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England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983

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  • Kellie
    Ok...I just updated my Ancestry.com subscription thinking that I could get someplace with a few lines. Well...I am geting somewhere, as long as I know a
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 6, 2006
      Ok...I just updated my Ancestry.com subscription thinking that I could
      get someplace with a few lines. Well...I am geting somewhere, as long
      as I know a surname in England...the only problem is...is the bride.
      For anyone that know how to use this database, did I do this right

      My couple is this

      HUSBAND
      Harry Stephens May
      Born: 21 Dec 1877
      [city], St Columb, Cornwall, England
      Died:
      [city], [county], South Dakota, USA

      WIFE
      Bertha
      Born: 1882
      [city], [parish], [county], England
      Died:
      [city], [county], South Dakota, USA

      THIER FIRST CHILD
      Lillian May F 16 Sep 1901 in [city], [parish], Cornwall, England

      Ok...now...I am looking at trying to find when the couple got married
      and the wifes maiden name. I found a Harry S May in the index as being
      married in the first quarter of 1901, in St.Columb, Cornwall, England.
      I then found a Bertha Kathleen Yelland married in that same first
      quarter of 1901 in St.Columb, Cornwall, England. They appear on
      different pages, but they are both in volume 5 c. Did I do it...did I
      find the right combination...is my Bertha's maiden name Yelland? I
      could ask my mother in law...but I need to know that I did this right
      for other lines too.

      Thank you

      Kellie
    • Ron Lahav
      Hello Kellie, Did you get this information from the British census records? You should check the 1871, 1881, and possibly 1891 census data for St Columb, which
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 7, 2006
        Hello Kellie,

        Did you get this information from the British census
        records? You should check the 1871, 1881, and possibly
        1891 census data for St Columb, which is available
        online. FYI, St Columb is a rather quaint little
        village although it has a great deal of rural poverty.
        During the time period in question it was one of the
        centres of the Cornish tin mining industry. If you
        would like further info on possible sources of family
        information I can try to get the name of the parish
        church for you. I would think however that in keeping
        with the 1974 Local Government Reorganisation Act most
        of the parish records, and also the Diocesan Records
        for the Diocese of Truro, would have been transferred
        to the Cornwall County Archives. Still, as your second
        port of call (the first being the census records) you
        should try the parish records. Wouyld you like me to
        do a bit of digging for you? You can then proceed as
        you wish on your own.

        Hope this helps.

        Ron in Geordieland

        --- Kellie <horsepoweredcrab@...> wrote:

        > Ok...I just updated my Ancestry.com subscription
        > thinking that I could
        > get someplace with a few lines. Well...I am geting
        > somewhere, as long
        > as I know a surname in England...the only problem
        > is...is the bride.
        > For anyone that know how to use this database, did I
        > do this right
        >
        > My couple is this
        >
        > HUSBAND
        > Harry Stephens May
        > Born: 21 Dec 1877
        > [city], St Columb, Cornwall, England
        > Died:
        > [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
        >
        > WIFE
        > Bertha
        > Born: 1882
        > [city], [parish], [county], England
        > Died:
        > [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
        >
        > THIER FIRST CHILD
        > Lillian May F 16 Sep 1901 in [city], [parish],
        > Cornwall, England
        >
        > Ok...now...I am looking at trying to find when the
        > couple got married
        > and the wifes maiden name. I found a Harry S May in
        > the index as being
        > married in the first quarter of 1901, in St.Columb,
        > Cornwall, England.
        > I then found a Bertha Kathleen Yelland married in
        > that same first
        > quarter of 1901 in St.Columb, Cornwall, England.
        > They appear on
        > different pages, but they are both in volume 5 c.
        > Did I do it...did I
        > find the right combination...is my Bertha's maiden
        > name Yelland? I
        > could ask my mother in law...but I need to know that
        > I did this right
        > for other lines too.
        >
        > Thank you
        >
        > Kellie
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • Tom Knox
        Kelly - ... Name: Harry Stephens May Year of Registration: 1901 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: St Columb County: Cornwall Volume: 5c Page: 153
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 7, 2006
          Kelly -

          Looking at that database at Ancestry.com, I find Harry twice:
          ----------
          Name: Harry Stephens May
          Year of Registration: 1901
          Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
          District: St Columb
          County: Cornwall
          Volume: 5c
          Page: 153
          ----------
          Name: Harry Stephens May
          Year of Registration: 1908
          Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
          District: St Columb
          County: Cornwall
          Volume: 5c
          Page: 149

          I disagree with your match of "Bertha Kathleen Yelland"
          because her entry is
          ----------
          Name: Bertha Kathleen Yelland
          Year of Registration: 1901
          Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
          District: St Columb
          County: Cornwall
          Volume: 5c
          Page: 141

          Notice that HER marriage registration is
          on page 141, while Harry's is on page 153.

