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[Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?

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  • TinaS
    Names are changed for many different reasons. Some who came to the US did change their names to be more American. They choose their own names. I know this
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 2, 2010
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      Names are changed for many different reasons. Some who came to the US did change their names to be more American. They choose their own names. I know this because my husband's grandmother did this. I could find all of her records here in the US but could not find them in Holland. After talking to her, I finally found her birth record in Holland because I had her Dutch name. When my husband and I wanted to give our daughter a Dutch name, she became upset. She said she came to the US to be American and that we were to give our daughter an American name. Period.

      Others came to the US and had their names changed by the person who was recording the information. This could result from accents, lack of English language, pure laziness, or handwriting. Of course, there can be many more reasons. You must remember what Ellis Island was like. It is not like going through customs now.

      All females at the time had to be escorted. So they had to either be traveling with a male relative or be picked up by a male relative. They were horded through many passages like cattle after a long journey on the sea. There were seen by doctors to make sure they were not sick. They ran the risk of being turned away at the whim of people working there. Most just wanted to get through as fast as is possible so many felt hurt when names were changed but would never have spoken up in fear of being turned away. They had a dream of a better life her in America and just wanted to get started.

      Hope this helps in understanding that there are many reasons why names are changed.


      Tina

      --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Louise <glwrose@...> wrote:
      >
      > My husband's grandparents all came through Ellis Island and their names were changed there..they, themselves, did not change them. The names were not totally changed, but had a letter eliminated or had the last two letters switched and it was done by the person who recorded it, NOT by the persons themselves. Oh, and they all spoke English well enough to have hurt feelings when this was done to their names, which all had meanings and they took pride in. Maybe you had to be there to know.
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      > Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds.
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      > --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Joy Weaver <joyweave@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > From: Joy Weaver <joyweave@...>
      > Subject: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?
      > To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 7:28 AM
      >
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > I see repeated here the idea that the clerks at Ellis Island changed
      > people's names.
      >
      > No. The names you see on the manifests were written by ship's personnel
      > at the port of departure from lists of ticket purchasers. That's why
      > you will see names crossed out. Those are people who never boarded the
      > ship after buying the ticket. (Maybe they arrived at the port late due
      > to travel problems, etc.)
      >
      > People changed their own names after arrival or before boarding, but
      > Ellis Island clerks had nothing to do with it. Perhaps some stuck with
      > the spelling on the manifest because it was easier or because they
      > didn't know how to read or write their own names. Let's not forget that
      > millions of immigrants were illiterate or at least illiterate in English.
      >
      > That said, yes some of the misspellings were horrendous and even when
      > the spelling was ok, the handwriting of the ship's purser or whoever
      > wrote the lists was illegible to the people who transcribed them for the
      > Ellis Island website. My own favorite was a woman named Grunfeld who is
      > indexed as Ojrunfeld. If she hadn't been traveling with her
      > sister-in-law whose name I recognized, I'd never have found her.
      >
      > Joy Weaver
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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    • Walter Palmer
      ... My mother s father had his name changed by a teacher when he was in school He spelled it Boos and she told him it was Boose . The name is spelled both
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 2, 2010
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        On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Louise wrote:

        > My husband's grandparents all came through Ellis Island and their names were changed there..they, themselves, did not change them. The names were not totally changed, but had a letter eliminated or had the last two letters switched and it was done by the person who recorded it, NOT by the persons themselves. Oh, and they all spoke English well enough to have hurt feelings when this was done to their names, which all had meanings and they took pride in. Maybe you had to be there to know.
        >
        >
        My mother's father had his name changed by a teacher when he was in school He spelled it 'Boos' and she told him it was 'Boose'. The name is spelled both ways by his ancestors, sometimes by the same ancestor. They came from Basel, Switzerland and the name, in both forms, is extremely common. Grandpa was a fourth generation American - it's never too late.

        I am an attorney and used to volunteer helping people in Cook County, IL change their names. You haven't lived until you have sat across a desk from a 70 year old named "Boy Child --------". It's all coming out in the wash because they were given a 'proper' name after they left the hospital and have used it all their lives. Now they are applying for Social Security and passports. Things have become expensive in a post 9/11 world because they have to harmonize the name on the birth certificate with the name in the Social Security records. Government on all levels wants to use the exact name on the birth certificate.
      • DABennink
        More likely than not, the name was misspelled on the ship s manifest and the Ellis Island clerks used that spelling, as they were instructed to do. It was
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 2, 2010
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          More likely than not, the name was misspelled on the ship's manifest and the Ellis Island clerks used that spelling, as they were instructed to do. It was possible to have the misspelling corrected if one was adamant enough and made the concerted effort.. I am old enough to have known plenty of relatives and friends who came through there and when there was a name change issue, that was the problem. I have absolutely never spoken to a soul who had their name changed against their will by a clerk at Ellis Island. I had extensive conversations with a group of my grandmother's relatives and friends who came over here in the 20's about this very topic. They WERE there.

