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Re: Psychiatric Hospital Patients

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  • Lisa
    Deborah, I am sorry that you are having such trouble finding out any info. I have a similar problem.... in 1960 my mom and dad had a baby that died while being
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 18, 2008
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      Deborah,
      I am sorry that you are having such trouble finding out any info. I
      have a similar problem.... in 1960 my mom and dad had a baby that
      died
      while being born (from what I understand she was breach and the
      embilical cord choked her). They knocked my mother out for 3 days
      and
      when she woke up they told her that the baby had died and that the
      hospital took care of burying her. Her name was Grace Ann Hackenburg
      and I think she was born at frankford hospital in philadelphia. We
      have no idea where she is buried because the hospital basically
      buried
      all of the babies that died together. My mom does not even like to
      talk about it. It was her first child. She doesn't have any (or
      won't divulge any) other details. So I know that feeling, just
      wondering where she was buried.
      I never even thought to check for a death certificate on her...isn't
      that strange...well it kind of was like she didn't exist when we were
      growing up, we knew about her but didn't talk about it.
      Good luck on your search for information, I really do hope that you
      get
      the answers you are searching for.
      Lisa H.




      --- In genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah" <debcog@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > My epileptic aunt was given to the State of NJ by her siblings and
      > resided in Trenton State Psychiatric Hospital. I have her birth
      and
      > her 1969 death certificat(s). I have contacted the hospital
      several
      > times to inquire where she was buried, cremated or anything and
      they
      > have never been able to provide me with anything. They do not seem
      to
      > know if there is a plot that I can check on for the hospital. Does
      > anyone have any ideas that may assist me?
      >
    • annystokes
      Oh Lisa .... I m horrified at how these things were/are handled. It actually makes me angry. Your mother probably wasn t even given a picture of her precious
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 18, 2008
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        Oh Lisa .... I'm horrified at how these things were/are handled. It actually makes me angry.

        Your mother probably wasn't even given a picture of her precious Grace Ann. I would imagine your mother has been a bit 'stuck' in her grief and anger about it. And the questions ... she probably has wondered if it was somehow her fault. I know -- breach isn't anybody's fault, but you know how the mind of a mother works : )) I'd love for your mother to find a pastor who understands grief to help her walk it through - even though it's been 48, it doesn't matter. My husband helped his grandmother walk through the feelings about her mother's death when his grandmother was only 12. She had *never* told anyone how she blamed herself -- all b/c of some misspoken words by the doctor about praying & having faith for her mother to get well. She didn't get well and his grandmother blamed herself for over 60 yrs. He was able to have just one conversation with her about it -- to explain the truth & her heart was literally set free from that terrible, deep burden.

        That's not the purpose of this website, but thought I'd share that little story.

        Plus, you got 'cheated' to not have Grace Ann be an open, loving subject. This has happened with relatives of mine around the death of my little brother. My children told their cousins about Uncle John -- they'd never heard of him from my brothers. Silly things we do as frail human beings in imperfect loving families : ))

        As for the hospital "taking care of" these dear babies ... I know they're trying to help, and alleviate a burial expense for a grieving family, but geeeee .... To knock a mother out for 3 days (I would be willing to bet it was not medically necessary) ... yikes. The daughter of a lifetime friends of ours had a baby a few months ago who died about 5 hrs after birth. The parents had gone through the same thing (and it was handled much like with your mother), so the dad took his son-in-law aside and told him to spend as much time as possible with that dear baby, to hold her (her name was "Patience"), etc. The son-in-law was reluctant and then the father said, "Trust me, son, you will regret it deeply if you don't. It'll be OK. We'll help you both through it." They did. The difference in the aftermath is remarkable. Just as brokenhearted ... but no regrets ... and Patience Marie was able to be loved on during her 5 short hours - dying in her mother's loving arms.

        If you can find a burial site, it would be an idea to visit it -- put a flower on it -- finish out a bit of what wasn't done before.

        My .02 and more than anyone wanted to know : ))

        Anny
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Lisa
        To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:25 AM
        Subject: [genchatfriends] Re: Psychiatric Hospital Patients


        Deborah,
        I am sorry that you are having such trouble finding out any info. I
        have a similar problem.... in 1960 my mom and dad had a baby that
        died
        while being born (from what I understand she was breach and the
        embilical cord choked her). They knocked my mother out for 3 days
        and
        when she woke up they told her that the baby had died and that the
        hospital took care of burying her. Her name was Grace Ann Hackenburg
        and I think she was born at frankford hospital in philadelphia. We
        have no idea where she is buried because the hospital basically
        buried
        all of the babies that died together. My mom does not even like to
        talk about it. It was her first child. She doesn't have any (or
        won't divulge any) other details. So I know that feeling, just
        wondering where she was buried.
        I never even thought to check for a death certificate on her...isn't
        that strange...well it kind of was like she didn't exist when we were
        growing up, we knew about her but didn't talk about it.
        Good luck on your search for information, I really do hope that you
        get
        the answers you are searching for.
        Lisa H.