          A hunch - Harry might have been married TWICE,
          and Lillian may have been a child of the
          FIRST marriage.

          In an Ancestry.com search, note that they
          often have a "Keyword(s)" field -
          usually, anything in the index is searchable
          from the "Keyword(s)" field.

          So, let's construct a special query -
          no first or last name,
          DISTRICT = ST COL*
          COUNTY = CORNWALL
          KEYWORD(S) = 1901 5C 153
          (from Harry's 1901 entry, volume 5c page 153)

          This query returns 5 names:
          Mary Beatrice Buscomb 1901 Apr-May-Jun
          Frederick Martyn 1901 Apr-May-Jun
          Rederick Martyn 1901 Apr-May-Jun
          Harry Stephens May 1901 Jan-Feb-Mar
          Mary Louisa Trethewey 1901 Jan-Feb-Mar

          The third entry is an obvious duplicate of the 2nd,
          so it appears that, in volume 5c on page 153,
          Mary Buscomb married Fred Martyn in Q2 of 1901, and
          Harry May married Mary Trethewey in Q1 of 1901.

          But what about BERTHA, you ask?!
          Okay - now let's try that same special query
          using the numbers from Harry's SECOND entry:
          no first or last name,
          DISTRICT = ST COL*
          COUNTY = CORNWALL
          KEYWORD(S) = 1908 5C 149

          This query returns 4 names:
          Mary Hewitt 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
          Bertha Liddicoat 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
          Harry Stephens May 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
          Rodney Bowden Willimont 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar

          This index tells us that these 4 people
          all got married in Q1 of 1908, and their names
          all appear on page 149 of volume 5c,
          but the index does NOT tells us
          WHO married WHO.

          BUT - since we're looking to match
          Harry Stephens May to a Bertha,
          it is logical to pick Bertha Liddicoat
          as his 1908 bride.

          BUT NOW - what happened to
          Mrs. (Harry) Mary Louisa Trethewey May?
          Here's where you try the Death Index.
          FIRST NAME = MARY
          LAST NAME = MAY
          COUNTY = CORNWALL
          DISTRICT = ST COL*

          22 hits - but only ONE after 1900:
          Name: Mary May
          Birth Date: abt 1851
          Year of Registration: 1906
          Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
          Age at death: 55
          District: St Columb
          County: Cornwall
          Volume: 5c
          Page: 48

          I am not convinced that this is necessarily
          Mary the first wife of Harry, because
          THIS Mary died at the age of 55 (born abt 1851).
          Or maybe Harry did actually marry an older woman.

          - Tom Knox IBSSG "Bloodhound"


          --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Kellie"
          <horsepoweredcrab@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ok...I just updated my Ancestry.com subscription thinking that I
          could get someplace with a few lines. Well...I am geting somewhere,
          as long as I know a surname in England...the only problem is...is
          the bride.
          > For anyone that know how to use this database, did I do this right
          >
          > My couple is this
          >
          > HUSBAND > Harry Stephens May
          > Born: 21 Dec 1877
          > [city], St Columb, Cornwall, England
          > Died: [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
          >
          > WIFE > Bertha
          > Born: 1882
          > [city], [parish], [county], England
          > Died: [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
          >
          > THIER FIRST CHILD
          > Lillian May F 16 Sep 1901 in [city], [parish], Cornwall, England
          >
          > Ok...now...I am looking at trying to find when the couple got
          married and the wifes maiden name. I found a Harry S May in the
          index as being married in the first quarter of 1901, in St.Columb,
          Cornwall, England.
          > I then found a Bertha Kathleen Yelland married in that same first
          > quarter of 1901 in St.Columb, Cornwall, England. They appear on
          > different pages, but they are both in volume 5 c. Did I do
          it...did I find the right combination...is my Bertha's maiden name
          Yelland? I could ask my mother in law...but I need to know that I
          did this right for other lines too.
          >
          > Thank you
          > Kellie
          >
        • Kellie
          Hi Ron, Thank you fro the info on St Columb. It made me do a search for St. Columb images on line :-) I found this info out both on the British and US census
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 7, 2006
            Hi Ron,

            Thank you fro the info on St Columb. It made me do a search for St.
            Columb images on line :-)

            I found this info out both on the British and US census records.

