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Re: Walter BOWERS 1869-1876

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  • Tom Knox
    Glen - I searched for WALT* BOW*R* in CT and WALT* BOW*R* from ENGLAND - 1870 Portland, Middlesex, CT - Page 51 Bowers, Walter, 22 Quarry Laborer born England
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 9 7:09 PM
      Glen -

      I searched for WALT* BOW*R* in CT
      and WALT* BOW*R* from ENGLAND -

      1870 Portland, Middlesex, CT - Page 51
      Bowers, Walter, 22 Quarry Laborer born England
      (), Mary A, 22 Keeps House born England
      (), Alfred T, 1 born England
      http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      htx=View&r=an&dbid=7163&iid=CTM593_108-0366

      Oh! How interesting! All were born in England -
      I wonder if they were *married* in England?

      England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
      Name: Walter Bowers
      Year of Registration: 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep
      District: Runcorn
      County: Cheshire
      Volume: 8a Page: 291
      http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      htx=view&r=an&dbid=8913&iid=ONS_M18694AZ-0480
      NOTE: Married on that same year/quarter in the same district/county
      and same volume/page are:
      1869 Jul-Aug-Sep Runcorn Cheshire 8a 291
      Walter Bowers
      Mary Ann Haddock
      Emma Cole
      James Henry Drover

      Was "Mary Ann Haddock" the first wife of Walter Bowers?

      Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943
      Name: Walter Bowers
      Arrival Date: 16 Oct 1869
      Age: 21 years
      Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
      Gender: Male
      Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
      Ship Name: Samaria
      Port of Arrival: Boston, Massachusetts
      Microfilm Roll Number: M277_76
      http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      htx=View&r=an&dbid=8745&iid=MAM277_76-0355
      Occupation: Laborer
      Origin: England
      Part of Vessel Occupied: Steerage

      If these puzzle-pieces fit together (marriage & emigration dates),
      then it is very possible that "Alfred T" (1870 census)
      might have actually been born in the U.S. not in England.
      But then - where is the immigration record for MARY BOWERS?

      Is this your Walter BOWERS after his return to England?
      1881 England Census
      Civil Parish: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
      Street address: Perrey St
      http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
      htx=view&r=an&dbid=7572&iid=CHSRG11_3513_3517-0363
      Bowers, Walter, head 33 Blacksmith born Cheshire Runcorn
      (), Margaret, wife 30 Wife born Cheshire ?Frodsham
      (), William H, son 8 Scholar born U S America
      Bowers, Thomas/4, Annie/3, Eunice M/2 (all born Cheshire Runcorn

      - Tom Knox IBSSG


      --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Could any kind person with privy to immigration lists from england
      to usa (dates above) perform a search for me?
      > I am looking for my great grandfather Walter Bowers born 1848 who
      > emmigrated between the above dates, he had a son named William Henry
      > Bowers who stated in later English census that he was born in
      Portland Connecticut, the family came home before 1876 when my
      grandfather remarried, his first wife Mary Ann we presume had died in
      Portland.
      > Also I am being cheeky here any USA census info' would be totally
      > appreciated,
      > best regards
      > Glen (female)
      > Lancashire England
      >
    • Rebecca Betz-Festa
      Hi Glen: 1870 U.S. Cenus Page 51 (or could be 57) Town of Portland County of Middlesex State of Connecticut Enumerated 9th June 1970 Family #405 Bowers,
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 12 10:40 AM
        Hi Glen:


        1870 U.S. Cenus
        Page 51 (or could be 57)
        Town of Portland
        County of Middlesex
        State of Connecticut
        Enumerated 9th June 1970
        Family #405

        Bowers, Walter, age 22 - Male - White - Quarry Labor - born England
        Bowers, Mary A., age 22 - Female - White - Keeping House - born
        England - cannot write
        Bowers, Alfred T., age 1 - Male - White - born England

        all three entries are checked off for father foreign born and mother
        foreign born.

        I looked online, but could not find a death record for Mary Ann Bowers.

        Hope this helps.