        --- In genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah" <debcog@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > My epileptic aunt was given to the State of NJ by her siblings and
        > resided in Trenton State Psychiatric Hospital. I have her birth
        and
        > her 1969 death certificat(s). I have contacted the hospital
        several
        > times to inquire where she was buried, cremated or anything and
        they
        > have never been able to provide me with anything. They do not seem
        to
        > know if there is a plot that I can check on for the hospital. Does
        > anyone have any ideas that may assist me?
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • April_Anastasia
        Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom.   ~april     I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once! ... From:
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 18, 2008
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          Thank you for sharing your words of wisdom.

           
          ~april
           
           
          "I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once!"



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: annystokes <annystokes@...>
          To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 12:59:39 PM
          Subject: Re: [genchatfriends] Re: Psychiatric Hospital Patients


          Oh Lisa .... I'm horrified at how these things were/are handled. It actually makes me angry.

          <snipped for brevity>>
          My .02 and more than anyone wanted to know : ))

          Anny

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • P Hammond
          I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 26, 2008
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            I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.
            Pam
          • Debbie Genealogy
            Pam, Please keep in mind that those detailed meticulous records you kept may have been destroyed. My medical group had signs up in several offices welcoming
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 26, 2008
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              Pam,
              Please keep in mind that those detailed meticulous records you kept may have been destroyed. My medical group had signs up in several offices welcoming patients from another medical group and in fine print it stated the long complicated and short deadline how patients who were NOT signing up with our group had to follow or their records would be destoyed. How these brainac's decided that posting the notice at a medical office that they wouldn't likely be visiting is beyond me, but I guess their lawyers felt it was legal.

              --- On Thu, 6/26/08, P Hammond <pompam3@...> wrote:
              From: P Hammond <pompam3@...>
              Subject: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients
              To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:49 AM











              I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.

              Pam





























              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • annystokes
              Pam -- I m so glad to get this info even though I m not the one searching. I hadn t thought of court records or the city cemetery. Good to know -- I hope I
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 26, 2008
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                Pam -- I'm so glad to get this info even though I'm not the one searching. I hadn't thought of court records or the city cemetery. Good to know -- I hope I can retain this information for the next time I need this kind of information.

                Hopefully this will give Deborah the direction she needed for her search since her aunt was given to the state of NJ and resided in the Trenton State Psychiatric facility.

                My brother was in a private institution in Houston, TX. It is no longer around. My brother was a baby, but he wasn't ever made a ward of the state. I would think a power of medical attorney was given to the hospital?? I would love very much to find the day-to-day records on his short life (14 mos). Do private institutions/hospitals have to keep these records archives forever? I know we looked for hospital records for my father-in-law (died in 1953), but they said it was too long ago and the records had been destroyed. As it turned out, his Army history during WWII had been destroyed in a warehouse fire in the 70's. If only we'd started looking sooner : (

                Thanks,

                Anny


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: P Hammond
                To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:49 AM
                Subject: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients


                I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.
                Pam





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • annystokes
                You know, this happened to me. My OB/Gyn retired. There was a short period in which we could get our records as no particular doctor was obtaining them. I
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 26, 2008
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                  You know, this happened to me. My OB/Gyn retired. There was a short period in which we could get our records as no particular doctor was obtaining them. I lost that letter, so I tried to contact the doctor -- well, there's no contact information anywhere. I think she probably put all the records in storage, but I can't find how to contact her about it!

                  Ugh. One would think having a P.O. Box listed for future correspondence would be a good idea.

                  Anny

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Debbie Genealogy
                  To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:04 PM
                  Subject: [genchatfriends] Hospital/Medical Records thought


                  Pam,
                  Please keep in mind that those detailed meticulous records you kept may have been destroyed. My medical group had signs up in several offices welcoming patients from another medical group and in fine print it stated the long complicated and short deadline how patients who were NOT signing up with our group had to follow or their records would be destoyed. How these brainac's decided that posting the notice at a medical office that they wouldn't likely be visiting is beyond me, but I guess their lawyers felt it was legal.