            I found out that there are 2 marriages actually for this Harry...one
            to Bertha(the second marriage), the wife he brought to the US with
            him, and a Mary(the first marriage), that looks like she died after
            the birth of the first child, Lillian.(was wondering why there were
            soo many years between the first and second child)

            Sure Ron...I would welcome any thing you can dig up on the more local
            level. Thank you

            Kellie


            --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lahav
            <shmendrik1812@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Kellie,
            >
            > Did you get this information from the British census
            > records? You should check the 1871, 1881, and possibly
            > 1891 census data for St Columb, which is available
            > online. FYI, St Columb is a rather quaint little
            > village although it has a great deal of rural poverty.
            > During the time period in question it was one of the
            > centres of the Cornish tin mining industry. If you
            > would like further info on possible sources of family
            > information I can try to get the name of the parish
            > church for you. I would think however that in keeping
            > with the 1974 Local Government Reorganisation Act most
            > of the parish records, and also the Diocesan Records
            > for the Diocese of Truro, would have been transferred
            > to the Cornwall County Archives. Still, as your second
            > port of call (the first being the census records) you
            > should try the parish records. Wouyld you like me to
            > do a bit of digging for you? You can then proceed as
            > you wish on your own.
            >
            > Hope this helps.
            >
            > Ron in Geordieland
          • Ron Lahav
            Hello Kellie, If you have been onto the British and American Census records, that s about all I can do for you. Parish and diocesan records in England and
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 8, 2006
              Hello Kellie,

              If you have been onto the British and American Census
              records, that's about all I can do for you. Parish and
              diocesan records in England and Wales were transferred
              to the various county archives after 1974. Would you
              like me to get the URL and e-mail address for the
              Duchy of Cornwall Archives? You can then contact them
              yourself and ask them any specific questions which you
              might have.

              Hope this helps.

              Ron in Geordieland


              > Thank you fro the info on St Columb. It made me do a
              > search for St.
              > Columb images on line :-)
              >
              > I found this info out both on the British and US
              > census records.
              >
              > I found out that there are 2 marriages actually for
              > this Harry...one
              > to Bertha(the second marriage), the wife he brought
              > to the US with
              > him, and a Mary(the first marriage), that looks like
              > she died after
              > the birth of the first child, Lillian.(was wondering
              > why there were
              > soo many years between the first and second child)
              >
              > Sure Ron...I would welcome any thing you can dig up
              > on the more local
              > level.

              __________________________________________________
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              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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            • Ron Lahav
              Hello Tom, Ee, Lad, Tha has done a reet fine piece o work there for yon Lass Kellie. Art tha livin here in Blighty also? Twas champion an puts me own efforts
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 8, 2006
                Hello Tom,

                Ee, Lad, Tha has done a reet fine piece o'work there
                for yon Lass Kellie. Art tha livin' here in Blighty
                also? 'Twas champion an puts me own efforts in
                th'shade.

                Best wishes,

                Ron in Geordieland

                --- Tom Knox <tomknox2001@...> wrote:

