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Re: Walter BOWERS 1869-1876

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  • glen
    Hi Mr Tom Knox, and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know why Mary
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 15, 2006
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      Hi Mr Tom Knox,
      and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
      research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know
      why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration details
      but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
      England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but I
      researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was born
      Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in Runcorn
      he was born
      almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann were married he may have
      been someone
      elses child and not Walters I have sent for his birth cert.
      Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret Pope in
      1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers born
      1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my distant
      cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on the
      plains and when he came back to England with his father they had to
      leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if so
      was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or did
      Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we will
      never know I don't think,
      best regards for your help and interest, I will be letting you know
      if anything crops up
      Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knox"
      <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
      >
      > Glen -
      >
      > I searched for WALT* BOW*R* in CT
      > and WALT* BOW*R* from ENGLAND -
      >
      > 1870 Portland, Middlesex, CT - Page 51
      > Bowers, Walter, 22 Quarry Laborer born England
      > (), Mary A, 22 Keeps House born England
      > (), Alfred T, 1 born England
      > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      > htx=View&r=an&dbid=7163&iid=CTM593_108-0366
      >
      > Oh! How interesting! All were born in England -
      > I wonder if they were *married* in England?
      >
      > England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
      > Name: Walter Bowers
      > Year of Registration: 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep
      > District: Runcorn
      > County: Cheshire
      > Volume: 8a Page: 291
      > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      > htx=view&r=an&dbid=8913&iid=ONS_M18694AZ-0480
      > NOTE: Married on that same year/quarter in the same
      district/county
      > and same volume/page are:
      > 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep Runcorn Cheshire 8a 291
      > Walter Bowers
      > Mary Ann Haddock
      > Emma Cole
      > James Henry Drover
      >
      > Was "Mary Ann Haddock" the first wife of Walter Bowers?
      >
      > Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943
      > Name: Walter Bowers
      > Arrival Date: 16 Oct 1869
      > Age: 21 years
      > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
      > Gender: Male
      > Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
      > Ship Name: Samaria
      > Port of Arrival: Boston, Massachusetts
      > Microfilm Roll Number: M277_76
      > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      > htx=View&r=an&dbid=8745&iid=MAM277_76-0355
      > Occupation: Laborer
      > Origin: England
      > Part of Vessel Occupied: Steerage
      >
      > If these puzzle-pieces fit together (marriage & emigration dates),
      > then it is very possible that "Alfred T" (1870 census)
      > might have actually been born in the U.S. not in England.
      > But then - where is the immigration record for MARY BOWERS?
      >
      > Is this your Walter BOWERS after his return to England?
      > 1881 England Census
      > Civil Parish: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
      > Street address: Perrey St
      > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      > htx=view&r=an&dbid=7572&iid=CHSRG11_3513_3517-0363
      > Bowers, Walter, head 33 Blacksmith born Cheshire Runcorn
      > (), Margaret, wife 30 Wife born Cheshire ?Frodsham
      > (), William H, son 8 Scholar born U S America
      > Bowers, Thomas/4, Annie/3, Eunice M/2 (all born Cheshire Runcorn
      >
      > - Tom Knox IBSSG
      >
      >
      > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Could any kind person with privy to immigration lists from
      england
      > to usa (dates above) perform a search for me?
      > > I am looking for my great grandfather Walter Bowers born 1848
      who
      > > emmigrated between the above dates, he had a son named William
      Henry
      > > Bowers who stated in later English census that he was born in
      > Portland Connecticut, the family came home before 1876 when my
      > grandfather remarried, his first wife Mary Ann we presume had died
      in
      > Portland.
      > > Also I am being cheeky here any USA census info' would be
      totally
      > > appreciated,
      > > best regards
      > > Glen (female)
      > > Lancashire England
      > >
      >
    • Tom Knox
      ... Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) - I wouldn t want to call William Henry Bowers a liar exactly, but I think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 15, 2006
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        > ... William Henry Bowers born 1873 Portland USA told a tale
        > to his grandchildren (my distant cousin through Walter)
        > that he was born in a covered wagon on the plains
        > and when he came back to England with his father ...

        Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) -
        I wouldn't want to call "William Henry Bowers" a liar exactly, but I
        think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if he was born
        in Portland, CT, USA (the state of Connecticut in the region of New
        England of the United States) (the location of the 1870 census of
        Walter & Mary Bowers), then he definitely was NOT "born in a covered
        wagon on the plains"! Connecticut is a LONG ways away from the Great
        Plains of the United States (over 1,000 miles away!), and
        Connecticut is a small state that would not be described as
        having "plains" at all! It sounds like he may have been confusing
        the location of Portland, Connecticut, on the EAST coast of America
        with Portland, Oregon, which is 3,000 miles away on the WEST coast
        of America, on the other side of the Great Plains! Or William may
        have simply been repeating stories told to HIM by his father Walter -
        after all, William H was no older than age 3 when he went back to
        England with his father Walter before 1877!
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut
        state of Connecticut - 70 miles wide by 110 miles long

        Noting the 1881 census with Thomas age 4 born England, then Walter
        Bowers must have returned to England before 1877. That time period
        (after William's birth in 1873 and before Walter's return to England
        before 1877) DOES give time for the possibility that Walter & Mary
        and infant William H *MAY HAVE* attempted a trip west in a covered
        wagon (With no clue of what happened to Alfred T). And if the Bowers
        family did attempt such a trip, then Mary and Alfred Bowers could be
        buried almost anywhere in the United States. However - I would still
        suggest looking near Portland, Connecticut, as the first possibility.

        This reminds me of someone I was helping with their genealogy (in
        Wisconsin, USA) - she INSISTED that her grandfather (deceased) was
        an immigrant from Germany and born in Berlin - after some digging,
        documentation showed that he was really second-generation American
        (of German ancestry) born in BERLIN, WISCONSIN (the "immigrant" part
        she must have assumed after originally assuming that her grandfather
        was born in BERLIN, GERMANY.)

        - Tom Knox IBSSG


        --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mr Tom Knox,
        > and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
        > research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know
        > why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration details
        > but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
        > England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but I
        > researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was born
        > Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in
        Runcorn he was born almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann were
        married he may have been someone elses child and not Walters I have
        sent for his birth cert.
        > Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret Pope
        in 1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers
        born 1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my distant
        > cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on the
        > plains and when he came back to England with his father they had
        to leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if so
        was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or did
        > Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we will
        > never know I don't think, best regards for your help and interest,
        I will be letting you know if anything crops up
        > Glen.
      • glen
        Hello Tom Knox, I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from USA he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling? he died
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 16, 2006
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          Hello Tom Knox,
          I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from USA
          he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling?
          he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
          wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went off
          somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
          never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the covered
          wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
          c1873 his grandchildren reported,
          regards Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom
          Knox" <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > > ... William Henry Bowers born 1873 Portland USA told a tale
          > > to his grandchildren (my distant cousin through Walter)
          > > that he was born in a covered wagon on the plains
          > > and when he came back to England with his father ...
          >
          > Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) -
          > I wouldn't want to call "William Henry Bowers" a liar exactly, but
          I
          > think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if he was born
          > in Portland, CT, USA (the state of Connecticut in the region of
          New
          > England of the United States) (the location of the 1870 census of
          > Walter & Mary Bowers), then he definitely was NOT "born in a
          covered
          > wagon on the plains"! Connecticut is a LONG ways away from the
          Great
          > Plains of the United States (over 1,000 miles away!), and
          > Connecticut is a small state that would not be described as
          > having "plains" at all! It sounds like he may have been confusing
          > the location of Portland, Connecticut, on the EAST coast of
          America
          > with Portland, Oregon, which is 3,000 miles away on the WEST coast
          > of America, on the other side of the Great Plains! Or William may
          > have simply been repeating stories told to HIM by his father
          Walter -
          > after all, William H was no older than age 3 when he went back to
          > England with his father Walter before 1877!
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut
          > state of Connecticut - 70 miles wide by 110 miles long
          >
          > Noting the 1881 census with Thomas age 4 born England, then Walter
          > Bowers must have returned to England before 1877. That time period
          > (after William's birth in 1873 and before Walter's return to
          England
          > before 1877) DOES give time for the possibility that Walter & Mary
          > and infant William H *MAY HAVE* attempted a trip west in a covered
          > wagon (With no clue of what happened to Alfred T). And if the
          Bowers
          > family did attempt such a trip, then Mary and Alfred Bowers could
          be
          > buried almost anywhere in the United States. However - I would
          still
          > suggest looking near Portland, Connecticut, as the first
          possibility.
          >
          > This reminds me of someone I was helping with their genealogy (in
          > Wisconsin, USA) - she INSISTED that her grandfather (deceased) was
          > an immigrant from Germany and born in Berlin - after some digging,
          > documentation showed that he was really second-generation American
          > (of German ancestry) born in BERLIN, WISCONSIN (the "immigrant"
          part
          > she must have assumed after originally assuming that her
          grandfather
          > was born in BERLIN, GERMANY.)
          >
          > - Tom Knox IBSSG
          >
          >
          > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Mr Tom Knox,
          > > and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
          > > research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not
          know
          > > why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration
          details
          > > but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
          > > England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but
          I
          > > researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was
          born
          > > Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in
          > Runcorn he was born almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann
          were
          > married he may have been someone elses child and not Walters I
          have
          > sent for his birth cert.
          > > Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret
          Pope
          > in 1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers
          > born 1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my
          distant
          > > cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on
          the
          > > plains and when he came back to England with his father they had
          > to leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if
          so
          > was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or
          did
          > > Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we
          will
          > > never know I don't think, best regards for your help and
          interest,
          > I will be letting you know if anything crops up
          > > Glen.
          >
        • Tom Knox
          Glen - ... That s something else that we may never know. Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned the trade while never leaving
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 16, 2006
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            Glen -