        Rebecca





        --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Could any kind person with privy to immigration lists from england to
        > usa (dates above) perform a search for me?
        > I am looking for my great grandfather Walter Bowers born 1848 who
        > emmigrated between the above dates, he had a son named William Henry
        > Bowers who stated in later English census that he was born in
        Portland
        > Connecticut, the family came home before 1876 when my grandfather
        > remarried, his first wife Mary Ann we presume had died in Portland.
        > Also I am being cheeky here any USA census info' would be totally
        > appreciated,
        > best regards
        > Glen (female)
        > Lancashire England
        >
      • glen
        Hi Mr Tom Knox, and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know why Mary
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 15 6:50 AM
          Hi Mr Tom Knox,
          and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
          research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know
          why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration details
          but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
          England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but I
          researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was born
          Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in Runcorn
          he was born
          almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann were married he may have
          been someone
          elses child and not Walters I have sent for his birth cert.
          Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret Pope in
          1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers born
          1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my distant
          cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on the
          plains and when he came back to England with his father they had to
          leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if so
          was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or did
          Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we will
          never know I don't think,
          best regards for your help and interest, I will be letting you know
          if anything crops up
          Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knox"
          <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
          >
          > Glen -
          >
          > I searched for WALT* BOW*R* in CT
          > and WALT* BOW*R* from ENGLAND -
          >
          > 1870 Portland, Middlesex, CT - Page 51
          > Bowers, Walter, 22 Quarry Laborer born England
          > (), Mary A, 22 Keeps House born England
          > (), Alfred T, 1 born England
          > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
          > htx=View&r=an&dbid=7163&iid=CTM593_108-0366
          >
          > Oh! How interesting! All were born in England -
          > I wonder if they were *married* in England?
          >
          > England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
          > Name: Walter Bowers
          > Year of Registration: 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep
          > District: Runcorn
          > County: Cheshire
          > Volume: 8a Page: 291
          > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
          > htx=view&r=an&dbid=8913&iid=ONS_M18694AZ-0480
          > NOTE: Married on that same year/quarter in the same
          district/county
          > and same volume/page are:
          > 1869 Jul-Aug-Sep Runcorn Cheshire 8a 291
          > Walter Bowers
          > Mary Ann Haddock
          > Emma Cole
          > James Henry Drover
          >
          > Was "Mary Ann Haddock" the first wife of Walter Bowers?
          >
          > Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943
          > Name: Walter Bowers
          > Arrival Date: 16 Oct 1869
          > Age: 21 years
          > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
          > Gender: Male
          > Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
          > Ship Name: Samaria
          > Port of Arrival: Boston, Massachusetts
          > Microfilm Roll Number: M277_76
          > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
          > htx=View&r=an&dbid=8745&iid=MAM277_76-0355
          > Occupation: Laborer
          > Origin: England
          > Part of Vessel Occupied: Steerage
          >
          > If these puzzle-pieces fit together (marriage & emigration dates),
          > then it is very possible that "Alfred T" (1870 census)
          > might have actually been born in the U.S. not in England.
          > But then - where is the immigration record for MARY BOWERS?
          >
          > Is this your Walter BOWERS after his return to England?
          > 1881 England Census
          > Civil Parish: Runcorn, Cheshire, England
          > Street address: Perrey St
          > http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
          > htx=view&r=an&dbid=7572&iid=CHSRG11_3513_3517-0363
          > Bowers, Walter, head 33 Blacksmith born Cheshire Runcorn
          > (), Margaret, wife 30 Wife born Cheshire ?Frodsham
          > (), William H, son 8 Scholar born U S America
          > Bowers, Thomas/4, Annie/3, Eunice M/2 (all born Cheshire Runcorn
          >
          > - Tom Knox IBSSG
          >
          >
          > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Could any kind person with privy to immigration lists from
          england
          > to usa (dates above) perform a search for me?
          > > I am looking for my great grandfather Walter Bowers born 1848
          who
          > > emmigrated between the above dates, he had a son named William
          Henry
          > > Bowers who stated in later English census that he was born in
          > Portland Connecticut, the family came home before 1876 when my
          > grandfather remarried, his first wife Mary Ann we presume had died
          in
          > Portland.
          > > Also I am being cheeky here any USA census info' would be
          totally
          > > appreciated,
          > > best regards
          > > Glen (female)
          > > Lancashire England
          > >
          >
        • glen
          Thank you very much Rebecca, I have recieved lots of info and yours is appreciated Best regards Glen--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 15 6:52 AM
            Thank you very much Rebecca,
            I have recieved lots of info and yours is appreciated
            Best regards
            Glen--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Rebecca Betz-
            Festa" <vct@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Glen:
            >
            >
            > 1870 U.S. Cenus
            > Page 51 (or could be 57)
            > Town of Portland
            > County of Middlesex
            > State of Connecticut
            > Enumerated 9th June 1970
            > Family #405
            >
            > Bowers, Walter, age 22 - Male - White - Quarry Labor - born England
            > Bowers, Mary A., age 22 - Female - White - Keeping House -
            born
            > England - cannot write
            > Bowers, Alfred T., age 1 - Male - White - born England
            >
            > all three entries are checked off for father foreign born and
            mother
            > foreign born.
            >
            > I looked online, but could not find a death record for Mary Ann
            Bowers.
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Rebecca
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Could any kind person with privy to immigration lists from
            england to
            > > usa (dates above) perform a search for me?
            > > I am looking for my great grandfather Walter Bowers born 1848
            who
            > > emmigrated between the above dates, he had a son named William
            Henry
            > > Bowers who stated in later English census that he was born in
            > Portland
            > > Connecticut, the family came home before 1876 when my
            grandfather
            > > remarried, his first wife Mary Ann we presume had died in
            Portland.
            > > Also I am being cheeky here any USA census info' would be
            totally
            > > appreciated,
            > > best regards
            > > Glen (female)
            > > Lancashire England
            > >
            >
          • Tom Knox
            ... Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) - I wouldn t want to call William Henry Bowers a liar exactly, but I think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 15 12:54 PM
              > ... William Henry Bowers born 1873 Portland USA told a tale
              > to his grandchildren (my distant cousin through Walter)
              > that he was born in a covered wagon on the plains
              > and when he came back to England with his father ...

              Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) -
              I wouldn't want to call "William Henry Bowers" a liar exactly, but I
              think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if he was born
              in Portland, CT, USA (the state of Connecticut in the region of New
              England of the United States) (the location of the 1870 census of
              Walter & Mary Bowers), then he definitely was NOT "born in a covered
              wagon on the plains"! Connecticut is a LONG ways away from the Great
              Plains of the United States (over 1,000 miles away!), and
              Connecticut is a small state that would not be described as
              having "plains" at all! It sounds like he may have been confusing
              the location of Portland, Connecticut, on the EAST coast of America
              with Portland, Oregon, which is 3,000 miles away on the WEST coast
              of America, on the other side of the Great Plains! Or William may
              have simply been repeating stories told to HIM by his father Walter -
              after all, William H was no older than age 3 when he went back to
              England with his father Walter before 1877!
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut
              state of Connecticut - 70 miles wide by 110 miles long

              Noting the 1881 census with Thomas age 4 born England, then Walter
              Bowers must have returned to England before 1877. That time period
              (after William's birth in 1873 and before Walter's return to England
              before 1877) DOES give time for the possibility that Walter & Mary
              and infant William H *MAY HAVE* attempted a trip west in a covered
              wagon (With no clue of what happened to Alfred T). And if the Bowers
              family did attempt such a trip, then Mary and Alfred Bowers could be
              buried almost anywhere in the United States. However - I would still
              suggest looking near Portland, Connecticut, as the first possibility.

              This reminds me of someone I was helping with their genealogy (in
              Wisconsin, USA) - she INSISTED that her grandfather (deceased) was
              an immigrant from Germany and born in Berlin - after some digging,
              documentation showed that he was really second-generation American
              (of German ancestry) born in BERLIN, WISCONSIN (the "immigrant" part
              she must have assumed after originally assuming that her grandfather
              was born in BERLIN, GERMANY.)