                > Kelly -
                >
                > Looking at that database at Ancestry.com, I find
                > Harry twice:
                > ----------
                > Name: Harry Stephens May
                > Year of Registration: 1901
                > Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
                > District: St Columb
                > County: Cornwall
                > Volume: 5c
                > Page: 153
                > ----------
                > Name: Harry Stephens May
                > Year of Registration: 1908
                > Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
                > District: St Columb
                > County: Cornwall
                > Volume: 5c
                > Page: 149
                >
                > I disagree with your match of "Bertha Kathleen
                > Yelland"
                > because her entry is
                > ----------
                > Name: Bertha Kathleen Yelland
                > Year of Registration: 1901
                > Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
                > District: St Columb
                > County: Cornwall
                > Volume: 5c
                > Page: 141
                >
                > Notice that HER marriage registration is
                > on page 141, while Harry's is on page 153.
                >
                > A hunch - Harry might have been married TWICE,
                > and Lillian may have been a child of the
                > FIRST marriage.
                >
                > In an Ancestry.com search, note that they
                > often have a "Keyword(s)" field -
                > usually, anything in the index is searchable
                > from the "Keyword(s)" field.
                >
                > So, let's construct a special query -
                > no first or last name,
                > DISTRICT = ST COL*
                > COUNTY = CORNWALL
                > KEYWORD(S) = 1901 5C 153
                > (from Harry's 1901 entry, volume 5c page 153)
                >
                > This query returns 5 names:
                > Mary Beatrice Buscomb 1901 Apr-May-Jun
                > Frederick Martyn 1901 Apr-May-Jun
                > Rederick Martyn 1901 Apr-May-Jun
                > Harry Stephens May 1901 Jan-Feb-Mar
                > Mary Louisa Trethewey 1901 Jan-Feb-Mar
                >
                > The third entry is an obvious duplicate of the 2nd,
                > so it appears that, in volume 5c on page 153,
                > Mary Buscomb married Fred Martyn in Q2 of 1901, and
                > Harry May married Mary Trethewey in Q1 of 1901.
                >
                > But what about BERTHA, you ask?!
                > Okay - now let's try that same special query
                > using the numbers from Harry's SECOND entry:
                > no first or last name,
                > DISTRICT = ST COL*
                > COUNTY = CORNWALL
                > KEYWORD(S) = 1908 5C 149
                >
                > This query returns 4 names:
                > Mary Hewitt 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
                > Bertha Liddicoat 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
                > Harry Stephens May 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
                > Rodney Bowden Willimont 1908 Jan-Feb-Mar
                >
                > This index tells us that these 4 people
                > all got married in Q1 of 1908, and their names
                > all appear on page 149 of volume 5c,
                > but the index does NOT tells us
                > WHO married WHO.
                >
                > BUT - since we're looking to match
                > Harry Stephens May to a Bertha,
                > it is logical to pick Bertha Liddicoat
                > as his 1908 bride.
                >
                > BUT NOW - what happened to
                > Mrs. (Harry) Mary Louisa Trethewey May?
                > Here's where you try the Death Index.
                > FIRST NAME = MARY
                > LAST NAME = MAY
                > COUNTY = CORNWALL
                > DISTRICT = ST COL*
                >
                > 22 hits - but only ONE after 1900:
                > Name: Mary May
                > Birth Date: abt 1851
                > Year of Registration: 1906
                > Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
                > Age at death: 55
                > District: St Columb
                > County: Cornwall
                > Volume: 5c
                > Page: 48
                >
                > I am not convinced that this is necessarily
                > Mary the first wife of Harry, because
                > THIS Mary died at the age of 55 (born abt 1851).
                > Or maybe Harry did actually marry an older woman.
                >
                > - Tom Knox IBSSG "Bloodhound"
                >
                >
                > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com,
                > "Kellie"
                > <horsepoweredcrab@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Ok...I just updated my Ancestry.com subscription
                > thinking that I
                > could get someplace with a few lines. Well...I am
                > geting somewhere,
                > as long as I know a surname in England...the only
                > problem is...is
                > the bride.
                > > For anyone that know how to use this database, did
                > I do this right
                > >
                > > My couple is this
                > >
                > > HUSBAND > Harry Stephens May
                > > Born: 21 Dec 1877
                > > [city], St Columb, Cornwall, England
                > > Died: [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
                > >
                > > WIFE > Bertha
                > > Born: 1882
                > > [city], [parish], [county], England
                > > Died: [city], [county], South Dakota, USA
                > >
                > > THIER FIRST CHILD
                > > Lillian May F 16 Sep 1901 in [city], [parish],
                > Cornwall, England
                > >
                > > Ok...now...I am looking at trying to find when the
                > couple got
                > married and the wifes maiden name. I found a Harry S
                > May in the
                > index as being married in the first quarter of 1901,
                > in St.Columb,
                > Cornwall, England.
                > > I then found a Bertha Kathleen Yelland married in
                > that same first
                > > quarter of 1901 in St.Columb, Cornwall, England.
                > They appear on
                > > different pages, but they are both in volume 5 c.
                > Did I do
                > it...did I find the right combination...is my
                > Bertha's maiden name
                > Yelland? I could ask my mother in law...but I need
                > to know that I
                > did this right for other lines too.
                > >
                > > Thank you
                > > Kellie
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


