though, we
                                don't have it, and we can only use what we do have. I
                                do not blame you for defending your work. Any of us
                                would do the same in your place. I sincerely hope that
                                whoever is in a position to provide you the DNA you
                                need to determine Lincoln's parentage does so--in the
                                interest of both history and science, if not in that
                                of simple human nature. In the meantime, pardon both
                                my humor and my reservations. We Tarheels are famous
                                for our laughter and our skepticism. Among us these
                                characteristics are the ties that bind. Please take
                                our remarks to each other in the vein in which they
                                were intended. None of us had the intention of
                                offending anyone. Carol
                                --- tarheellincoln1 <tarheellincoln1@...> wrote:
                                > As one of the author's of the new book on Lincoln's
                                > paternity I would
                                > like to respond to some statements made here.
                                > First, our research is
                                > not based upon lookalikes alone. Though
                                > interesting, that kind of
                                > evidence would never make an adequate case for
                                > Abraham Lincoln being
                                > the son of anyone. If you check out the book you
                                > will find one full
                                > chapter dedicated to the only real evidence that
                                > matters, DNA. Our
                                > work has included that of a forensic pathologist who
                                > has been working
                                > toward the goal of testing the Lincolns for a number
                                > of years. The
                                > intent of the book is to begin discussion of this
                                > possibility so that
                                > sources that now hold Lincoln DNA might be persuaded
                                > to allow some of
                                > its usage to test this story which has been going
                                > around the
                                > mountains of North Carolina for almost 200 years.
                                > Your critique of
                                > the book baffles me. You take the same sort of "off
                                > the cuff"
                                > position about our work as what you accuse of taking
                                > in our
                                > research. I would suggest that you read the book
                                > and not the wire
                                > service article before forming an opinion. I really
                                > don't intend to
                                > be caustic about your previous statements, I would
                                > just rather have a
                                > well informed discussion. That way, we all know
                                > what we are talking
                                > about. Richard Eller
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > __________________________________
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                                >
                                >


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