              - Tom Knox IBSSG


              --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mr Tom Knox,
              > and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
              > research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not know
              > why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration details
              > but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
              > England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but I
              > researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was born
              > Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in
              Runcorn he was born almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann were
              married he may have been someone elses child and not Walters I have
              sent for his birth cert.
              > Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret Pope
              in 1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers
              born 1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my distant
              > cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on the
              > plains and when he came back to England with his father they had
              to leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if so
              was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or did
              > Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we will
              > never know I don't think, best regards for your help and interest,
              I will be letting you know if anything crops up
              > Glen.
            • glen
              Hello Tom Knox, I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from USA he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling? he died
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 16 8:42 AM
                Hello Tom Knox,
                I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from USA
                he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling?
                he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
                wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went off
                somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
                never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the covered
                wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
                c1873 his grandchildren reported,
                regards Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom
                Knox" <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
                >
                > > ... William Henry Bowers born 1873 Portland USA told a tale
                > > to his grandchildren (my distant cousin through Walter)
                > > that he was born in a covered wagon on the plains
                > > and when he came back to England with his father ...
                >
                > Hmmm, yes, well, okay (LOL!) -
                > I wouldn't want to call "William Henry Bowers" a liar exactly, but
                I
                > think that he was definitely stretching the truth - if he was born
                > in Portland, CT, USA (the state of Connecticut in the region of
                New
                > England of the United States) (the location of the 1870 census of
                > Walter & Mary Bowers), then he definitely was NOT "born in a
                covered
                > wagon on the plains"! Connecticut is a LONG ways away from the
                Great
                > Plains of the United States (over 1,000 miles away!), and
                > Connecticut is a small state that would not be described as
                > having "plains" at all! It sounds like he may have been confusing
                > the location of Portland, Connecticut, on the EAST coast of
                America
                > with Portland, Oregon, which is 3,000 miles away on the WEST coast
                > of America, on the other side of the Great Plains! Or William may
                > have simply been repeating stories told to HIM by his father
                Walter -
                > after all, William H was no older than age 3 when he went back to
                > England with his father Walter before 1877!
                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut
                > state of Connecticut - 70 miles wide by 110 miles long
                >
                > Noting the 1881 census with Thomas age 4 born England, then Walter
                > Bowers must have returned to England before 1877. That time period
                > (after William's birth in 1873 and before Walter's return to
                England
                > before 1877) DOES give time for the possibility that Walter & Mary
                > and infant William H *MAY HAVE* attempted a trip west in a covered
                > wagon (With no clue of what happened to Alfred T). And if the
                Bowers
                > family did attempt such a trip, then Mary and Alfred Bowers could
                be
                > buried almost anywhere in the United States. However - I would
                still
                > suggest looking near Portland, Connecticut, as the first
                possibility.
                >
                > This reminds me of someone I was helping with their genealogy (in
                > Wisconsin, USA) - she INSISTED that her grandfather (deceased) was
                > an immigrant from Germany and born in Berlin - after some digging,
                > documentation showed that he was really second-generation American
                > (of German ancestry) born in BERLIN, WISCONSIN (the "immigrant"
                part
                > she must have assumed after originally assuming that her
                grandfather
                > was born in BERLIN, GERMANY.)
                >
                > - Tom Knox IBSSG
                >
                >
                > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "glen" <glenfagan@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Mr Tom Knox,
                > > and thankyou for all your efforts, you are spot on with all your
                > > research, as Carly has helped with look ups too, now I do not
                know
                > > why Mary Ann Bowers yes nee Haddock hasn't any immigration
                details
                > > but I have their marriage cert they were married Halton Cheshire
                > > England 30th Sept 1869 Mary ann Haddock (was illigitimate), but
                I
                > > researched Alfred T Bowers birth myself and found that he was
                born
                > > Alfred Thomas Haddock illigitimate and born Jan 1/4 1869 in
                > Runcorn he was born almost 9 months before Walter and Mary Ann
                were
                > married he may have been someone elses child and not Walters I
                have
                > sent for his birth cert.
                > > Yes Tom .....you are right, Walter second married a Margaret
                Pope
                > in 1876 (cert) when he returned to England, William Henry Bowers
                > born 1873 Portland USA told a tale to his grandchildren (my
                distant
                > > cousin through Walter) that he was born in a covered wagon on
                the
                > > plains and when he came back to England with his father they had
                > to leave a child behind! sad tale, so did Mary Ann Bowers die? if
                so
                > was it in child birth/ and Walter could not bring a baby back or
                did
                > > Mary ann run off? and what happened to Alfred Thomas, well we
                will
                > > never know I don't think, best regards for your help and
                interest,
                > I will be letting you know if anything crops up
                > > Glen.
                >
              • Tom Knox
                Glen - ... That s something else that we may never know. Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned the trade while never leaving
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 16 1:42 PM
                  Glen -