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              • Tom Knox
                To Kelly and Ron - Kelly - two marriages for Harry May (1901 and 1908) explains the anomaly in the 1930 census re age at first marriage - 1930 Springdale,
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 9, 2006
                  To Kelly and Ron -


                  Kelly -
                  two marriages for Harry May (1901 and 1908) explains the
                  anomaly in the 1930 census re "age at first marriage" -

                  1930 Springdale, Lincoln, SD
                  May, Harry S, head 52 married at age 21 born England emigrated 1910
                  (), Bertha, wife 48 married at age 26 born England emigrated 1911
                  (), Oliver, son 21 single born England emigrated 1911
                  (), Lilly, daughter 28 single born England emigrated 1911
                  (), Harry S/19:England, George/17:SD, Reginald/15:SD,
                  (), John/13:SD, Leslie/7:SD, Bert/5:SD,
                  (), Eliza J, mother 76 widow born England emigrated 1909

                  According to the 1930 census, Harry was married 31 years ago,
                  which would be circa 1899 - I think that whoever was reporting
                  this information for the 1930 census might have gotten either
                  Harry's age or "age at first marriage" incorrect.
                  And Bertha was married 22 years ago, which would be circa 1908 -
                  which matches the 1908 marriage in the "FreeBMD Marriage Index".

                  1920 Sioux Falls Ward 1, Minnehaha, SD
                  http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
                  htx=View&r=an&dbid=6061&iid=SDT625_1724-1112

                  BTW - I gave you the "long version" of the lookup and
                  a "look under the hood" at the special query.
                  When you do a query of these databases and then "View Record",
                  note that the Page number is hyperlinked and commented
                  "click to see others on page" - clicking that link
                  gets the same information as the special query
                  http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?
                  db=freebmdmarriage,&ti=0&f6=149&f7=1908&f8=Jan-Feb-Mar&f5=5c
                  Note that, dissecting the URL, the hyperlink is doing a query
                  using "149, 1908, Jan-Feb-Ma, 5c" - which is actually
                  a little more specific than MY special query.

                  Since the 1901 Census for England was taken on the night of
                  31 March 1901, I would expect that Harry & Mary should be
                  married together in the 1901 census (they were married Q1) -
                  unless the marriage was a secret one.


                  Ron -

                  LOL! Thanks for the praise.
                  That's how I acquired the nickname "Bloodhound" in
                  several other genealogy YGroups.
                  I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and am definitely
                  an American mutt of mixed breeds - the surname is
                  from Scotland (via Ireland and Canada), but my
                  family tree includes German, Polish, Austrian, French,
                  Pommern, Bohemian, English & Irish (and Scottish of course).
                  I do have several kilts in my closet, but no bagpipes.


                  - Tom Knox IBSSG "Bloodhound"


                  --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lahav
                  <shmendrik1812@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Tom,
                  >
                  > Ee, Lad, Tha has done a reet fine piece o'work there
                  > for yon Lass Kellie. Art tha livin' here in Blighty
                  > also? 'Twas champion an puts me own efforts in
                  > th'shade.
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  >
                  > Ron in Geordieland
                  >
                • Ron Lahav
                  Hello Tom, To take the last bit first, no marriages could have been either performed or registered secretly im the UK, either in 1901 or now. Second, the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 10, 2006
                    Hello Tom,

                    To take the last bit first, no marriages could have
                    been either performed or registered secretly im the
                    UK, either in 1901 or now. Second, the British Census
                    is always takewn on 31 March of the first year ending
                    in -1 in each decade. This is done because of the
                    great debate over whether the decade, century,
                    millennium etc begins at the =00 or -01 year.
                    Finally, FYI the garment is a kilt but the pattern or
                    design is the tartan.

                    Ron in Geordieland

                    > LOL! Thanks for the praise.
                    > That's how I acquired the nickname "Bloodhound" in
                    > several other genealogy YGroups.
                    > I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and am definitely
                    > an American mutt of mixed breeds - the surname is
                    > from Scotland (via Ireland and Canada), but my
                    > family tree includes German, Polish, Austrian,
                    > French,
                    > Pommern, Bohemian, English & Irish (and Scottish of
                    > course).
                    > I do have several kilts in my closet, but no
                    > bagpipes.


                    __________________________________________________
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                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                  • Tom Knox
                    Ron - 1) I was thinking of secret as in not known to the family or as not reported as married on the 1901 census . No such thing as running off and
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 10, 2006
                      Ron -

                      1) I was thinking of "secret" as in "not known to the family" or
                      as "not reported as married on the 1901 census". No such thing
                      as "running off and getting married" in England?