                  --- On Thu, 6/26/08, P Hammond <pompam3@...> wrote:
                  From: P Hammond <pompam3@...>
                  Subject: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients
                  To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:49 AM

                  I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.

                  Pam











                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • April_Anastasia
                  Simply print out the email for your hard files and then you won t have to rely on your memory!  :-)   ~april     I try to take one day at a time, but
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 27, 2008
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                    Simply print out the email for your hard files and then you won't have to rely on your memory!  :-)

                     
                    ~april
                     
                     
                    "I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once!"



                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: annystokes <annystokes@...>
                    To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:35:19 PM
                    Subject: Re: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients


                    Pam -- I'm so glad to get this info even though I'm not the one searching. I hadn't thought of court records or the city cemetery. Good to know -- I hope I can retain this information for the next time I need this kind of information.

                    Hopefully this will give Deborah the direction she needed for her search since her aunt was given to the state of NJ and resided in the Trenton State Psychiatric facility.

                    My brother was in a private institution in Houston, TX. It is no longer around. My brother was a baby, but he wasn't ever made a ward of the state. I would think a power of medical attorney was given to the hospital?? I would love very much to find the day-to-day records on his short life (14 mos). Do private institutions/ hospitals have to keep these records archives forever? I know we looked for hospital records for my father-in-law (died in 1953), but they said it was too long ago and the records had been destroyed. As it turned out, his Army history during WWII had been destroyed in a warehouse fire in the 70's. If only we'd started looking sooner : (

                    Thanks,

                    Anny

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: P Hammond
                    To: genealogychatfriend s@yahoogroups. com
                    Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:49 AM
                    Subject: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients

                    I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.
                    Pam

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • annystokes
                    Will have to do that as soon as I get a new ink cartridge : ) Thanks for the reminder to do that! Anny ... From: April_Anastasia To:
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 27, 2008
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                      Will have to do that as soon as I get a new ink cartridge : ) Thanks for the reminder to do that!

                      Anny

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: April_Anastasia
                      To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 8:39 AM
                      Subject: Re: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients


                      Simply print out the email for your hard files and then you won't have to rely on your memory! :-)


                      ~april


                      "I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes several days attack me at once!"

                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: annystokes <annystokes@...>
                      To: genealogychatfriends@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 2:35:19 PM
                      Subject: Re: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients

                      Pam -- I'm so glad to get this info even though I'm not the one searching. I hadn't thought of court records or the city cemetery. Good to know -- I hope I can retain this information for the next time I need this kind of information.

                      Hopefully this will give Deborah the direction she needed for her search since her aunt was given to the state of NJ and resided in the Trenton State Psychiatric facility.

                      My brother was in a private institution in Houston, TX. It is no longer around. My brother was a baby, but he wasn't ever made a ward of the state. I would think a power of medical attorney was given to the hospital?? I would love very much to find the day-to-day records on his short life (14 mos). Do private institutions/ hospitals have to keep these records archives forever? I know we looked for hospital records for my father-in-law (died in 1953), but they said it was too long ago and the records had been destroyed. As it turned out, his Army history during WWII had been destroyed in a warehouse fire in the 70's. If only we'd started looking sooner : (

                      Thanks,

                      Anny

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: P Hammond
                      To: genealogychatfriend s@yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:49 AM
                      Subject: [genchatfriends] Re:Psychiatric Hospital Patients

                      I am a nurse; all hospitals are required to keep detailed records. Records that old will be in an archived records somewhere, I would think. Otherwise the hospital may be state owned; find out. Records may be in some court records. Also find out where the city cemetary is located. They will have records of everone who is buried there. If she was declared a ward of the state because she was "indegent" or on disability for her illness that will probaby be where she is buried. Good luck and keep us informed.
                      Pam

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michele Vietz
                      Hi Folks!   I don t contribute much but I have the following information to share on Psychiatric Hospital Patients.   I m from North Dakota & we had an
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 27, 2008
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                        Hi Folks!
                         
                        I don't contribute much but I have the following information to share on Psychiatric Hospital Patients.
                         
                        I'm from North Dakota & we had an institution called San Haven. Originally, it was a place to take tuberculosis (TB) patients. Many of these patients were of average intelligence or higher. Unfortunately, relatives just left their family members, never to come back again. Some years later, San Haven became a mental institution. The worst of the worst patients were at this place. The TB patients became "institutionalized". By default, they remained at San Haven. Where else were they to go if family did not pick them up? 
                         
                        Sooooooo, what places in your states may have started out as a place to take TB patients & end up being mental institutions.
                         
                        Michele aka Veetzy
                         

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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