          Dawn


          From: Louise
          Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 12:00 PM
          To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?



          My husband's grandparents all came through Ellis Island and their names were changed there..they, themselves, did not change them. The names were not totally changed, but had a letter eliminated or had the last two letters switched and it was done by the person who recorded it, NOT by the persons themselves. Oh, and they all spoke English well enough to have hurt feelings when this was done to their names, which all had meanings and they took pride in. Maybe you had to be there to know.


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Joseph
          Does anyone have the website address for Ellis Island records? Joy, I knew Weaver s in Hagerstown, Maryland, and also here in Baxter County, Arkansas. One is
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 2, 2010
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            Does anyone have the website address for Ellis Island records?

            Joy, I knew Weaver's in Hagerstown, Maryland, and also here in Baxter
            County, Arkansas. One is one of our town's deputies.

            Joseph



            On 6/2/2010 7:28 AM, Joy Weaver wrote:
            > I see repeated here the idea that the clerks at Ellis Island changed
            > people's names.
            >
            > No. The names you see on the manifests were written by ship's personnel
            > at the port of departure from lists of ticket purchasers. That's why
            > you will see names crossed out. Those are people who never boarded the
            > ship after buying the ticket. (Maybe they arrived at the port late due
            > to travel problems, etc.)
            >
            > People changed their own names after arrival or before boarding, but
            > Ellis Island clerks had nothing to do with it. Perhaps some stuck with
            > the spelling on the manifest because it was easier or because they
            > didn't know how to read or write their own names. Let's not forget that
            > millions of immigrants were illiterate or at least illiterate in English.
            >
            > That said, yes some of the misspellings were horrendous and even when
            > the spelling was ok, the handwriting of the ship's purser or whoever
            > wrote the lists was illegible to the people who transcribed them for the
            > Ellis Island website. My own favorite was a woman named Grunfeld who is
            > indexed as Ojrunfeld. If she hadn't been traveling with her
            > sister-in-law whose name I recognized, I'd never have found her.
            >
            > Joy Weaver
            >
          • Joy Weaver
            This does not negate what I wrote, actually. The names were written at the port of departure, so that s where the spelling problem occurred. Your husband s
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 3, 2010
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              This does not negate what I wrote, actually. The names were written at
              the port of departure, so that's where the spelling problem occurred.
              Your husband's grandparents would not likely have seen the manifest
              until they landed and were being processed.

              Joy



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Louise
              My husband s grandfather always spelled his name correctly even though they had changed the last two letters. It was eventually spelled the incorrect way so
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 3, 2010
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                My husband's grandfather always spelled his name correctly even though they had changed the last two letters. It was eventually spelled the incorrect way so long and by so many that the younger ones accepted the new spelling but all the grave monuments have the correct spelling as that is, in some tiny way,  their final victory over those who tried to change the lovely name which had great meanings.





                Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds.









                --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Walter Palmer <walterpalmer@...> wrote:


                From: Walter Palmer <walterpalmer@...>
                Subject: Re: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?
                To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 11:39 AM


                 




                On Jun 2, 2010, at 11:00 AM, Louise wrote:

                > My husband's grandparents all came through Ellis Island and their names were changed there..they, themselves, did not change them. The names were not totally changed, but had a letter eliminated or had the last two letters switched and it was done by the person who recorded it, NOT by the persons themselves. Oh, and they all spoke English well enough to have hurt feelings when this was done to their names, which all had meanings and they took pride in. Maybe you had to be there to know.
                >
                >
                My mother's father had his name changed by a teacher when he was in school He spelled it 'Boos' and she told him it was 'Boose'. The name is spelled both ways by his ancestors, sometimes by the same ancestor. They came from Basel, Switzerland and the name, in both forms, is extremely common. Grandpa was a fourth generation American - it's never too late.

                I am an attorney and used to volunteer helping people in Cook County, IL change their names. You haven't lived until you have sat across a desk from a 70 year old named "Boy Child --------". It's all coming out in the wash because they were given a 'proper' name after they left the hospital and have used it all their lives. Now they are applying for Social Security and passports. Things have become expensive in a post 9/11 world because they have to harmonize the name on the birth certificate with the name in the Social Security records. Government on all levels wants to use the exact name on the birth certificate.











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Louise
                AMEN! Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds. ... From: TinaS Subject: [Genealogy Research
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 3, 2010
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                  AMEN!





                  Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds.