                      2) Ah!! Thank you - I always wondered why the Commonwealth censuses
                      were in the xxx1 year.

                      3) I wrote precisely - I do have several kilts (each of a different
                      tartan) in my closet (I am in a ceremonial color guard unit), plus
                      several pieces of tartan clothing (ties and such that I've been
                      given as gifts). I never learned the bagpipes, as there is NO such
                      thing as practicing the 'pipes QUIETLY! LOL!

                      4) You seem to have some knowledge of European sources. Sometime
                      when I have the time, I would like to re-visit my European brick-
                      walls and maybe get your assistance on names, locations, etc. - but
                      I have to first FIND that material! I've moved twice since I last
                      worked on those families.

                      - Tom Knox IBSSG


                      --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lahav
                      <shmendrik1812@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello Tom,
                      >
                      > To take the last bit first, no marriages could have
                      > been either performed or registered secretly im the
                      > UK, either in 1901 or now. Second, the British Census
                      > is always takewn on 31 March of the first year ending
                      > in -1 in each decade. This is done because of the
                      > great debate over whether the decade, century,
                      > millennium etc begins at the =00 or -01 year.
                      > Finally, FYI the garment is a kilt but the pattern or
                      > design is the tartan.
                      >
                      > Ron in Geordieland
                      >
                      > > LOL! Thanks for the praise.
                      That's how I acquired the nickname "Bloodhound" in several other
                      genealogy YGroups.
                      I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and am definitely an American mutt
                      of mixed breeds - the surname is from Scotland (via Ireland and
                      Canada), but my family tree includes German, Polish, Austrian,
                      French, Pommern, Bohemian, English & Irish (and Scottish of course).
                      I do have several kilts in my closet, but no bagpipes.
                    • Kellie
                      Hi Ron, Tom and all, You were right on there being a secret in the family. Harry had a first wife of Mary Louisa Trethewey, had daughter Lillian, then must
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 10, 2006
                        Hi Ron, Tom and all,

                        You were right on there being a "secret" in the family. Harry had a
                        first wife of Mary Louisa Trethewey, had daughter Lillian, then must
                        have died or got divorced, then a few years later married Bertha
                        Liddicoat, had a few more kids in England, then moved the family to
                        the US before having the last of the kids.

                        I did find how to find what the brides maiden name is...aslong as
                        there was only one, say, "Elizabeth" being married that
                        quarter...lol...Thank you Tom and Ron for all your help. Will ask when
                        I get stuck further...for right now I am on a roll now.

                        Kellie


                        --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Knox"
                        <tomknox2001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Ron -
                        >
                        > 1) I was thinking of "secret" as in "not known to the family" or
                        > as "not reported as married on the 1901 census". No such thing
                        > as "running off and getting married" in England?
                        >
                        > 2) Ah!! Thank you - I always wondered why the Commonwealth censuses
                        > were in the xxx1 year.
                        >
                        > 3) I wrote precisely - I do have several kilts (each of a different
                        > tartan) in my closet (I am in a ceremonial color guard unit), plus
                        > several pieces of tartan clothing (ties and such that I've been
                        > given as gifts). I never learned the bagpipes, as there is NO such
                        > thing as practicing the 'pipes QUIETLY! LOL!
                        >
                        > 4) You seem to have some knowledge of European sources. Sometime
                        > when I have the time, I would like to re-visit my European brick-
                        > walls and maybe get your assistance on names, locations, etc. - but
                        > I have to first FIND that material! I've moved twice since I last
                        > worked on those families.
                        >
                        > - Tom Knox IBSSG
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Ron Lahav
                        > <shmendrik1812@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Tom,
                        > >
                        > > To take the last bit first, no marriages could have
                        > > been either performed or registered secretly im the
                        > > UK, either in 1901 or now. Second, the British Census
                        > > is always takewn on 31 March of the first year ending
                        > > in -1 in each decade. This is done because of the
                        > > great debate over whether the decade, century,
                        > > millennium etc begins at the =00 or -01 year.
                        > > Finally, FYI the garment is a kilt but the pattern or
                        > > design is the tartan.
                        > >
                        > > Ron in Geordieland
                        > >
                        > > > LOL! Thanks for the praise.
                        > That's how I acquired the nickname "Bloodhound" in several other
                        > genealogy YGroups.
                        > I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and am definitely an American mutt
                        > of mixed breeds - the surname is from Scotland (via Ireland and
                        > Canada), but my family tree includes German, Polish, Austrian,
                        > French, Pommern, Bohemian, English & Irish (and Scottish of course).
                        > I do have several kilts in my closet, but no bagpipes.
                        >
                      • Ron Lahav
                        Hello Tom, Thanks for your note. The traditional way for English people to have secret marriages was to run off to Scotland, specifically to the village of
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 11, 2006
                          Hello Tom,