                  > do you think he learned his trade travelling?

                  That's something else that we may never know.
                  Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned the
                  trade while never leaving Connecticut - and "rock work" also
                  requires blacksmiths -
                  - in 1870, Walter is listed as a "Quarry Laborer": he could have
                  started learning the blacksmith trade while working at the quarry,
                  or he could have learned the trade to get OUT of the quarry.

                  Some other resources:

                  BOWERS Genealogy Message Boards
                  http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/surnames.bowers
                  http://genforum.genealogy.com/bowers/

                  U.S. GenWeb http://www.usgenweb.com/
                  Connecticut http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctgenweb/
                  Middlesex County http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/midlsxco.htm
                  Portland, CT http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/Portland_Home.htm

                  - Tom Knox


                  --- In genealogyresearchclub@..., "glen" <glenfagan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Tom Knox,
                  > I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from
                  USA
                  > he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade travelling?
                  > he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
                  > wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went
                  off
                  > somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
                  > never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the
                  covered
                  > wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
                  > c1873 his grandchildren reported,
                  > regards Glen
                • glen
                  Hello Tom Knox, thankyou for all those links very kind of you Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Tom Knox ... the ... travelling?
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 2, 2006
                    Hello Tom Knox,
                    thankyou for all those links very kind of you
                    Glen.--- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knox"
                    <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Glen -
                    >
                    > > do you think he learned his trade travelling?
                    >
                    > That's something else that we may never know.
                    > Yes, horses & wagons need blacksmiths, but he could have learned
                    the
                    > trade while never leaving Connecticut - and "rock work" also
                    > requires blacksmiths -
                    > - in 1870, Walter is listed as a "Quarry Laborer": he could have
                    > started learning the blacksmith trade while working at the quarry,
                    > or he could have learned the trade to get OUT of the quarry.
                    >
                    > Some other resources:
                    >
                    > BOWERS Genealogy Message Boards
                    > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/an/surnames.bowers
                    > http://genforum.genealogy.com/bowers/
                    >
                    > U.S. GenWeb http://www.usgenweb.com/
                    > Connecticut http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctgenweb/
                    > Middlesex County http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/midlsxco.htm
                    > Portland, CT http://www.rootsweb.com/~ctmiddle/Portland_Home.htm
                    >
                    > - Tom Knox
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In genealogyresearchclub@, "glen" <glenfagan@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Tom Knox,
                    > > I agree with all you say..........but when Walter came back from
                    > USA
                    > > he was a blacksmith, do you think he learned his trade
                    travelling?
                    > > he died a blacksmith so he couldn't have been all that bad and
                    > > wagons needed horses and horses needed shoeing, I think he went
                    > off
                    > > somewhere whether it was with his wife and child Alfred we will
                    > > never know, but I do agree that it is poetic license re the
                    > covered
                    > > wagon and plains.........Only reporting what William Henry Bowers
                    > > c1873 his grandchildren reported,
                    > > regards Glen
                    >
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