                  --- On Wed, 6/2/10, TinaS <tolksteel@...> wrote:


                  From: TinaS <tolksteel@...>
                  Subject: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?
                  To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 11:37 AM


                   



                  Names are changed for many different reasons. Some who came to the US did change their names to be more American. They choose their own names. I know this because my husband's grandmother did this. I could find all of her records here in the US but could not find them in Holland. After talking to her, I finally found her birth record in Holland because I had her Dutch name. When my husband and I wanted to give our daughter a Dutch name, she became upset. She said she came to the US to be American and that we were to give our daughter an American name. Period.

                  Others came to the US and had their names changed by the person who was recording the information. This could result from accents, lack of English language, pure laziness, or handwriting. Of course, there can be many more reasons. You must remember what Ellis Island was like. It is not like going through customs now.

                  All females at the time had to be escorted. So they had to either be traveling with a male relative or be picked up by a male relative. They were horded through many passages like cattle after a long journey on the sea. There were seen by doctors to make sure they were not sick. They ran the risk of being turned away at the whim of people working there. Most just wanted to get through as fast as is possible so many felt hurt when names were changed but would never have spoken up in fear of being turned away. They had a dream of a better life her in America and just wanted to get started.

                  Hope this helps in understanding that there are many reasons why names are changed.

                  Tina

                  --- In genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com, Louise <glwrose@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My husband's grandparents all came through Ellis Island and their names were changed there..they, themselves, did not change them. The names were not totally changed, but had a letter eliminated or had the last two letters switched and it was done by the person who recorded it, NOT by the persons themselves. Oh, and they all spoke English well enough to have hurt feelings when this was done to their names, which all had meanings and they took pride in. Maybe you had to be there to know.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Wed, 6/2/10, Joy Weaver <joyweave@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: Joy Weaver <joyweave@...>
                  > Subject: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?
                  > To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 7:28 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I see repeated here the idea that the clerks at Ellis Island changed
                  > people's names.
                  >
                  > No. The names you see on the manifests were written by ship's personnel
                  > at the port of departure from lists of ticket purchasers. That's why
                  > you will see names crossed out. Those are people who never boarded the
                  > ship after buying the ticket. (Maybe they arrived at the port late due
                  > to travel problems, etc.)
                  >
                  > People changed their own names after arrival or before boarding, but
                  > Ellis Island clerks had nothing to do with it. Perhaps some stuck with
                  > the spelling on the manifest because it was easier or because they
                  > didn't know how to read or write their own names. Let's not forget that
                  > millions of immigrants were illiterate or at least illiterate in English.
                  >
                  > That said, yes some of the misspellings were horrendous and even when
                  > the spelling was ok, the handwriting of the ship's purser or whoever
                  > wrote the lists was illegible to the people who transcribed them for the
                  > Ellis Island website. My own favorite was a woman named Grunfeld who is
                  > indexed as Ojrunfeld. If she hadn't been traveling with her
                  > sister-in-law whose name I recognized, I'd never have found her.
                  >
                  > Joy Weaver
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Louise
                  I am going by what they told of their own experiences. These people were from different  areas and did not arrive here at the same time nor on the same
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 4, 2010
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                    I am going by what they told of their own experiences. These people were from different  areas and did not arrive here at the same time nor on the same ship yet both families gave this account of the name changes happening once they got here. They said they were addressed by their correct names while on the ship so I have to believe what they said. I do not discount your knowledge but I also know we are all human and  when there are so many factors involved, different years, people who were at the departure points and here at Ellis Island, ships, etc, there will be more than oone story and they may all have validity to the particular person. it reminds me of the old parlor game where you start a sentence and pass it from person to person and by the time it gets back to the original person, not one word is the same as when it started.





                    Never forget that there is always a blue sky and shining sun above the darkest clouds.









                    --- On Thu, 6/3/10, Joy Weaver <joyweave@...> wrote:


                    From: Joy Weaver <joyweave@...>
                    Subject: [Genealogy Research Club] Re: ellis island ?
                    To: genealogyresearchclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thursday, June 3, 2010, 6:42 AM


                     



                    This does not negate what I wrote, actually. The names were written at
                    the port of departure, so that's where the spelling problem occurred.
                    Your husband's grandparents would not likely have seen the manifest
                    until they landed and were being processed.

                    Joy

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Joy Weaver
                    I agree that there were probably almost as many ways to change a name as there were people to do it. My posts were based on the information I have read on
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 5, 2010
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                      I agree that there were probably almost as many ways to change a name as
                      there were people to do it. My posts were based on the information I
                      have read on several different sites about how the immigrants were
                      listed and processed. A few links are copied below. They all say the
                      same thing, essentially.

                      Joy

                      > http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_island/a/name_change.htm

                      > http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/italian_genealogy/79248

                      > http://www.genealogy.com/genealogy/88_donna.html

                      > http://www.forward.com/articles/13017/






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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