                          Thanks for your note. The traditional way for English
                          people to have secret marriages was to run off to
                          Scotland, specifically to the village of Gretna Green,
                          just over the border. Marriages there could be
                          celebrated by jumping over a broomstick or an anvil,
                          as Scottish civil marriages were registered in a
                          different format; now of course Gretna marriages are
                          performed in a Registry office just as in England, but
                          Scottish marriage laws are still different, and so is
                          the attitude of the Scottish Episcopal Church. This is
                          why the Prince of Wales chose to marry Mrs
                          Parker-Bowles in Scotland, and also why the Princess
                          Royal married Commodore Timothy Lawrence in Scotland.

                          The reason why I brought up the difference between a
                          tartan and a kilt is that most Americans don't know
                          the difference. Also, als you probably know, Scottish
                          women don't were kilts - these are purely men's
                          attire. Women will wear a long gown in their family
                          tartan with a scarp or sash tied over their left
                          shoulder (usually) and held with a clasp in the shape
                          of the clan badge. This is for formal occasions such
                          as balls etc; for ordinary wear. if they want to call
                          attention to their particular clan heritage they will
                          wear a scarf or a kerchief in the tartan. If you go
                          down to Sauciehall Street in Glesga or wander through
                          the douce lanes of Morningside in Edinburgh you will
                          not find that many Scots ladies wearing tartan,
                          however.

                          As for my knowledge of European sources, I have a bit
                          of knowledge of European history and thus can usually
                          put two and two together to come up with five.

                          Hope this helps.

                          Ron in Geordieland

                          --- Tom Knox <tomknox2001@...> wrote:

                          > Ron -
                          >
                          > 1) I was thinking of "secret" as in "not known to
                          > the family" or
                          > as "not reported as married on the 1901 census". No
                          > such thing
                          > as "running off and getting married" in England?
                          >
                          > 2) Ah!! Thank you - I always wondered why the
                          > Commonwealth censuses
                          > were in the xxx1 year.
                          >
                          > 3) I wrote precisely - I do have several kilts (each
                          > of a different
                          > tartan) in my closet (I am in a ceremonial color
                          > guard unit), plus
                          > several pieces of tartan clothing (ties and such
                          > that I've been
                          > given as gifts). I never learned the bagpipes, as
                          > there is NO such
                          > thing as practicing the 'pipes QUIETLY! LOL!
                          >
                          > 4) You seem to have some knowledge of European
                          > sources. Sometime
                          > when I have the time, I would like to re-visit my
                          > European brick-
                          > walls and maybe get your assistance on names,
                          > locations, etc. - but
                          > I have to first FIND that material! I've moved twice
                          > since I last
                          > worked on those families.
                          >
                          > - Tom Knox IBSSG
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Ron
                          > Lahav
                          > <shmendrik1812@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello Tom,
                          > >
                          > > To take the last bit first, no marriages could
                          > have
                          > > been either performed or registered secretly im
                          > the
                          > > UK, either in 1901 or now. Second, the British
                          > Census
                          > > is always takewn on 31 March of the first year
                          > ending
                          > > in -1 in each decade. This is done because of the
                          > > great debate over whether the decade, century,
                          > > millennium etc begins at the =00 or -01 year.
                          > > Finally, FYI the garment is a kilt but the pattern
                          > or
                          > > design is the tartan.
                          > >
                          > > Ron in Geordieland
                          > >
                          > > > LOL! Thanks for the praise.
                          > That's how I acquired the nickname "Bloodhound" in
                          > several other
                          > genealogy YGroups.
                          > I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and am definitely an
                          > American mutt
                          > of mixed breeds - the surname is from Scotland (via
                          > Ireland and
                          > Canada), but my family tree includes German, Polish,
                          > Austrian,
                          > French, Pommern, Bohemian, English & Irish (and
                          > Scottish of course).
                          > I do have several kilts in my closet, but no
                          > bagpipes.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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                        • Ron Lahav
                          Hello Kellie, Glad that I was able to help. Ron in Geordieland ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo!
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 11, 2006
                            Hello Kellie,

                            Glad that I was able to help.