            > do you think he learned his trade travelling?

            That's something else that we may never know.
            Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned the
            trade while never leaving Connecticut - and "rock work" also
            requires blacksmiths -
            - in 1870, Walter is listed as a "Quarry Laborer": he could have
            started learning the blacksmith trade while working at the quarry,
            or he could have learned the trade to get OUT of the quarry.

            Some other resources:

            BOWERS Genealogy Message Boards
            http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/surnames.bowers
            http://genforum.genealogy.com/bowers/

            U.S. GenWeb http://www.usgenweb.com/
            Connecticut http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctgenweb/
            Middlesex County http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/midlsxco.htm
            Portland, CT http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/Portland_Home.htm

            - Tom Knox


            --- In genealogyresearchclub@..., "glen" <glenfagan@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Tom Knox,
            > I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from
            USA
            > he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling?
            > he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
            > wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went
            off
            > somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
            > never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the
            covered
            > wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
            > c1873 his grandchildren reported,
            > regards Glen
          • glen
            Hello Tom Knox, thankyou for all those links very kind of you Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Tom Knox ... the ... travelling?
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 2, 2006
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              Hello Tom Knox,
              thankyou for all those links very kind of you
              Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knox"
              <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
              >
              > Glen -
              >
              > > do you think he learned his trade travelling?
              >
              > That's something else that we may never know.
              > Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned
              the
              > trade while never leaving Connecticut - and "rock work" also
              > requires blacksmiths -
              > - in 1870, Walter is listed as a "Quarry Laborer": he could have
              > started learning the blacksmith trade while working at the quarry,
              > or he could have learned the trade to get OUT of the quarry.
              >
              > Some other resources:
              >
              > BOWERS Genealogy Message Boards
              > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/surnames.bowers
              > http://genforum.genealogy.com/bowers/
              >
              > U.S. GenWeb http://www.usgenweb.com/
              > Connecticut http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctgenweb/
              > Middlesex County http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/midlsxco.htm
              > Portland, CT http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/Portland_Home.htm
              >
              > - Tom Knox
              >
              >
              > --- In genealogyresearchclub@, "glen" <glenfagan@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Tom Knox,
              > > I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from
              > USA
              > > he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade
              travelling?
              > > he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
              > > wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went
              > off
              > > somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
              > > never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the
              > covered
              > > wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
              > > c1873 his grandchildren reported,
              > > regards Glen
              >
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