                            Ron in Geordieland

                            > You were right on there being a "secret" in the
                            > family. Harry had a
                            > first wife of Mary Louisa Trethewey, had daughter
                            > Lillian, then must
                            > have died or got divorced, then a few years later
                            > married Bertha
                            > Liddicoat, had a few more kids in England, then
                            > moved the family to
                            > the US before having the last of the kids.
                            >
                            > I did find how to find what the brides maiden name
                            > is...aslong as
                            > there was only one, say, "Elizabeth" being married
                            > that
                            > quarter...lol...Thank you Tom and Ron for all your
                            > help. Will ask when
                            > I get stuck further...for right now I am on a roll
                            > now.


                            __________________________________________________
                            Do You Yahoo!?
                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                          • Tom Knox
                            Hi Kellie - You re welcome - I just *love* logic puzzles! And oftentimes, that s what genealogy is - finding pieces of the puzzle that fit together. And
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 12, 2006
                              Hi Kellie -

                              You're welcome - I just *love* logic puzzles!
                              And oftentimes, that's what genealogy is -
                              finding pieces of the puzzle that fit together.

                              And speaking of pieces of the puzzle -

                              1901 St Enoder, Cornwall, England
                              (incorrectly indexed as "Harry Stephens Mary")
                              Harry Stephens May, head married 23 born St Columb
                              Mary Louisa ("Do"=ditto), wife married 21 born St Enoder
                              http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?
                              indiv=1&gsfn=harry&gsln=&sx=&f1=Cornwall&f2=&f4=&f18=Male&f12=head&rg
                              _81004011__date=1877&rs_81004011__date=2&f27=&f14=&f15=&f7=&f8=&f9=&g
                              skw=&prox=1&db=uki1901&ti=0&ti.si=0&gss=angs-
                              d&fh=17&recid=17828659&recoff=1+14+15+22+34
                              http://tinyurl.com/e8hzx (gets to the same place)
                              http://content.ancestry.com/iexec/?
                              htx=view&r=an&dbid=7814&iid=CONRG13_2206_2208-0527
                              NOTE: I have already submitted a database correction to Ancestry.com
                              on the surname.

                              This brings up the possibility that Mary Louisa's age-at-death was
                              transcribed incorrectly, and that she was *not* age 55 born circa
                              1851 but instead was age *25* born circa 1881 - after all, a badly-
                              written "2" could be mistaken for a badly-written "5".

                              A possible birth-match for Mary Louisa -
                              which supports the possibility of an age-at-death error -
                              England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
                              Name: Mary Louisa Trethewey
                              Year of Registration: 1883 Apr-May-Jun
                              St Austell, Cornwall
                              Volume: 5c Page: 114

                              NOTE: "Mary L Trethewey" age 10 is in the
                              1891 census for St Enoder, Cornwall, England;
                              and "Harry S May" age 13 is in the
                              1891 census for St Columb Major, Cornwall, England.

                              - Tom Knox IBSSG "Bloodhound"


                              --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, "Kellie"
                              <horsepoweredcrab@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Ron, Tom and all,
                              >
                              > You were right on there being a "secret" in the family. Harry had
                              a first wife of Mary Louisa Trethewey, had daughter Lillian, then
                              must have died or got divorced, then a few years later married
                              Bertha Liddicoat, had a few more kids in England, then moved the
                              family to the US before having the last of the kids.
                              >
                              > I did find how to find what the brides maiden name is...aslong as
                              > there was only one, say, "Elizabeth" being married that
                              > quarter...lol...Thank you Tom and Ron for all your help. Will ask
                              when I get stuck further...for right now I am on a roll now.
                              >
                              > Kellie
                            • Kellie
                              Thank you again Tom for finding this census! I will Ron, let people know when I get stuck again. For the most part, I have my work cut out for me getting these
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 14, 2006
                                Thank you again Tom for finding this census!

                                I will Ron, let people know when I get stuck again. For the most part,
                                I have my work cut out for me getting these people documented. :-)

                                Kellie
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